Phobias

[Portia]

PP - transforming:

Can rewrite you please?

It shouldn't even be about me.  I should already exist and not be worrying about me.  I should have been discovering him and accepting him from day one.

In a perfect world, it wouldn’t even be about me, but well, that’s how it is. If things had been different, I probably would have had a stronger sense of ‘me’ and wouldn’t be worrying about it, but the great thing is, I am aware of needing to be me and that’s wonderful.

In a parallel life there’s a me that has been discovering and accepting my son since day one: and maybe in another parallel life there’s another me that went a different route and is now totally estranged from him. I’m glad I’m where I am now and have the opportunity to get to understand him, glad I’m on the journey!

Hope you don’t mind a bit of word-transforming…?

Cool tattoo story. I might have one when I'm old enough. About age 60 I reckon. I might be loosened up enough by then (mentally, not physically..altho physically I will be no doubt...)

[Brigid]

Portia and Storm,
I feel very much the opposite about the snake and mouse thing.  If we're talking bunnies, then I feel differently, but mice can be eaten by anything and I'm OK with that.  I would feel the same about rats, even more so. 

Portia, I'm not so sure that mice would be higher on the species intelligence chart than snakes. I don't honestly know.  Reptiles can be trained to a degree, I think.  I've never owned one, but I had a boyfriend in college with a boa constrictor and I used to love to have it crawl up my arm and wrap itself around me.  I have no fear at all where snakes are concerned.

P, you were also talking about the air quality in airplanes.  I just heard a story on the news about that recently.  They have air exchangers on airplanes that redistribute the air every 1/2 hour or so.  When tested, the air quality on a plane was much better than in an office building, where they have no air exchangers and windows are rarely opened.

Hops,
Regarding the tattoo--I agree with Beth that getting a tattoo to form a connection with your daughter is not really a good reason, or one she would be in favor of.  If you want to do it for you, then by all means get some ink, but she should not be the reason.

I say now that I would never get a tattoo, but then I'm sure at some point I also said that I would never don leathers and ride a Harley and we know how that turned out.  So, never say never--but I don't even have a second set of ear piercings yet, so I've got some room to grow 

Happy Friday,

Brigid

 

[pennyplant]

Hi Portia,

I don't mind the word-transforming, parallel universes/journeys.  It gives me something new to think about, maybe some objectivity.

When I look back on my life since age 18, I have a lot of regrets and would do it very differently if I could do it over again.  From where I'm at today, I believe that my kids are the best part of my life, my best contribution to the world.  Eighteen-year-old me didn't know that, wouldn't have even valued that idea.  So, I didn't do such a good job.  It's hard to find the positive in that.  He says, it's cool that we grew up together and that he wasn't so easy to raise.  But he was the kid.  That was his perogative.  I was a kid too but that wasn't his fault.  That's just a real hard chapter for me.  Lots to work on.

You're right, though.  It could have gone way worse than it did.  And I'm glad that didn't happen.  I think he is satisfied with who he is.  If he is not, well that is his journey, not mine.  I have to let him have his journey just like I have mine.

Pennyplant

[Plucky]

I  have become a huge hand washer. I must wash my hands a hundred times a day.

Ah Hah! I only wash my hands 25 times per day!  I'm so normal, I'm so normal.....

Again, I think it's that loss of control thing. 

Well, yes.  I kind of knew that.  I guess I'll have to contront it now.....Jeepers, can't get anything past you lot!

What if you are the person (or your kids or cats, etc) who eats the tainted spinach?

I thought that was kind of silly.  You could just cook the spinach, right?  Meanwhile, e coli in beef [products occurs, and we (I mean they) are just told to cook it well done.  ?????

Plucky

[Stormchild]

Oh - I am sorry, Pennyplant and Beth, I saw  your posts but they didn't 'register' till now for some reason.

I do have the 'rescue us' sticker, and my landlord knows I have two cats. One of my neighbors had a freak accident damage her apartment, and the landlord knew she was away and the first thing they did was look for her Westie... believe it or not she had had a premonition of some kind and thank God she had taken him to her folks' house for the day... so I think they'd try to help my animals in a similar situation. Our fire and rescue folks have terrific response time too...

I used to have a 'critter buddy', Beth, but the friendship withered, they basically only got in touch with me when they wanted something, and they had plenty of time to travel four and five hours to visit other friends, often and often, but never time to travel half an hour to see me. I got tired of doing all the work to maintain the friendship, and let it go.

Older you get, harder it is to make new friends.

