Which is better?

[DivineSunshine]

(I just want ya'll to know I am not ever male-bashing.  it just happens to be my husband who is my worst N offender.  Males in general, I am sure, are wonderful people.

So......
Which is better?  In your opinion.

Up until the last year or so, I have said almost nothing to anyone.  I have just kept my mouth shut for nearly 17 years and maintained the peace in the home as mother and wife of a very selfish angry man.  I even hate to complain and now I feel like that is what I am doing a lot of. 

I have stood up on a few occasions lately and fell apart emotionally after years of living this way, I guess I am finally cracking. ( Sometimes I feel better reading about N's and sometimes I feel worse.  Most of the time--- better.)

In my effort to make a stand, there have been some "scenes" in front of my kids.  Which is absolutely the LAST thing I wish to happen.  But having grown up in a family where emotions were not shown in ANY form, and I know this has affected me, I wonder.........

Do kids learn more by seeing me stand up for my rights or are they wounded more by hearing a fight or breakdown now and then?
Do they learn from a quiet, peaceful, orderly home or are they wounded  by my silence and obedience and complacency in the midst of the covert N abuse that we suffer.
 At least they don't have to see fighting.  I keep telling myself.  I know NOT seeing emotion at all is not great either, from my own childhood.  No love, no anger, no joy...just zombies.  Mom was the zombie looking in the mirror, ignoring the children.   I don't even know if there is a right answer to this question.  I ask myself every day.  And my mind is mush. 

Sure they have seen rage from their dad a lot. And I have had to be the "heavy" with them to keep them in line, because if I didn't do it, HE WOULD.  And that would be by far worse.  As a result of this, I have let him become the good guy and I seem like the bossy one.  All to save them from him.  Don't get me wrong, I would do it again and again for them.  I am just saying it is frustrating to always have to take the fall for him.  I cringe at them talking nasty about me when they grow up because they don't realize what I was really doing for them. But I am willing to take it.   But I am also protecting him too aren't I?   Why is this necessary?  This isn't the way it should be.  Is it EVER right---does anyone ever get it right?

If the house isn't clean enough for him.  He rages at them, but who he is really talking to--- is me.  I know it and he knows it but he can always deny it, cause after all, he didn't rage AT ME---did he?
But I can make sure it stays clean by riding the kids too hard (IMO) or just cleaning it myself and then we are all hunky dory.  Except me.  I am losing it and they are witnessing it and I just don't know if it is worth it.  Now they walk on thin ice around me because I almost have nothing left to protect them with.  My nerves are fried.  I know I need to get us all away, but I know I will have to let them see their father alone and I can't be there to be the one to take the heat.  I can't bear that right now. 

I am just tired and confused!

Namaste,

Sunny
 

[dandylife]

oh, Sunny.
You are describing my life 5 years ago. I mean EXACTLY.

It is now 2007. I got divorced in 2002.

It has taken that long to get to the point of being able to have some sense of a relationship with my N again. People can change, but it often takes a crisis situation to get them to open their eyes. It definitely took divorce, seperate living, HUGE firm boundary setting, explicit instructions about the behavior that needed to change.

And, still we struggle. I live seperately in my own apartment, but stay at the house with him a couple nights a week. This is SO difficult for him. Every time I leave to stay at my place, it's like a new breakup. But, for reason I won't go into, it's necessary at this point.

You can take control of your life. You CAN. It's totally your decision. Obviously, jumping off into the unknown is scary. But, your children are watching you, learning from you. What do you want to teach them? That it's okay to have a relationship like this? That it's okay to be treated this way? I think you would be much more effective in teaching your children that you are in control. Even the simplest things such as when he rages next, say "It is NOT okay for you to speak to me (us) that way. We are going to the park (a movie, the mall, whatever) for an hour. When we get back we can talk about this, after you are calm." And then take the kids and LEAVE.

You have no boundaries at this point. He thinks you are his arm. You do exactly what his brain tells his arm to do. If you step up and DON'T do what he tells his arm to do, it will short-circuit the program. It will change things. He will wake up and go wah? My arm did not do what I told it to. Holy sh*&.  You will have to keep this up forever. And each time he talks to you in this way, you do the same thing. "I am not willing to listen to someone raging at me. I am going to ------ until you are calm." And then do it.

He needs to learn new ways to behave. He's been allowed to act like a 2 year old dictator for years. It will take time.

But it's worth it!!

You get your pride back, your children will be proud of you and eventually, your husband will come to respect you, too.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

The other option, of course, is to decide that this is plenty of ammunition that's been used against you for long enough and leave him. I'm sure you've heard that time and again. But I KNOW how hard this actually is, like many on this board who have been in your shoes.

I wish you luck and strength in your journey!!! It is a journey that's been walked before and there is light at the end.

Dandylife

[moonlight52]

Sunny


Kids are really helped by respecting them listening to them and most of all loving them.All these things you do so well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When children are taught that their parents feelings are more important than their's that's a problem .

But children that see two loving parents have a fuss and then make up and explain to the child opps mom and dad wished they had not
got upset the child understands the truth and knows if the parents truly love each other.


so I guess I have to go with the truth and love............thats always better

oh sunny I did not understand your post he is selfish is he like that all the time??????
If he is selfish all time and you have held it in 17 years that's a long time I am sorry this is happpening.Do you think seeing a t would be good???????

moon

[isittoolate]

(DS)))))))

I believe, from my experience as a child, that the child(ren) picks up EVERYTHING that goes on around them.

