Codependence + enmeshment and the N parent

[kelly as guest]

Here's how I see it.  Whether a person has alcoholism or workaholism or any ism, a codependent relationship starts to exist.  They coined that term for people who were dealing with alcoholics.  You become part of the "dysfunctional family" and must follow the dysfunctional family rules.  My mom is a workaholic but I think she was breeding her narcissistic self out of an attempt by her parents to keep her down "where she belonged."  In her yearbook they described her as neither a bookworm or a social hound but a real swell girl to have around......................after she moved away from that little town she did everything she could possibly do to feed this inner beast to be the best, the most successful, the most beautiful......................and she was successful so everyone catered to that narcissism.......she has money so people flock to her not because they want to be her friend, but because they want a piece of her (boy, what a shallow place to be...................)

Anyway, as long as she looks good, it is all good.  She never really gets vicious in a crowd - even family.  I only get her venom when it is she and I alone in a room.  The reason for that is I finally about five years ago drew a line in the sand and started to stand up for myself.  See in public we are nicey nice but in private she goes for the jugular.  Trying to get me to go back into my controlled box (which will never happen.....)  She is also mean to people she considers inconsequential.........like some of our employees.  My daughter's friends............

But now I have this larger than life persona.  It took me so long to shake the control that I am like a roaring lion walking around just daring someone to give me crap.  I pity the poor person who cuts in line in front of me.  My doc told me that I exude negative energy and that is why I am reading the Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer to try to replace all that negative energy with positive.  I just hope that the guy at my job interview didn't pick up on the negative energy - I tried to be positive.  One of my newer employees told me I was totally intimidating until he got to know me - not what I try to do but I guess that is how it comes off.

Dazed = I have to tell you that I didn't break free until I was 42 and five years later I am still in the process of breaking free.  In a way I am jealous of you because your parents are gone and you don't have to deal with them...........but you do have to go through the grief process..................been there, done that!!!

This group helps.  I have had people tell me I am in denial.  I have had lots of "atta girls!!"

[Hopalong]

My doc told me that I exude negative energy and that is why I am reading the Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer to try to replace all that negative energy with positive.

What a wonderful example of how a person who is absolutely destined to heal behaves.

(If not this job, there will be another success soon, Kelly. You're just warming up!)

ROARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

hugs,
Hops

[kelly as guest]

Roar all over the place!!  I am getting worried.  I SO want to have a second interview for this job................I went back to the website and the job isn't posted anymore.  Could that mean they filled it or they have enough people applying for the job that they know one of us will get it.  OR have they already hired someone and I am not that person??  Boo Hoo!!  I want this job sooooooo much!!!

Today I was praying that God's will for my life and our business be done!!  i HATE to get in the way so I need to back off and allow God to take the lead in my life!!   But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I just want a second interview!!!!!

[Hopalong]

Hey Roarrrrry,

Please promise that if it doesn't work out for this job (when that happens, you never know why really and I hate seeing people beat themselves up?)...you promise promise promise NOT TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY. Okay

Remember, if you get it...it's just a decision they made. About what they wanted or fantasized about for the new person. But if you don't, it is just a different decision they made. It's NOT about you or your worth, it's just a combination of factors that you'll never know the detals of...none of us do...I've been certain I've nailed jobs and not gotten them, thought I didn't have a chance and gotten one, and come in second for positions I really wanted....-more times than I can describe!

I too am really hoping for you that you get this one, and you may! My fingers and toes are crossed.
I just don't want your huge hopes and expectations to set you up for crushing disappointment.

If you get it that's good, you'll be glad and learn.
If you don't, you'll be sad and learn.
As long as you hold onto the "learn" part, you'll be great either way. Positive Kelly!

I read somewhere that it's good to look at every single interview for any job as a very good thing, whether it pans out or not. Because it's all PRACTICE for the interview and job combination that do wind up working out.

Made sense to me, anyway.

(I'm not predicting either way hon. Just don't want you to set yourself up by hoping too hard.)

Dunno why I'm feeling so alert to this except that I have looked for jobs for a year (and had a decade of struggles with lots of unemployment, etc.)

hugs,
Hops

[Dazed1]

Kelly,

“You become part of the "dysfunctional family" and must follow the dysfunctional family rules.” Yup, totally agree.