I've tried animal shelters and rescue places - I used to spend TG and XMS volunteering at some of them - but would you believe, honest to God, I ran into such extreme prejudice against CHRISTIANS that I felt utterly unwelcome! And this was with me never saying a word about my beliefs one way or another - just all this Christian-bashing going on, the entire day, all around me, as I was taking care of critters and filling in wherever people needed me. Totally bizarre. Apparently the notion that one can be a follower of Christ and love animals too has lost a lot of traction. Nobody at these places had ever heard of St. Francis of Assisi, or St. Brendan, or St. Patrick either, I guess.

Anyway, I think I'm in the wrong place, geographically, for a lot of reasons. That's a small sample right there. And I guess, for now, I just will have to trust in God that my critters will be safe, and so will I, for as long as it takes to figure out how and when to get us all to someplace better than where we are now.

[Hopalong]

Thanks much for the thoughts, all.

Stormy, if you're referring to the PM you wrote to me, as you recall I did not read it all because I was in a peak stress period and felt it was wiser not to focus on dire imaginings about what might be in my D's pysche. I did read enough to see your assumption is that she had been through a sexual abuse trauma. I do not know whether that happened to my D or not and don't know how you could, honestly. I have no evidence of it, though I now know of a few times my exH² showed off "playfully" to her in a way she found exhibitionistic and disturbing (and which she recently described to me. I responded, That a**hole! And I believe she felt validated. I don't know why she didn't tell me at the time, but she may have been protecting me. I am very glad she's done so now.) As to apologizing to her for my bad judgment in marrying him, and owning the ways in which I let her down...I have done so. And she has forgiven me. Our dialogue's not over, though I had feared it was.
She just called tonight and asked me to plan a visit there, so we're moving past the recent rough spot. She hasn't set up T appts for us, or followed up on that idea, but she knows I'm absolutely willing to participate if she wants to begin that process. First, we have to get her moved into her new little apt. She is very excited about it, it's a positive change. Another thing that's happening is I am doing much better at listening to her, and transmit less of my own anxiety. I've made my life better and calmer with some recent decisions, and she's trying to do the same in her own life.
Thank you for caring about her, Storm, and me...I believe you do!

Portia and Brigid, of course. You're right. It's silly to think of a tattoo as a healing ritual between two people, except I did. That would depend on her liking the idea though. Well, given her response at that time, and your advice now, I won't be doing one, unless I get very clear I'm doing it for myself.

PP, thanks, this is me too:

I still have years of work ahead of me in understanding my son.  I feel confident we have a bond.  Which I wasn't always confident of.  But accepting him as a person and not losing myself in the process, that's a long term effort.  It shouldn't even be about me.  I should already exist and not be worrying about me.  I should have been discovering him and accepting him from day one.  So, there it is.  Better late than never

How did your son respond to you getting a tattoo? (I know you didn't bring it up to him in the way I foolishly did to my D. If I'd wanted to, I should have just shown her afterward.)

Doesn't matter. I haven't met a perfect mother yet.

love to all and me included,

Hops

[pennyplant]

I do have the 'rescue us' sticker, and my landlord knows I have two cats. One of my neighbors had a freak accident damage her apartment, and the landlord knew she was away and the first thing they did was look for her Westie... believe it or not she had had a premonition of some kind and thank God she had taken him to her folks' house for the day... so I think they'd try to help my animals in a similar situation. Our fire and rescue folks have terrific response time too...

Older you get, harder it is to make new friends.

Anyway, I think I'm in the wrong place, geographically, for a lot of reasons.

Storm, you've got it covered as best you can and I honestly believe it will be okay for you guys.  I do get what you're saying about the difficulty of making new friends at this stage of the game.  I have learned that one over and over again.  I don't even try any more.  I've got enough to do with firming up my insides.  Growing a bigger social circle will have to wait.

And for geography, I highly recommend not moving to upstate New York  .  Not that you were thinking of that!!!  I'm sure no one does!  This is a place people leave, for many reasons, including all the ones you have had to live with in your area.  I think we will just decide to move further out in the country and make our own little refuge in the woods.  I've spent so much energy worrying about how hard it is here, even though we're from here, that I just can't worry about it any more.  Time to go with the flow and see what develops from that.

I'm amazed at where this phobias thread has led.  I'm convinced my phobias have grown out of the real life stressers that have been so hard to conquer.  I think they are related to control issues too.  I always thought my fears and phobias sprang up out of nowhere or were due to my weaknesses.  But that just ain't so!

