Author Topic: A rock and a hard place!  (Read 4569 times)

liberty

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A rock and a hard place!
« on: October 30, 2006, 11:18:38 AM »
Hi everyone,

This is my first post. I have realized since I was a child that something is not right with my relationship with my mother. I am an only child (female) and I grew up in a very abusive home. My father and my mother never seemed to be able to get along and I was forced to "choose" between them. My father used to get into rages and break up things in the house and threated to burn it down and things like that. He would also curse me repeatedly when he dropped me to school on mornings (ages 8-14) and drive exceedingly fast almost as though he wanted to crash the car. Once he almost did! He would say that I was a wicked child and I would become a whore like my mother and thing like that. I endured this every school day.

Our house was literally divided into two sections with furniture piled high in various corners. My mother made sure that I would walk only on her side of the house. Needless to say no friends ever came over to our house.

My mother on the other hand would encourage me to try to talk with my father about his behavior and would say that my interactions with him were examples of how horrible he was. I begged her to leave him but she insisted that she had to stay in the relationship because of me. There were times that I used to stand in front of my mother to defend her against him a she seemed unable to act. There were also times when I would imagine killing my father. I lived in constant fear for my life.

Eventually things got so bad that another person (I never found out who) noticed how my father used to rage at me in the car and spoke to my mother about it. It was only then that she decided to take out a restraining order against my father. Even after that, we all still lived in the same house and things only got worse (for me).

It was only when my mother found out that my father had a child with another woman with whom she knew he was having an affair (all through the marriage) that she divorced him.

I always felt that I replaced my father and became my mother's husband. She seemed glad to tell me horror stories about him, how I had to be careful that he wouldn't send someone to rape us, and about how he didn't love me and I became an emotional prop. I always had to listen to her talk forever about herself and what she felt  and what she was doing. I wore the clothes that she liked. I lived like a mini her because I felt as though it was my responsibility to protect her. Yet, I found her to be cold and controlling but no-one else seemed to notice. I felt it was unsafe to disagree with her, as though she would hate me forever!

Jump forward about fifteen years. I am married now with children and thankfully my husband is very supportive. I have gone to therapy  and read many, many books (Thank you Amazon!) on the topic. My therapist says that I should have been removed from that home and placed under special care. The problem is that now that I have started standing up for my self my mother has become spiteful and nasty (no surprise here). Here are some examples:


When I try to discuss the events of my childhood with her , the impact it has on me and her role in allowing these things to happen, she either claims not to remember, that it didn't happen or as she told me "...so you had a bad childhood, so what? Get over it."

She also once said to me" Imagine that your cousin (parents also divorced) tried to get in touch with her father. I can imagine how betrayed her mother feels."

One recent incident occurred when my son (7 years old) was really misbehaving. I told him to take a time out and wait outside (on a bench under a tree) until his dad got home. I called my husband and explained what was happening and said he was coming home right away.

When my mother found out she was very angry, accused me of emotional abuse and said that I should be the one to deal with my son. I explained to her that I felt it was time for a male (his father) intervention and that my husband was very responsible and he would talk to our son. Sometimes, as I had read, boys need to interact with a male figure. She said it was cruel and heartless to leave him outside like that and that it's the mother's responsibility to deal with the children. I explained to her that it would not be for long and that in fact my son was at the time playing with ants outside under the tree. He was fine.

The next thing I knew my mother appeared by my gate with her bigger sister in tow. My aunt rushed toward my son and hugged him as though he was dying and my mother came into the house saying that she was just passing by. I was livid! My mother looked at me as though she could not understand why I would be upset and to this day has never admitted that she was interferring.She doesn't know what I'm talking about. (My husband did come home and talk to our son and the situation was resolved)

Another time, I invited my mother to a small birthday get together I was having. She  sat in the most remote corner of the living room by herself, almost facing the wall and sulking. I asked her if she wanted to come out to the area where we were cutting the cake and she refused saying that she did not know anyone (This is not true. In fact several of my friends whom she knew went inside to talk to her)

When the party was just getting good and every one was settled, she announced in front of one of my friends: "When is this thing ending. I'm ready to go. You need to drop me home!" I told her that I would not. She then sat down and started yawning loudly.

She now tries to manipulate me to make other people feel that I am selfish and cruel. I bought a book for her on Amazon and she kept insisting that I tell her the exact amount so that she could pay me. I told her not to worry about that. She asked me about it no fewer than five times and each time I would say the same thing but i was becoming very annoyed. Once she said it in front of my husband (I was glad that this time there was a witness). I got the feeling that she know this was upsetting me and she timed it for maximum effect.

