Need help with capital 'D' Difficult sister

[Sabine]

hello all,
i have a very difficult N sister who keeps pressuring me to have a relationship with her.  in the past she didn't think about me at all or she would call to use me as a sound board for all her crazy rationalizations.  but now that she thinks she's changed (i don't believe it for a second) she seems to want to prove something to me.  to me it is obvious that nothing is different because of the way she is so aggressively pursuing me (why not just let me contact her if i want to see her?). she demands that i "let certain ideas based in the past go" (using the jargon of mindfulness meditation to manipulate reality!! unbelievable!!), and i had to remind her that my ideas actually weren't about the past but reflections on recent events.  i decided not to go into detail with her because i know, from experience, that she will not listen or understand.  anyway, now she wanted me to come to my mother's house on thanksgiving weekend because she would be there (in canada this is tommorrow!! you guys are all lucky that you don't have to deal with this yet!!!).  i said no. she wrote back in an email, "okay, so you can't go to moms. why don't i come down to your place beforehand and we'll have coffee."  i never said i couldn't go to mom's, but that was her interpretation.  for some reason i said yes to her coming over, maybe to prove to myself that i can handle her now. however, i am finding that i am not sure about what i should do/say...how i should respond to her narcissism. i refuse to be fake....especially because that may lead her to develop expectations (she already has a few, i'm sure).  i am pretty sure that she will start trying to pressure me to meet her new fabulous boyfriend. she really wants me to meet him so that i can see what a catch he is and so that he can see how "cool" i am, nd so that she can ultimately feel something like pride --  typical childish fantasy thinking on her part.  i have no desire to meet her boyfriend. i have no desire to be part of her game!!! i have no desire to build a relationship with her.  what do i say?  i am thinking of saying, "we'll see" and if she persists then i will simply be blunt....but then i see this going awry:  i don't want to meet your boyfriend. (why not?)  because i don't think you have changed and i don't see us having a relationship.  however, if i don't say that then i will have to make excuses and that is something i don't want to do either. in the past i have said things in a less than honest way (i don't even have a relationship with you so why should i want to see your boyfriend? -- when  i said this she just got more persistent about getting close to me!!). 

i'm sorry i haven't given you all the full background story. i tried to write it but i got so exhausted in the process.  i am thinking that i should just stick to my policy of affirming reality without being intentionally hurtful or malicious.  if she reacts badly then there is nothing i can do. she's not going to get a rise out of me. but i also think there should be a limit to my explanations.  i don't think you've changed. i have my reasons. end of story. what do you think?? 

i don't even know what the heck we are going to talk about (other than herself...that is a given). but i don't want to just sit there talking about her, but i also definitely don't want to open up and talk about anything personal. i'll have to think about it...

i will definitely let you know how it works out.

sabine

[Portia]

Hi sabine

don't even know what the heck we are going to talk about (other than herself...that is a given).

think you answered your own question!

 but i don't want to just sit there talking about her

It might be boring, it might be annoying: on the other hand, how about if you really try very hard at listening to what’s under the talk? See if you can see anything that would be interesting to you? And ask her about whatever that is. If you can stand it!

but i also definitely don't want to open up and talk about anything personal.

Don’t! Maybe have a list of topics you can switch to in your mind. Clothes you’ve bought/books you’ve read/ films etc. Other people you know.

Good luck.

[Sabine]

Thanks for your advice, Portia!  I think it is very sensible.  I just have this fear of being backed into a corner and saying things I might later regret.  I sometimes come across as very blunt and defensive -- for very understandable reasons, I might add.  I think I just have to trust myself in the moment and refuse to have regrets about what I say or don't say (easier said than done).

I am thinking that rather than saying something like "No, I'm not going to do X because I don't trust you" or something similar, I will say something more like, "No, I'm not going to do X. You just need to accept that." If she persists then I will have to be more candid about my feelings but no justifications (these things are so difficult to remember when you are in the heat of the moment).  Bottom line is I have to get away from trying to convince others that my position is reasonable (I have this pathological urge to seek the understanding of people -- my family -- despite knowing that they can never ever possibly understand my p.o.v.). I know my mom is disappointed that I don't talk to my sister and every now and then she makes remarks. I feel compelled to say things like, "Mom, [sister] is crazy. I can't build a relationship with a crazy person.  As much as I would like a relationship with her (were she normal) it is not possible."  My mom doesn't listen. Ever. But for some reason I can't stop seeking approval.  Anyway, I'm rambling now.  Thanks for listening!!

[mudpuppy]

She wants to come over for coffee right?

Well it is my understanding that rat poison is completely tasteless in coffee.
Then you'll have something to give thanks for.

mud

(Just kidding folks. Pretty much, anyway.)

[WRITE]

Have you been reading Miss Marple again Mudpuppy! Those are dangerous books...

i have no desire to build a relationship with her.

oh, that seems to be what you're having difficulty with? You don't want any relationship, she wants a close one- big disparity?

You can soften that with people by saying you don't want a relationship now or it's nothing personal it's about you...but most people don't receive it well

why not just let me contact her if i want to see her?).

same reason you are worrying about what to do or say - the agitation of ambivalence, wanting resolution whilst trying to avoid conflict?

