Asking again, for any who choose to share...

[reallyME]

GS

The NPD label allowed me to finally turn the corner on what my T has called for years - the double bind.

Thank you so much for sharing this information.  I was wondering if you could possibly share some examples of double binds, for those who might be new to all of this, and not sure what it means.  If you prefer not to, that's fine too, but I wanted to ask, because I think these terms need to be explained to help prevent others from staying in bad situations if they might be able to or better off, getting OUT of them.

Other terms that would be interesting to discuss:  Bait-n-Switch, Unspoken Rules, Power Posturing, Silent Treatment (Withdrawl of Affection), Projection.

Anyone care to comment...I'll start

Power Posturing:  The boss tells the employee about a wonderful raise, benefits, an awesomely high position....but one thing...she has to give him "favors" in order to obtain it...and, further, if she reports this, she will be FIRED!

[Gaining Strength]

Here's an example of what I mean - someone else may have a different meaning.

When I was a child I once complained to my parents of my brother tormenting me by banging on my door for over 5 minutes jsut to upset me.  The night before I had been up late at a spend the night party.  My father punished me because I should not have been up late and because I should not be a tattle tale. 

Another - As Christmas and birthday approached, if I let on about a toy or a particular item that I wanted, I learned that I could be sure not to get it, but I was expected to undeniable gratitude for what I did receive.  The expression of gratitude was never sufficient.  The double-bind - you can't have what you really want and you better be greatful for what you get but no matter what you say you will still sound ungreatful.

That's a couple of examples from my life.  The make me sad and lonely even as I write them.  But worst of all they have left me tied in knots and feeling wretchedly impotent to solve my problems in life.  And that's the dung pile I'm still trying to climb through.

Gaining Strength.

[GAP]

Dear Gaining Strength,

Your story sounds just like mine.  My oldest brother tormented me everyday of my life until I was 15.  When I was little I use to try and get my mother to help...her reaction was sticks and stones will break your    
bones.....I remember as a child thinking I'd rather he hit me then abuse me.  She was also verbally abusive so she was just giving herself and excuse.

I never asked for what I wanted as a child.  I think I knew instinctively no one would get it for me.  Ironically my mother is constantly "accusing" me of always doing what I wanted.  One time when she asked me what I wanted her to buy for one of my children I got up my nerve and mentioned an edition of monopoly that had been designed by Michael Graves and was available at Target.  She bought another Monopoly.  At that moment I realized how brilliant I was as a child to never ask for what I wanted because I never would have gotten that item but rather whatever she wanted.  I subconsciously  limited my disappointment.  
\
My daughter commented to me the other day that she had received a gift from her grandmother and she was once again struck how her grandmothers buys gifts that she would like with not once ounce of consideration for the receiver of the gift, in comparison to her Aunt (my sister in law) that buys her gifts that reflect her style and who she is.  I think that analogy sums up a narcissist, it is never about you, they never respect you or your wishes and desires.
  

You have been delivered a tough break having the parents you have but you can overcome their legacy.  I didn't start my psychological journey until I was thirty.  I ended up marrying a narcissist and it took years of reading and therapy to get strong enough to break away and get a divorce.  When I turned to my foo for support I found them mean and judgmental.....more therapy and more reading.  I'm finally at a point in my life where I really understand how to deal with narcissism and not let it get to me.  I don't let any of them fill my head with their crazy interpretation of who I am and what I want, I don't tell them anything that could potentially be used against me, I don't share my dreams and thoughts, I ignore their judging ways, I don't engage in their judging of others, I smile when they tell me what I should do and how I should do it.  

I am open to constructive input and criticism from people I love and trust, none of which are narcissist.  Learn to trust your gut, your interpretation of your parent's behavior in the stories you wrote about is correct, they weren't fair.  You feel lonely because it is hard to right when the people that are suppose to love and care for you make you feel so wrong.  Knowing you are right when you have been taught unfairly that you are wrong is a hard legacy to break.  Once you get over the fear of breaking away from your family (I have done it on an emotional level, I simply shake my head and don't react when I'm around them) you will feel so much better.  I have given up hope of the worst offenders changing and have strengthed my relationship with the supportive relatives.  They won't help you solve your problems only you can...babysteps, trust your gut, you sound like you have a great sense of right and wrong, now use it.

Gap

 

[Sallying Forth]

I do not love my parents and I have never loved my parents. I realised that recently and it’s been quite liberating.