Then one day we had an argument. This was once when I tried to ask her about my childhood and she accused me of wanting to kill her. I got so angry that I cursed her and told her she was poison and that I wanter to get away from her. I also told her that I wanted back the money for the book! ( I had to get that book thing off my chest) She broke down in tears and said that she was so hurt that her own child who she sacrificed so much for would ask her for money for a book. She called my husband to complain and told him that I needed help. Later on when things cooled down and I asked her why she kept insisting that she pay for the book, she said that she never did and that if she did ask the cost of the book it was only out of curiosity.

Another time she tried to persuade me to ask her lawyer to arrange to put my name on a piece of property that she owned. (I smelled that rat!) I told her that she would have to do this herself if she wanted to. She asked me again and I gave her the same reply. She said that I had never told her so before. About a month later she mentioned to me that she did not think that she needed to put my name on the property because "you know when parents get old, children can take advantage of them"

My mother and father were really like a rock and a very, very, very hard place.

Anyway I realize again how important it is for me to divorce myself emotionally from her. But sometimes I slip back and then feel like kicking myself. I actually get headaches anytime I am around her for too long. And I spend way too much time feeling guilty and thinking about her and how she upsets me. I now try very hard make sure that I don't become like her for the sake of myself, my husband and my children.

This is the first time that I have ever written anything like this for public viewing and I did not think so much would have come out. I feel a bit exposed but better. Thank you all for hearing me out.






Portia

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2006, 11:35:22 AM »
My goodness Liberty, what a couple of rubbish parents you were landed with.

Welcome. :)

Well done for your expressive and descriptive post. I want to vow never to buy my mother a book from amazon again! These small things can be used to become such big issues... and so manipulative too.

How do you feel now? Did it take some courage to post? Are you glad you have done? I'm glad if it helps to share some of your experiences.

Do you need to kick yourself for slipping back sometimes, we all do it I think. We're only human.

From what you've said, I think it's as likely as a blue flying 10 ton elephant that you'll become anything like your mother. Welcome again Liberty.

liberty

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2006, 11:43:30 AM »
Hi Portia,

Thank you for replying Portia. I feel good to know that I can share my experiences. It took me nearly the whole morning to type that post. I kept deleting and typing back. I felt as though it would be terrible if my mother found out that I was doing this but now I'm glad I did it.

When I did the post I was crying but now I feel much better. Thanks for your kind words.

pennyplant

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2006, 06:10:00 PM »
Welcome, Liberty.

Good for you for spending the time on your post and for sharing your story with us.  You are an amazing survivor.  It seems to me that your mother hardly deserves the time of day from you.  As people share their stories here, it is amazing to me the creativity Ns go to in their illness.  Yet, each story feels similar to me so far as the complete lack of love and caring and even the anger that comes through in the various forms of abuse.  We all grew up with that part.  It was the outward manifestations that varied.  My parents were mostly uninterested in me and our home was quite orderly.  But I still knew I was unloved and a burden.  I was also a neighborhood scapegoat and still to this day have social problems to varying degrees.  My parents were incapable of teaching any social skills at all.  They did teach me to be an N-magnet.  Yay.

I hope you continue to find this a helpful place.  It has helped me tremendously and many others too.  Not sure where I would be without it!

Pennyplant
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

liberty

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 06:57:18 PM »
Thank you penny. I have also found many of the examples here to be in keeping with my experiences; amazingly so. One good thing that this gave me was VALIDATION. As an only child without many friends, I grew up with this type of behavious (my mother not my father) as normal. I knew that I was not comfortable with it but it was all that I knew.

As a child my mother did not treat me like a scapegoat but I did read in the book: "When you and your mother can't be friends" that such parents tend to make one child "all good" and the other "all bad". Since I was an only child, I guess she saved the all bad for when I grew up.  :lol:

One way that I am trying to cope is to see the humour in the situations though this is not always easy. Other times,  I treat my mother as though she is just another person and not my mother so there is no feeling of obligation there. I then feel free to respond to her in a way that is suitable to me. But this is all a work in progress.

Hopalong

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 07:07:40 PM »
LIBERTY is a beautiful name, and telling your story is an act of liberty.
Welcome, Liberty!

Your mother reminds me of a rotting sausage and your father is apparently rabid.

You, on the other hand, have come through the fire with a lot of clarity.
I know this place has added so much clarity to my life.