Pennyplant

[Hopalong]

PP:
Do you mean economically? I am sorry to hear this, I didn't know:

I've spent so much energy worrying about how hard it is here, even though we're from here

Are you and your H thinking of moving to another area for jobs?

Hops

[Stormchild]

Hi Hops

this all sounds good . One quick clarification - I don't think it's sexual abuse.

If you really want to know... I think, and I could be SO wrong about this, that there were times when she was little that she was picked on, or mistreated, by various people - family, classmates, teachers - and came to you for support, but instead of believing her, you tended to take their side.

I have a reason for thinking that, which is that I've seen it happen here. Telling Sallying Forth that her tone of voice might have caused the doctor to act like a total jerk, for instance. I know you thought better of that and retracted it - I know - the point is that it was the instant response, and this is not the only time it's happened. If your instant response is usually to defend the abuser rather than to support the abused, your daughter might have had multiple incidents like that.

Kids get angry when their parents won't stand up for them and they know they [the kids] are in the right and deserving of support. Shoot, adults get angry in those circumstances. How could kids not?

But I don't know. I'm guessing. That's all. And I am now going to retract my overly long nose, and let your business be your business. Just wanted to let you know - I don't think it was sexual abuse; I thought it was more likely to be a generic lack of support when the chips were down. And I'm just guessing. And beyond this point, it's none of my business, so beyond this point I will not go.

And I am still on your side. Both your sides. I'd love to see this worked out and through... it'd give hope and light to everyone here, for sure.

[pennyplant]

How did your son respond to you getting a tattoo? (I know you didn't bring it up to him in the way I foolishly did to my D. If I'd wanted to, I should have just shown her afterward.)

He knew my husband wanted one a long time ago and even drew a sketch of one of my husband's ideas.  He has told us about his tattoos and explained his philosophy about it over the years.  I was the hold-out up until this summer but I didn't really talk it over with him.  We don't really talk that often!  Plus, I was thinking about it a lot.  And didn't want to put him on the spot.  He actually is learning how to tattoo as a side-line and I didn't want him to feel pressure that I wanted him to do mine.  So, after I got it, I did write him a letter, since we were planning to come visit him soon, and shared it as part of my general news about us.  I think I mentioned what it was and described the shop and the artist, whose mother, it turned out, I used to work with many years ago!

He doesn't answer letters or email so I had to wait to get his feedback.  My tattoo does have some minor flaws in it so I asked him what might have caused those and he explained the tattooing and healing process.  That was on the phone.  In person, we talked some more and then when I got a chance I showed it to him.  He said it was nice.  He's so held in sometimes.  Oftentimes.  The thing he responded to was when I said I had enjoyed the actual process and that was the best part of it and I would always remember it.  And I liked the idea of always having the tattoo with me.  He knew exactly what I meant and I got the feeling he thought it was a very nice thing that I had understood that part of it.  He also shared a book of his so his father might have an easier time picking what he wants.

It was just a pretty natural conversation and that was nice.  It is hard for me, still, to relax with him.  We have such a history of tense conversations, arguments, and power struggles.  I'm still teaching myself to just be a regular person around him and let him be himself without worrying to myself that maybe he hates me or something along those lines.  It was very nice to have something genuine in common with each other.  I feel like we have made some progress with each other.  I've changed inside since the last time we saw him (18 months ago!) and I think that really helped.

Next questions:

My husband and I are very lucky, we each have good paying jobs (it wasn't always that way, though).  So, if we moved, it would be within our county so we could keep those jobs.  I'm actually looking for more privacy and peacefulness.  That's what I would be looking for in a new home.

This area is depressed in many ways, along with economically.  A few weeks ago, one of the candidates for governor referred to our region as being like Appalachia and people were hugely offended!!  But he was right, both factually and philosophically.  The southern tier part of upstate NY is actually the northernmost part of the Appalachian region.  This part of NY is part of the rust belt, too, which hasn't been well in decades.  (The town I'm from is actually taught about in Architecture schools as being an example of just how badly Urban Renewal can go.)  I always tell people, if they want to know about the mentality around here, to go and rent "Buffalo 66", an independent film, and watch it a couple of times.  It is a perfect portrait of voicelessness and it is exactly what many people here are really like.  Sure, plenty of people are happy enough here, or think they are.  But we've lived other places, and it's very different in those places.  The people here who think they are happy--they just don't know any better, in my opinion.

I can definitely see where Stormy is coming from with her opinion of her geographical location.  Each place that we have lived actually has its own personality.  I find this place where we live to be somewhat oppressive in my experience.

Well, here I am posting until bedtime again.

