Author Topic: Asking again, for any who choose to share...  (Read 5213 times)

reallyME

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Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« on: October 29, 2006, 09:10:45 AM »
Which of you on here actually KNOW that your parents or people in your life are N's...as in, who's parents were actually DIAGNOSED BY A PROFESSIONAL THERAPIST, as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

I will say that the people in my life were and are DYSFUNCTIONAL, but I can't say they were diagnosed with NPD, though I call them N's as they fit every criteria and I have given examples of it several times on this group.

~Laura

Portia

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 09:50:51 AM »
Not me.

It doesn't matter to me though. I don't even think in terms of NPD, to be honest i think "personality disorders" as a whole are pretty unreliable labels, the soft end of psychiatry where there's a host of grey areas. My opinion.

penelope

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 10:09:34 AM »
I'm starting to think we are all Ns to various degrees.  The problem is acute when its a parent or spouse, or some other very notable figure in our life - like a spiritual mother we turn to.

As far as NPD?  I have never known anyone who was diagnosed with this problem by a psychologist or psychiatrist, no.  I suspect my N Dad was diagnosed by my mother's counselor of 5 years (he often went to sessions with her).  I suspect she was either diagnosed as inverted-N or BPD (which is a lot like NPD).  But I cannot prove it.  They'd never tell me and the counselor couldn't divulge this info to me either.  But it was very interesting when I saw him for my own marital problems and he told me:  bean, you've never been loved unconditionally.  When your husband came along, he seemed to love you unconditionally and it was very powerful.

How would he know this?  Well, he'd been seeing my parents for years.  That's as good a diagnosis as I need.  Cause whatever officail diagnosis they have, not being able to love unconditionally is the main symptom, and its a serious problem.

bean

Stormchild

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 10:45:13 AM »
But you know - none of us loves unconditionally. Not really.

If we don't get something back, eventually we give up pouring our goodness and mercy into a bottomless pit, if we're healthy. Others need our love and are capable of responding to it...

Laura, I actually do have diagnoses on the record on my Nmom and on two Ns I've worked with... the two coworkers each boasted about being 'labeled' and how they're so unique and brilliant that people label them in order to put them down... woowee.


« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 10:48:45 AM by Stormchild »
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Portia

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2006, 10:52:09 AM »
Storm
the two coworkers each boasted about being 'labeled' and how they're so unique and brilliant that people label them in order to put them down

Holy  :shock: incredible. Shocking!! :shock: The ego is an amazing thing? The brain is amazing :D <shakes head, off to clean car...>

Stormchild

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2006, 10:56:39 AM »
And this was in two different workplaces on different continents.

I'd have been more blown away if it had happened twice in the same place... but since I think a lot of these things are patterned, I guess I'm not so surprised.

[Edit in: this is actually a pretty garden-variety example of rationalization, come to think of it. "They're just jealous of my superior intellect" type stuff. Makes it just about impossible to get through to whoever it is, which is exactly what it's intended to do.]
« Last Edit: October 29, 2006, 12:07:51 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

Brigid

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 11:18:47 AM »
Laura,
The therapist who my xh and I saw together for 6 weeks, and I continued to see alone for 2+ years following my x's departure, diagnosed him as n.  I would never have had a clue otherwise.

For me, that was a very helpful thing as I was completely baffled about what transpired at the end of the relationship and I was able to do research which made it somewhat understandable.  Based on what I know now, I would say that both my father and my xfil were both heavily n, but neither were ever diagnosed to my knowledge.

Brigid

moonlight52

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 04:04:05 PM »
Laura ,

My Doctor diagnosed my Bipolar and parent with NPD from behaviors and history I told her about and her own experience interacting with parent.

It's pretty much self evident............

I am on my way toward acceptance of all and even an appreciation of Bipolar and not to push it away .

I have never meant to hurt others and have been self destructive my work with my doctor and here have saved me and I had to find my way.

love,
moon


SilverLining

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2006, 05:35:32 PM »
My father had some therapy many years ago, but I don't know the therapists conclusions, other than depression.  I know he quit after not too many sessions.  According to my mother he decided he was smarter than the therapist and thus wouldn't benefit from treatment (sound kind of N-ish on the part of my father or mother or both?). 

