Which is better?

[pennyplant]

Beautiful, Sunny.  You're getting it all out there and seeing it yourself just the way it looks to an outsider.  Seeing and believing.  You're figuring it out too.  It's all about the N and always will be.  You and the kids deserve better.

Pennyplant

[DivineSunshine]

Probably the most important thing I forgot to mention and I want you all to know I realize, is that I LET HIM GET AWAY WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!

It is all I knew.  But I can't use that excuse any more.  I see that.

Sunny

[gratitude28]

Sunny,
I forgot to give you a hug.
I really, really hope you will be ready to get away from all this soon.
((((((((((((((((((Sunny)))))))))))))
Love, Beth

[DivineSunshine]

Hmmm....
Not afraid of working, worked full-time through my first two back-to-back pregnancies. I was the only one pulling in an income.  I made the mistake of trusting him and quitting my great job 13 years ago to come home and be a full-time mom.  Didn't matter though, I did full-time at home even when I worked all day anyway.  He was useless.  It's been all down hill from there.

Not really worried about getting the job issue taken care of if needed.  I have a Real Estate license as well, which I can use when I need it.  That will be good to set my own hours.

 :)That is a plus, right?

Rhetorical question...Just thinking aloud here.


Sunny

Thanks for the support EVERYONE!!

[DivineSunshine]

I found this just now on the site drirene.com that Dazed1 recommended.  Love it.  Been reading and printing stuff to read later.  Just found Sam V's stuff there and thought this was very relevant to my situation right now:  Hopefully it helps someone else out too.

Moving On

To preserve one's mental health - one must abandon the narcissist. One must move on. Moving on is a process, not a decision or an event. First, we have to acknowledge and accept reality. It is a volcanic, shattering, agonizing series of little, nibbling, thoughts and strong, voluptuous resistances. The battle won, harsh and painful realities assimilated, we can move on to the learning phase.

We label. We assemble material. We gather knowledge. We compare experiences. We digest. We have insights. Then we decide and we act. This is "to move on". Having gathered sufficient emotional sustenance, support and confidence - we leave to face the battlefields of our relationships, fortified and nurtured. This stage characterizes those who do not mourn - but fight; do not grieve - but replenish their self esteem; do not hide - but seek; do not freeze - but move on.

Sam V.

Ciao, again,

Namaste,

Sunny

[moonlight52]

Sunny

SAM v is a narcissist and a lot can be learned from him and his arrogance
I believe choosing healthy relationships is a choice and a process
How can even a toxic relationship not be mourned unless you are a n?????

I sure did like what jac said about not giving n's a chance to hurt her and would not be hurt no matter what they did.....
still bully's lie cheat mock and are cold as ice you are so much better without this kind of behavior
why should you live with this kind of deliberate cruelty.
Blessings to you
you are strong and so very very honest

moon

Quote from Sunny Quoting mr v
We label. We assemble material. We gather knowledge.

We compare experiences. We digest.

We have insights. Then we decide and we act.

This is "to move on".

Having gathered sufficient emotional sustenance, support and confidence -
 we leave to face the battlefields of our relationships, fortified and nurtured.

This stage characterizes those who do not mourn - but fight; do not grieve -
but replenish their self esteem; do not hide - but seek; do not freeze - but move on.

Sam V.
Sunny

[GAP]

Dear Sunny,

You are me three and a half years ago.  4 kids, 20 years of abuse, 3 years free.  It is hard for me to read your about your pain, it brings back so many horrible memories.  Facing the reality of your life, speaking the truth, facing your part in the dance of abuse, figuring out how to get back on track after letting a the abuser dictate so many aspects of your life, trying to get the friends that have never been in this situation understand how you stayed or ever let it get so bad, dealing with the aftermath with the kids, second guessing yourself, slipping back into the fantasy of what your thought your life was or would be.  It is a long painful processes.  Think of it like this, which diagnosis would you like from your doctor:  chronic pain for the rest of your life no matter what you did or severe pain following surgery that would eventually lead to a full recovery and pain free life.  Life with your husband will remain consistently painful and bad, life without your husband will be very painfully initially but your life will improve.