Yes, same here Portia. This goes for my brothers as well except my middle brother. I do have warm feelings for him. However, I don't know him very well any more. Nor does he know me. I am not the same person I was growing up.

A lethal combination of duty, guilt, habit, fear, and resignation.

All not necessary for life! And not lethal either. Fear of what?? Being alone?

Interesting. I would say for me it is out of habit and fear that I 'loved' my parents when I was a child. However, mostly it was instinct. In order to survive my attrocious childhood I had to pretend right a long with them. I never loved them, I tolerated them because I wanted to survive. I realized several years ago that I no longer had to play that game. I could be true to me, keep the protective distance, and I didn't have to pretend any more.

[Stormchild]

For me, I've to re-learn what love is.  My parents gave me a twisted example of love.  With them, love is something you earn by "being good" (i.e. meeting their needs).  There is no room for making mistakes, learning from those mistakes.  If I messed up, then I didn't deserve their love.  Yet, as I type this now, I see that for them it was just the opposite.  I was obligated to love them.  I HAD to love them no matter what.  This meant saying nice things about them in front of people. (This was big for them.), oh and many other things that were just illusion and not honest love. 

They didn't need to do anything to earn my love, but I had to earn theirs.  Even more so, they could do anything and I still had to love them.

My husband and my kids have helped me to see a more healthy view of love.  Love the person not their actions.  It's confusing for me.   I remember the time I got into a minor fender bender with our new car.  The first thought that crossed my mind was that my husband would leave me.  It just isn't natural to me that I don't need to earn other people's love.  Yet, I would never expect my husband and children to earn my love.

I guess I'm saying that for any of us who grew up in this twisted world of love, the idea of unconditional love is going to be very mixed up.  I don't want anyone telling me that I HAVE to love anyone, yet I do love my children unconditionally.  I can't imagine a thing they could do that would make me not love them, it doesn't feel overwhelming to me. 

Is unconditional love a choice or an obligation?

Oh Jynna - that's lovely, but you know that if one of your kids was caught red-handed, literally, in a Columbine type situation, and wasn't blind drunk or stoned, and said he or she had enjoyed every minute and couldn't wait to do it again - [God forbid all of this, may it never be, not even in their video games!] - if you didn't re-evaluate your feelings for them, I'd be very concerned about you.

Ted Kaczynski was turned in by his own brother.

Scott Peterson's half sister was not in the least sorry to see him go.

There comes a time when 'unconditional love' just isn't a remotely sane response, anymore. And this isn't totally far fetched off the wall thinking - real, normal, average people have to deal with such things, sadly more often than we know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bean - I hate to say it, but even maternal love is conditional to an extent. Go read about oxytocin and the bonding power of a baby's smile.

"The infant's smile and the parents' responses to it suggest a theory as to the evolutionary advantage that smiling confers. It appears to transform the infant's first, most fundamental relationship. Mothers say it is at this stage that they feel themselves to be dealing with another human being -- that they are no longer mere attendants of a screeching diaper-soiling device but people involved in an intimate relationship. The infant has at last become a person."

[note added by Stormchild: for fathers, this usually happens when the kid is long out of diapers and old enough to throw a ball ]

from here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_v21/ai_4724963/pg_2

And theologically, even God's love is -ultimately- conditional.

For those who believe in judgement after life, the conditionality is direct and straightforward.

But it's just as conditional for those who believe that all will be ultimately saved, because for those who are warped or evil to be accepted into the kingdom, they first have to be repaired, or they would bring Hell into Heaven. Choosing to fix them is a precondition for rewarding them with eternal love!

But this doesn't really matter.

Love is a miracle.

Any time we experience it, anywhere, from anyone [human or animal], we are blessed.

[WRITE]

At that moment I realized how brilliant I was as a child to never ask for what I wanted because I never would have gotten that item but rather whatever she wanted.  I subconsciously  limited my disappointment. 

I just skimmed the last page of the thread ( I've been away fro a week, not kept up ) but this leapt out at me Gap.

That's so much what has to happen, limit your disappointment, and it's only years later you realise with more disappointment all the times missed when that 'skill' did a disservice and limited something else.

You feel lonely because it is hard to right when the people that are suppose to love and care for you make you feel so wrong.  Knowing you are right when you have been taught unfairly that you are wrong is a hard legacy to break.

yes it is, a lifelong attention to detail...