Like reallyme I prefer terms such as dysfunctional, or narcissistic pattern, which get away from labeling the person, and focus on the outcome of behaviors.   My father actually knows something is "wrong".  He once told my brother he identified with the "Rainman" character from the movies.  After doing some reading on autistic spectrum disorders, I believe he got it right.

Jynna

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2006, 08:51:40 PM »
Re: my parents: My therapist has always been careful to say, "I can't diagnose someone I've never seen but......"  then she points to how their behavior fits with some sort of personality disorder.  When I read about living with someone with NPD symptoms it is like reading about my life.

Yet, I still think sometimes, maybe she's not right, maybe it's just me.....

In the end, I know that it doesn't really matter if they are or aren't, I need to stop trying to figure them out and start trying to figure me out.

penelope

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2006, 10:37:41 PM »
hey stormy,

Quote
But you know - none of us loves unconditionally. Not really.


hmmm.  Do you think I'm naive then, expecting my mother to love me, baby bean, unconditionally.  Even when I throw up and cry and have poopy diapers, and get sick and keep her up all night?

 :shock:
bean

Hopalong

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2006, 11:10:00 PM »
I think we give a lot of authority to professionals, but the literature on narcissism often points out that even very skilled therapists are often fooled by narcissists. So, imho, it doesn't really matter if someone has been formally or "officially" diagnosed. Except in the rare case when a narcissistic person is seeking therapy to change those behaviors (which most aren't motivated enough to do). Some are, I'm sure.

Anyway, I haven't learned all the sub-types, don't fully understand the "inverted narcissist" model. But the basic building blocks in the DSM-IV are good enough for me. And they're not hard to spot.

Who but a child or spouse who lives or has lived FT with a narcissistic person and who has achieved enough emotional distance, even temporarily, is better equipped to have the penny drop in that moment when they say to themselves: Oh my god! It is NARCISSISM that I'm dealing with!

I think there is a moment of truth in that recognition that it would be very hard to get wrong. For me, what has happened in the years since I discovered the literature about Nism is that I have only modified my perception of the degree of my mother's narcissism, or narcissistic tendencies, or however one might put it. But the FACT of it, the reality of the behaviors (and their emotional impact on me, which continues to reveal itself over time) is unchanged. I mean, for me, it is a piece of truth.

The farther along time marches me from the first shock of recognition, the more I (thankfully) lose interest in narcissism itself, and feel more curiosity and engagement with other issues about being a human being and having a life. The most interesting (and destructive) thing about narcissism is its secretive, chameleonlike nature...how a smooth genial "personality" can allow the N (or Nish person) to function quite smoothly in the social world, year after decade, even throughout a long life. But behind the curtain, some person, often a child, is paralysed in the wings, knowing only that something is wrong.

Finding out that this something has a name has been one of the biggest revelations in my life.

Hops
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Plucky

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2006, 11:15:47 PM »
I think unconditional love does exist.  Lots of parents love their babies unconditionally.  This is probably the most healthy occurrence.  But I also think that there is an unhealthy unconditional love.  The victim of an abusive parent loves the parent in this way.  Even though a normal reaction would be to hate or fear, and sometimes these feelings also exist, there is love.  I see it here all the time.  We still love our parents who abused us and ruined our lives.  What is it based on?  Even once our illusions have been replaced by understanding of their syndromes and actions.  Even when they continue to make us suffer throughout our lives until they finally die at a ripe old age, after sucking us dry well into our own middle age.    We still love them, with love they never earned.
Plucky

Hopalong

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2006, 11:24:39 PM »
Wow.
Deep.
Hard.

Plucky, I think what's unhealthy is not the love, but the attachment.

When love gets more spacious and stretchy, and has no relation to dependency any more, I think then it cannot harm the one who loves. Because it's a full choice then.

Hops
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Plucky

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Re: Asking again, for any who choose to share...
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2006, 11:36:13 PM »
Well, maybe you're right.  It isn't really love, we just think it's love because we never had healthy love.   It is attachment, for sure.  The attachment of a host to its parasite.  A lethal combination of duty, guilt, habit, fear, and resignation.
Plucky