Most people don't want to be mean or appear mean and go to great lengths to avoid it.

Why not cancel the meeting as S & S suggests and then talk to her when you've worked out what to say- or just be prepared to ignore her until she gets the message.

I find for me the more honest I can be the better- I just get upset if I am unpleasant, and end up capitulating because I was unreasonable myself- so if I was feeling brave I'd say something like 'you are scaring me with your heavy approach'.

If she really doesn't hear you though no matter what you do you can only disengage.

she's not going to get a rise out of me

I wouldn't worry too much about this, or how other people might see things, that's just people's reactions when they're trying to save face etc. Be strong about yourself- you don't have to be available for everyone!

i don't want to just sit there talking about her, but i also definitely don't want to open up and talk about anything personal.

take a book or something you absolutely must get read or studied and excuse yourself!

Or get used to sitting in silence and not worrying about discomfort- there's a plaque right behind me which says 'silence answers much'! Then you won't do

I feel compelled to say things like....

I found basic meditation techniques good with this- my bipolar means agitation just mushrooms sometimes.

Take care, it's nice you are thinking about this, a lot of people would be buying rat poison by now....and as one of life's more forceful people when I get on a manic mission I am lucky not to have been poisoned a few times myself! 
 

[Sabine]

To all of you: thank you so much for your thoughts.  I think you guys are right: I know what I have to do but needed some confirmation that what I plan to do is okay because I am terrified of messing it all up and feeling powerless. I often have dreams where I am struggling against shadowy people who have passed judgment on me.  After I finally stopped speaking to my father I had waking dreams (nightmares?) that one day he and the rest of the family were going to come to my house and corner me in a room and somehow convince me that I was wrong to do what I'd done (this would never actually happen in reality but I felt that it could and that I wasn't "free").

I just know, like you've said,  that whatever I say or do she will not understand, and I have to be okay with that.  In the past I always assumed that when my family didn't understand what I said or did that I was flawed and unreasonable. So I have a habit of doubting myself when ever I get a blank stare, a denial, or a putdown.  In response I would try to explain or justify myself, only getting more blank stares, denials, putdowns.  At this point I would feel horrible... The fact is that I thought if I couldn't convince them that my point of view was acceptable, then it wasn't. 

My goal with this meeting tommorrow is to practice standing my ground and not allowing her to make me feel uncomfortable. After this, no more sister for a long, long time!

We'll see how it goes...

Sabine

[Hopalong]

Sabine, I think you're brave and insightful and have identified exactlly what you need to do.

I think you sound strong, too.

Good luck! (and welcome)

Hopalong

[WRITE]

I have a habit of doubting myself when ever I get a blank stare, a denial, or a putdown.  In response I would try to explain or justify myself, only getting more blank stares, denials, putdowns.  At this point I would feel horrible... The fact is that I thought if I couldn't convince them that my point of view was acceptable, then it wasn't. 

if she has NPD and you are the one who gets the brunt of it don't be surprised if no one listens or believes you on it. I have been unable to explain my ex's NPD to his sister or my sister ( both well-qualified nurses ) even though he himself admits it and is in therapy and his sister and I have talked at length on it because she says her daughter has similar behavioural traits; and my sister knows every single thing ever happened between us and still can only see him as either 'good' or 'evil' depending on what he has been doing around the time of that phone call!

People just don't get personality disorder and either 'forget' about it after you tell them or tune you out.

The only people I have ever been able to talk about it consistently to have been here or the two friends in real life who are dealing with it.

How will the rest of your family react to 'no more sister for a long, long time'?

i am thinking that i should just stick to my policy of affirming reality without being intentionally hurtful or malicious.

I think this is a great plan.

Your reality is important and- real!

I don't share a total reality with any of our family- in fact the reality between my N ex is closer to mine than some of them; it took me years to realise it didn't matter and it was up to me to set the tone of my own life.

Hope tomorrow is ok: family get-togethers are so often a real life nuisance, the sooner they are illegal without formal notarised 'consent to attend and behave like a grown up' forms, the better.

[teartracks]

(((((((Sabine))))))))

I am so wishing good things to happen in your meeting with your sister.

teartracks

[Portia]

Hi Sabine, just wondered if you wanted to catch up, whether it went well or badly or whatever. If you want to. Take care!

[Hops]

Write, you WIT:

family get-togethers...the sooner they are illegal without formal notarised 'consent to attend and behave like a grown up' forms, the better.

    Thanks for that!

Sabine, hope it went well and you came out with no toothmarks.

Hops

[penelope]

hiya sabine,

I read your posts with a panged expression, whilst a migraine grew.  Not sure which sister I am more like, you or your sis.  Anyhoo, I know how painful this is, either way.  Genetics throws you together when there's really nothing you'd like to talk about.  ick 

Is it an option to not have this relationship?  Just wondering if you can "agree to disagree" or something along those lines.  Maybe your sister is just as uncomfortable as you are, in other words.  Could you ask her:  ya know, I've always felt our conversations were strained, what do you say we try to limit them to the weather and [some TV show you both agree on and watch?].  I know it works in working relationships, to keep people less annoyed with one another.  There are "safe" topics, in other words.  Family, politics and religion are unsafe.   

Please check back in and let us know how you're doing.


hugs
bean