I suggest that if there is a fight between the parents, that it be explained to the child(ren) immediately afterward, so that they don't end up with a wrong BELIEF about what life is all about!

During that conversaztion, the child(ren) ought to be asked what he/she was feeling during the fight!!

A couple and their children are a family and I think that it is best that each one knows the other and the feelings.

I think that siblings ought to be told that they are the ones who will know each other best for most of their lives.

They never knew their parents before they were born, and the parents will  likely die before the children.
Iz

[Sela]

Hiya Sunny:

I'm sorry you're having to live through such a hell (is there any other word for it?).

One thing I was thinking while reading your description:  You don't have to get angry or show anger at all in order to stand up for yourself and it might be best if you release your anger otherwise (through journalling, excercise, talking to a friend or other support person, etc).  You can quietly state whatever you need to and even if your H rages, you can walk away. 

Also:  again.....document document document.  Write every nasty thing he says or does to or around the kids down along with the kids reactions and include the date and time.  It may sound silly but this can indeed be used as evidence in future.  Write down the stuff he's done so far, that you remember, and keep careful track from now on.  At the very least, this record might help you with your resolve.

(((((((((Sunny)))))))))

Sela

[Hopalong]

Sunny,

I'm so sorry.

A BIG amen to what Sela said, every word. Document.

((((Sunny))))

Hops

[DivineSunshine]

Sela & Hopalong,

That is pretty much what I am using this board for. 

I have to keep thoughts and frustrations here because I tried journaling a couple of times, he found them, read them, and freaked out!  He won't allow me to write anything, or talk to anyone.  I sneak to do this.

Thanks for listening you guys!

Namaste,

Sunny

[moonlight52]

sunny

I can imagine the pain you must be feeling .
He will not let you write he will not listen to you any complaint or anything that disagrees
with him he freaks out that is not a healthy relationship not for you or him.
Have you thought  seeing a T ??????

 Finding help for your pain where ever or however is not sneaking is it ??????
how would that be sneaking you have a user name and you are seeking help??
I do hope you find your answers here.

[Sela]

Hi again Sunny:

I tried journaling a couple of times, he found them, read them, and freaked out!  He won't allow me to write anything, or talk to anyone.  I sneak to do this.

He has too much control.  It's harming you and your children....living like this.  Take some of the control back.  Can you contact a women's shelter in your area for the support you need?  They will understand and be able to help you.

Glad you can at least post here.  God bless you Sunny.  I'll keep you in my prayers.

Sela

[moonlight52]

CB     such an amazing post

thx

[DivineSunshine]

You have  ALL given me some great stuff to chew on for the weekend!  Thank you, thank you, thank you. 


I will be getting ready for company for the big game this Sun (USA).  And I will be watched  so I will check in when I can.


Thanks angels!  Have a good one!  (((((((((((((ALL OF YOU)))))))))))))

Namaste,


Sunny

[DivineSunshine]

Just wanted to post this about journaling, read it on another board/site just now. 

Relieve The Pressure Cooker

"Even though you may want to move forward in your life, you may
have one foot on the brakes. In order to be free, we must learn
how to let go. Release the hurt. Release the fear. Refuse to
entertain your old pain. The energy it takes to hang onto the
past is holding you back from a new life." -- Mary Manin
Morrissey

Journaling is a great way to release and let go. To get things
off your chest. Our minds are our own worst enemies. The same
thoughts go round and round in the same old ways and keep us
stuck.

If something bothers you, write about it. Get it out so you can
see it from a different perspective. Let it out. Let it go.

Owning and healing your pressure cooker is an important step in
claiming your power, building your esteem and making your stand.

"In truth, to attain to interior peace, one must be willing to
pass through the contrary to peace. Such is the teaching of the
Sages." -- Swami Brahmanada

www.higherawareness .com


Namaste & Peace,

Sunny

[Leah]

I have recently purchased a book on 'From Woundedness to Wholeness through Writing' 

All about how writing our stories is a Way of Healing.

Writing the Wounded Soul and Wounded Body.

Whilst Caring for ourselves as we Write.

For me personally, no matter where I write - whether here on the board, in my journal note book, on my computer, for me,
writing is a healing experience, from the pain, loss and grief.

Leah

[moonlight52]

sunny,

Writing our stories talking to t's is very healing but another way to process negative feelings and problems etc is to see we are more than "our stories" more than our shadow self more than any of "it".......
I know when right in the middle of  intense pain or confusion it is so hard to see this. Believe me I know it hurts bad. But after all  as "mum" said we are more than our stories.
For those of you that remember mum a very wise one on this board.Remembering that we are more than our stories......lets us breathe and detach  from pain.There is a point when victimhood is a place to get stuck in.
 
I am likely to get stuck again but each time I get "unstuck" I can see a little clearer with more kindness I have made the choice along with my dr to have no contact.
And I wish you much peace.

so much love  and more

moon

[GAP]

Dear Sunny,

Your story was a wonderful reminder of why I finally filed for divorce.  I could so remember the confusion, covering, questioning, and walking on eggshells I did for so many years.  If your ever decide you can't engage in the dance anymore you will be amazed at the peace you will find in life without a N.  It is an incredibly hard decision and you will know if and when it is the right decision...even if you stay forever...knowledge is power and try to learn how not to let the craziness get to you.

GAP