Good night, all!

Pennyplant

[Hopalong]

Storm,
Whew. I'm glad you wrote this. I had never understood what you seemed to be assuming about me.

I am glad to tell you that you are reading me quite wrong, misstakes and missteps here are not evidence of me being a bad mother. I am glad to be able to point out that one really can't sum up another person's character or parenting so easily.

I have been a fierce advocate for my child when she was experiencing bullying. She would tell you the same, because I see red. I could not protect her from the whole cycle of "unpopularity" -- nor can any parent, perfecly -- but when I was aware, I was in there! One notable example was in her 3rd grade when another child kept pinching, poking, yanking her hair, tripping and tormenting her. I believed her completely and I acted. I asked the teacher for help, they gave me platitudes. After a day or two when the situation wasn't resolved, I asked the teachers if I could meet with the other child's parents, and they went on alert, nooo, nooo, let US handle this. Another day or two, same story. I went to the school, spotted the bully in the call, sweetly called her aside and told her:

I don't care if you don't like my daughter. You do not have to be friends with her. But I do not want you ever again to pinch, push, trip or hurt her in any way. If you don't like her, stay away from her. But if I hear one more time that you have done this, I am going to call your mother and you will be in big trouble. Do you understand me? She nodded like crazy and a few days later I went to pick up my D and the former bully was hugging her and invited her over several times to play.

My D did not complain often, did not tell me of every instance when she was sad or hurt. I felt her pain, socially (as I'd been through the same thing), and did all I could to arrange play dates and support her in making friendships. She wound up having friends in her life much, much sooner than I had. By middle school she'd found herself, and she had very nice friends in high school and college. She found the first group friendship in UU youth group, and talks fondly of it today.

I shouldn't take what you've assumed personally, Stormy, and I won't. Perhaps my anguish and guilt over the rage she vented that I recently posted about has caused you to want to pin the blame for my daughter's difficulties somewhere, perhaps on me.

I'm sure much of it does belong squarely in my lap. I have never had a problem acknowledging that. What else do we write about here but how our parents affected us...of course we affect our children.

But I'd like to share with you a bit from a letter she sent me just a year ago:
"Mom, please don't ever feel responsible for all my troubles. There are several things I have brought on myself. And the two of us are not the same person (I know!). I have been finding myself, since Dad died, growing more and more like him. All of the sides of me that represent Dad have been amplified lately. His lonely side is one. .... I miss you Mom, and I know we will still have some great times together. You have some grandkids here (the pets). I'm also glad to be your daughter."

Nothing's perfect, including my mothering...and I'm sure I sounded like a wreck when I expressed my feelings of guilt and anguish over her suffering and rage a month or so back. But it wouldn't be fair to me to conclude --even though I felt guilty -- that I have not been a loving, supportive mother to her. I'm on her side in life and always have been. Mistakes and all, she knows that.

Thanks,
Hops

[Hopalong]

If your instant response is usually to defend the abuser rather than to support the abused

Stormy. You're way off.
"Usually" is not fair to me. And this image of me is not true.

Hops

[Stormchild]

Thanks for the insights into your past advocacy for your D, Hops. She's lucky to have had you in her corner in those instances.

WRT abuser-defending, aka enabling, I'll take another look at things here that led to this conjecture. I've expressed  concern about this before, and I'd be glad to be wrong.

[Hopalong]

Stormy,
Thanks for wanting to teach me about myself, but I would prefer you not dig up old posts where I've been out of step or unsupportive to anyone. Anyone who had an issue with me has the same access, and so far, nobody has asked me to talk about unfinished business withthem. I'm not on trial, hon. If I've ebbed and flowed in my awareness or helpfulness to people, here as in life, that's okay. I feel generally accepted, forgiven, and loved here. And I am so grateful for it.

If I have been unsupportive to you, for yourself, though, please do tell me. I'll gladly apologize. I am sure I may have done that in some way. I do make mistakes!

It's okay for me to make mistakes or have blind spots, Storm. I'm a good person, and I have deep good intentions toward everyone on this board. You included!

I'd be grateful if you'd make that your main assumption about me, if you can, going forward.

Thanks for wanting to be helpful, as I know you do, Storm.

Hops

[Stormchild]

Not to worry, Hops. I was going to go back and look at things only for my own edification, to see if I had misconstrued things, and if there might be a pattern to my own perception in that way. Nothing to be brought forward, except me being wrong and apologizing, if and as appropriate.

No, you aren't on trial, and you haven't been. Relax, and try to have a bit more faith in MY good intentions.