“My mom is a workaholic but I think she was breeding her narcissistic self out of an attempt by her parents to keep her down "where she belonged." Kelly, mine too!  My maternal grandparents were, MUCH more N than my parents.  This made me feel sorry for my mom and because I felt sorry for her and didn’t want her to suffer her pain, I enabled her.

“See in public we are nicey nice but in private she goes for the jugular.” Same with me.

“One of my newer employees told me I was totally intimidating until he got to know me - not what I try to do but I guess that is how it comes off.”   Kelly, I have heard people say this about me too and now I think it’s because we were defending ourselves against our Nmoms for so long, we didn’t want anyone to crap on us.

“In a way I am jealous of you because your parents are gone and you don't have to deal with them...........but you do have to go through the grief process..................been there, done that!!!” 

Kelly, irony of irony:  truth is, for me at least, is that death does not sever the effects of Nism.  Yes, due to death, I no longer have to battle my parents, but I am battling the effects of their Nism.  Just part of their legacy.

Of, Kelly, I just read about the job.  Yes, give it up to God.  I used to laugh at people who said that, but now I really understand it. 

Yes, I love what Hops said:  In case it doesn’t work out, don’t take it personally.  I know you really want this job.

But Kelly, I know whatever comes down the road, you will work it out.  Bestest of luck to you.

Dazed

[kelly as guest]

OK, Dazed...........I guess we have a similar upbringing...........................In some ways I think I will be relieved when my parents pass but then I realize when it really happens, relief won't be the emotion.  I am sure there will be so much regret because I have tried, tried, tried, tried to make my mom validate me!!  In a way I tried to control her and it just doesn't work - we are so push.me.pull.you type people - back and forth, back and forth...............

I have described it as being totally bogged down with this sticky film all over my body and I am trying to get loose and I am trying desperately to get all the goo off of me - that is how I feel about this over bearing feeling my nmom gives me......................almost how a rape victim tries to wash the rape off.......

And Hops.............you are so good for me.  You keep cheering me on no matter how long the process takes and no matter what my state of mind!!  Thanks!!!

[Dazed1]

Kelly,

"I am sure there will be so much regret because I have tried, tried, tried, tried to make my mom validate me!!  In a way I tried to control her and it just doesn't work - we are so push.me.pull.you type people - back and forth, back and forth..............."

You are absolutely right.  I now realize that for my entire life, I also tried to get my mother to validate me, to the point that I was controlling her and it never worked.  Jeez, I'm just repeating your words.  AAHHH!!!

I know about that goo.  I still have it on me.

dazed

[kelly as guest]

Validation is something I don't predict I'll ever get, however, I am trying and trying and trying to get rid of that sticky do all over my body!!!  It takes a lot of perseverence to keep moving forward.  I find myself being triggered when I least expect it!!  The last few days have been good because nmom has been backing off.............I think she is a bit overwhelmed so it is easier for her to back off........or who knows?  Maybe she is in the midst of plotting against me...................never know.  She may be in the midst of trying to bless me but I won't hold my breath on that one!

[reallyME]

Maybe she is in the midst of plotting against me...................never know.  She may be in the midst of trying to bless me but I won't hold my breath on that one!

Sounds like a familiar thought that goes through my brain too.

[freeme2live]

I too used to desire validation for so many years from my mom until I began to see her as a person who too needed validation and it wasnt from me. However when I saw her in a different light and began to just be there for her that day came finally for her to tell me "I know I wasnt a good mom to you, but I am proud of who you've become." Talk about "shock and awe!" It did take me back a bit and some adjusting and allowing her enter my heart again as a mom not as someone in need. Anyway all things are possible is what I say

Laterz
Free

[reallyME]

freeme2live,

That is wonderful about how your mother eventually validated you, however, many of the people here have had to or have to come to grips that they may NEVER hear those words from their N "parent."  Some self-absorbed people never come a place in their brain, where they are able to grasp the damage they have done.

That is just how it is sometimes, sad though it may seem.  I don't think I will ever hear those words being spoken and MEANT SINCERELY by the dysfunctional people in my life, but hey, only GOD knows my future.  If it's in His plan, it will happen.