As to places to start, sometimes I think one simple thing is to stand outside (I don't know why outside helps, but it might be because it connects us to our being alive, in nature) and say to some cooperative tree:

No. I will not be coming over.
No. I won't do that.
No. I don't agree.
No, thank you.
No. Goodbye now.
No.

A big YES that you've found VESMB!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

gratitude28

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 08:18:16 PM »
(((((((((((((((((((((((liberty))))))))))))))))))))

What a horrible childhood and overall situation. How wonderful that you have read/attended therapy and found your own sweet family!!!

You need to limit your son's contact witht hat woman. I would refrain from telling her ANYTHING she can use against you.Stick to pleasantries if you must talk to her.She IS poison and you must not let her into your life.

liberty, we are here to listen to anything you want to talk about. Take care of yourself and your family.

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

penelope

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2006, 08:45:22 PM »
hi liberty,

Amazon - love it.  Have you read Toxic Parents?  Your mother is a classic toxic parent.  I don't know how to describe your father, but he was certainly far from human and not much of a father at all.

I'm sorry.  Hopefully those tears and writing have relieved your pain a little.

On the good side, you sound like a wonderful, calm & loving parent.  Way to go, you sucessfully parented yourself! (and can continue to do so)

hugs,
bean

Plucky

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 11:47:57 PM »
Welcome Liberty,
Your childhood was awful and in many ways your mother resembles mine.   I understand your fear of being discovered, however, do you think your mother would come onto this board?  How on Earth would she relate to it?  After all, she is perfect and you are the problem!  In addition, there are so many parents of the same type being described up here, she would be hard put to find herself, especially since none of those things you describe actually happened!

Congrats on finding your voice and being able to see that woman clearly for the sick person she is.  You did not have parents.  What you had was worse than not having any parents.  You are nothing like her - remember her upbringing was far different from yours.   You were conditioned to accommodate and become what the adults around you demanded.   She grew up to be the demander.    Far different.

You don't have any timetable for getting her out of your life or learning to resist her completely.  You will do it when you do it.  I don't think your son will be harmed by occasional contact, since he is in a healthy home.   It might even help him to see in small doses what a real sicko is, so he can avoid being taken by surprise later on.  And he is watching you develop your coping mechanisms.   He is learning how not to be an N victim.

I got a lot out of your post.  My mother does the same things about paying for gifts, and tried for years to get me to give her power of attorney over my accounts.  She recently came up wth a new scheme to put my name on her accounts for some reason.   I am so accustomed to her, that I sometimes don't even think about how manipulative her actions are.  It just seems normal for her.  So thanks for posting.  You helped me.

Plucky

liberty

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2006, 05:47:21 AM »
I don't think your son will be harmed by occasional contact, since he is in a healthy home.   It might even help him to see in small doses what a real sicko is, so he can avoid being taken by surprise later on.  And he is watching you develop your coping mechanisms.   He is learning how not to be an N victim.

Thanks Plucky, I actually have four children (two boys, two girls) with four very different personalities. Whenever strange Ngrandma things come up with I have a discussion with them. eg Once I was considering buying a waffle iron and I mentioned it to Nmom. She became upset because she already had a waffle iron that she used to make waffles for the children. Her exact words to me were: "So you want to take this away from me too?"

I asked the children what they thought about this concept " How does empowering yourself, take something away from another person?" and used a parallel kiddie example. I got feedback from them and guided the conversation but did not give them my conclusion, thereby encouraging them to come up with their own conclusions. Rational thinking will be their best defence against Ngrandma.

There is one child, my big daughter (age 9) who seems to be more sensitive and prone to suck up my emotions. Once when I was in a bad mood, she asked me to get a special bed sheet for her. I climbed up to get it and the whole pile fell on my head so I made a loud steups (sucked my teeth). She said to me : "Sorry mommy for getting you upset"  At that moment a  light bulb went off in my head. I told her that she could not make me angry. I chose to get angry and that people are responsible for their own feelings. Always remember that.

I realized that this is what I never heard. In fact I heard the opposite. This is what Nmom used to keep me under wraps.

Amazon - love it.  Have you read Toxic Parents?  Your mother is a classic toxic parent.  I don't know how to describe your father, but he was certainly far from human and not much of a father at all.