~RM

[freeme2live]

ReallyMe and Moonlight,

Maybe I am an optimist, although I have been through much, inside I've tried to see the good in others as I would have wanted myself to be seen. With my mom I had to bury feelings because they werent allowed so as an adult had to do "damage control" like many here are doing.

RM said "Some self-absorbed people never come a place in their brain, where they are able to grasp the damage they have done." I do agree there has been damage but it is up to me to work through that things and try not to allow that person to control my life. Even though my mom validated me that wasnt all that long ago. It took me a few months to adjust to that because I had set up emotional boundaries from years of verbal and emotional abuse. Tearing those down was very gradual process. I never believed my mom was "self absorbed" but was a person with issues just following the patterns from her own alcoholic father who seldom cared about his own family and was verbally and physically abusive. I will say I do agree that most people who are n's dont realise the damage, as its like looking down from a hill after math of a severe storm, sometimes the damage just cannot be seen from just one angle. But I would never call my parents "self absorbed" they cared for us as best they could with from where they were, and did their best. All in all it is still up to me to do "damage" control and mull through the muck of cleaning up. It is time consumming, and as I hear it "time does heal all wounds." Ok so the cliche isnt exactly apprapoe here but I'd say that healing does take time, as we try to replace the bad with good.

Laterz gatorz
Free

[reallyME]

free2b, I'm happy for ya but that's not my reality nor everyone else's.

At this point, I'm willing to admit, that when it comes to some things, I'm VERY pessimistic.  I dared to trust someone again, whom, honestly if you had met her, you'd never believe she could have done all the things I said she did, and now she is gone.  Then again, as I always said, "is she GONE or did she never EXIST?"  Did I spend almost 2 years of my life with someone's FACADE?  That is the way I look at things now...Jodi created and lives through an IMAGE of a person so that the world will adore her and she will appear to be favored by God.  What was really there when I got "up close and personal" was an insecure, spoiled, angry child, whom, if she didn't get her own way, was going to make everyone's life MISERABLE!  My brain still has trouble computing that what I experienced, yes, this person really DID behave the way I experienced behind closed doors.  I really DID experience what it would be like to be the child in a dysfunctional ministry family.

At this point, I'm trying to get back to the place of being a person who lived my life standing on faith completely.  I laid all that down to be with Jodi and her family, in hopes that we'd travel and minister together forever.  Now, I'm finding that last little part of ME again...the spiritual, the strong, the bold part, and also letting God add some love and compassion and grace with it.

That is my reality, as I told you, but I'm glad yours turned out well in the end.

~ReallyME, L

[freeme2live]

RM - My husband bless his heart has always told me and I know he is right that when in ANY rellationship you are taking a risk to being open and exposed to that person(s). I agree with him as recently I too had been close with soneone for years and this past year have been well lets say - "Stiff armed" out of the relationship simply over a innocent mistake, and just one did me in. I am not going to diss that person for what happened, and not planning on speculating why exactly things did go the way they went.(Although that memory will always haunt me)  but we have to move on. I realised myself I'd love "justice" at one point but returned to reality and just pray one day just maybe I will be exhonerated. I am not bringing fault to myself for thinking in that way. However I've said before that in order to move on we have to make way for new friendships, and chock the one off as one where you learned from the friendship. I know in the bible there is a verse I've gone back to (if anyone here isnt a believer in the bible I mean no disrespect in quoting from it) and I will just paraphrase "What may have been meant for evil God has meant for good." So if I am at this moment looking at a bad situation and wanting to see the good - then YES I AM! People come and go but I want to look to the things that are eternal, not wanting to live in the past of "what could have been" I'd desire to be "free" of the shackles of painful memories and make a difference in someone elses life. Know what I mean? I am not a born philosopher although I've done my fair share of thinking .. lol but I do want to see good in others and never want them to see it in me!

KaChing Kaching"
my 2 cents
Free

[reallyME]

freeme2

and not planning on speculating why exactly things did go the way they went.

and I will say it again, that people who aren't here to speculate the "why" of things, will feel very out of place on this board.  That is what we DO here and it is what I plan to continue to do as long as I remain here. 

I will not stay silent anymore.

~RM