Thanks Bean for your support. I saw "Toxic Parents" on Amazon. It's on my list of books to get. The ones I've read so far are "The Borderline Mother", " Wolf in sheep's clothing", "Why is it always about you?", "Emotional Vampires", "You're wearing that?" "Children of the self absorbed"

I think that my father was mentally/emotionally unstable. I am not sure how much my mother pushed him because it can't be easy to live with such a controlling person. I would like to hear his side of the story out of interest but I don't want to speak to him at all, ever!

I would refrain from telling her ANYTHING she can use against you.Stick to pleasantries if you must talk to her.She IS poison and you must not let her into your life.

Hi Beth. I agree with you 100%. When I talk to her now I go into Never Never land mode. Bit by bit I am keeping her out of my personal life. I think a good nickname for her is Alice (in wonderland)  :lol:

Hops, I have the perfect tree outside. The same one where I sent my son for timeout. Very nice tree. Very shady. Should be very co-operative. These are really things that I need to say frequently. Great advice.

Thanks.

moonlight52

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2006, 03:10:32 PM »
Welcome Liberty,

Those children of yours are lucky ducky's for you to understand so much when they are so young and your understanding that we are all responsible for our own emotions and you told your sweet daughter this this is so powerful. 8)

It brings all the choices back to you and of course it is so obvious that caring for your children is so important .Understanding your childhood gives you the right tools to be a better person and parent.Your examples are super  :D

Oh and the concept of empowering yourself how does this take away from anyone else .You got some very cool kids yes sir reeeeeeeee
Its all about the waffle iron I just love this...................................................... :lol:

Liberty welcome again, :D :D :D

Hugs ,

MoonLight

gratitude28

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2006, 10:24:35 PM »
I get the "hurt" thing from my parents all the time. "Oh, you already bought them that book?... We wanted to get them something special. Oh, they already have...?" My instinct is to fall into the pattern of feeling guilty. They did that to me this summer... bought some newer movies and then were sooooooo disappointed when we got there and the kids had/had seen some of them. It was as if I had done this to them on purpose. My dad was like, "Oh, we tried to get them something they wouldn't have seen...." Small things... huge deal...
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

liberty

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2006, 05:27:51 AM »
Moonlight: ( said to the background theme of Star Trek) The waffle iron can be a powerful symbol! It can control destinies and shatter lives..................... :lol: Glad you see the humor in this!

Hi Gratitude. I totally understand that. I get the "SIGH" alot for things like that. "Oh so you already planned to take them out this weekend. SIGH" .......as though you are responsible for her suffering over a trivial matter like that!

That used to happen alot especially in phone conversations. When I would say "Nmom, how are you?" She would say: "SIGH (long and drawn out)....... i'm ok....(Silence)" and mind you she would be the one that called.

I would become annoyingly positive and cheerful and say:
"That's great! Well it seems like a bright day today so I'm heading out now. Bye!" and I left her to be sour alone!

That seems to be working because she slowed down with the sighing. But every now and then it starts back and I have to be super positive again.

My unspoken point to her is: If you choose to be unhappy then by all means go ahead. But that's not my problem. So you need to be unhappy all by yourself.

Once they don't have a captive audience for that type of nonsense they will stop.

October

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2006, 09:21:46 AM »

Anyway I realize again how important it is for me to divorce myself emotionally from her. But sometimes I slip back and then feel like kicking myself. I actually get headaches anytime I am around her for too long. And I spend way too much time feeling guilty and thinking about her and how she upsets me. I now try very hard make sure that I don't become like her for the sake of myself, my husband and my children.

This is the first time that I have ever written anything like this for public viewing and I did not think so much would have come out. I feel a bit exposed but better. Thank you all for hearing me out.


Nice to meet you, Liberty

It is very difficult to cut away completely from our parents.  My own advice, fwiw, because I struggle with this one myself, is to try to find what is best for you to do for yourself.  If you need to not see people, then don't.  If you need sometimes to visit, then do so, but try to limit the damage.  This is what I do. 

In the end it becomes pointless trying to make 'them' happy, because it cannot be done.  My mum is only happy when she is unhappy, so if I happen to contribute to that unhappiness, I try not to let the guilt get to me.  I just think it must be my turn.   :)

Your parents sound really, really awful.  Just horrible.  Well done for managing to say it out loud, and for daring to speak the truth.  It will get easier, in time.

liberty

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Re: A rock and a hard place!
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2006, 11:44:23 AM »
Thank you Sov. Thank you so much for seeing and understanding what I did for her. I walked through fire for her and it means nothing to her. Yes, this part hurt the most. Thank you for seeing it.

I agree about the thread. I think I will start it now.

Lib.