Keep up the good work.  Keep doing what your doing:  write, read, take care of yourself.  I found Malignent Self Love to be a huge help, it allowed me to understand my life with my husband, stop second guessing myself and realize it was never going to get better.  Hopefulness can be a negative thing when your apply it to a hopeless situation.

All the best, you are in my thoughts,

GAP

[Leah]

Hopefulness can be a negative thing when your apply it to a hopeless situation.

The beginning of the recovery process is when you become conscious of the fact that you have been abused by a Narcissist and come to the realization that you do not deserve to be abused.

The next step is to let go of your compulsive endeavours to 'cure' the Narcissist, and give up your hope that your parent or partner will be miraculously changed into the loving, empathic and caring person that you want him or her to be. You have most likely been trying to bring about this dream for a long long time, and it is not easy to come to the point of letting it go.  The golden rule is that if what you have been doing hasn't achieved your goal you need to stop doing it... that is logical and sensible.

Thinking of you ((( Sunny ))) knowing it isn't easy.

Your are in my thoughts and prayers,

Leah xx

[Leah]

I have had to come to terms that I should have left years earlier, as I lived a life of hopelessness in my lifelong marriage, with no compassion from my husband.  Never protected.


Love without Compassion is Possessive, Controlling, and Dangerous

Compassion is the most important emotion in intimate relationships.  It contributes far more to happiness than love does.

Relationships can be happy with low levels of love and high levels of compassion, but not the other way around.

Why is compassion so necessary for love relationships?

For one thing, it sensitizes you to the individuality and vulnerability of your loved ones. It makes you see that your partner is a different person from you, with a separate set of experiences, a different temperament, different vulnerabilities, and, in some respects, different values.

In contrast, if you feel the intensity of love without compassion, you cannot see the person your partner truly is.  You partner becomes merely a source of emotion for you, rather than a separate person in his/her own right. When your partner makes you feel good, he/she is on a pedestal. When he/she makes you feel bad, your partner becomes a demon.

Love without compassion is possessive, controlling, rejecting, and dangerous.

Compassion, on the other hand, makes you protective, rather than controlling. The difference is crucial.   

You have a right to feel protected - not hurt.

[GAP]

Brilliant insights on compassion.  I think empathy or respect along with love would go along way to building a strong relationship.  Narcissist are not capable of either.

[Sela]

Hiya Sunny:

Thanks for talking about your experience with the T.  I'm glad he helped you and sorry you don't have him to support you now.  I really hope you will contact a women's shelter, as there are definately people there who will offer you, at the very least, some real life support.  You don't have to do this alone.

Good for you for posting all you have and for getting all of that out!  It's so much better out than in eh?  Keep going if you want/need to and it helps!! 

....I LET HIM GET AWAY WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!

It is all I knew.  But I can't use that excuse any more.  I see that.

That's one way of looking at it (very popular too, I think).

Another might be:

People change.  That was then.  This is now.  You are changing, have changed and will keep changing.  For the purposes of not beating yourself up, at a time when you most need all of the stamina you can muster, you can choose to see the past as an experience that didn't turn out the way you expected/wanted/anticipated, which you are taking steps to change/improve.....for the betterment of yourself and your children.  In a way, maybe Sam is right to suggest leaving the grieving, blaming, learning, whatnot....mostly for later.  Right now, it's good that you recognize that you need to choose to act, rather than simply tolerate further abuse.   That might help you to keep taking those small steps.

But thinking of yourself as an excuse maker, may not help.  How about as a survivor who is planning escape?  Brave, strong, keen and yes....compassionate (toward your children and yes, yourself too)???

Sela

[birdy750]

Hi--I'd just like to share a book for those more inclined to draw than write!! It's called "Art a Way of Knowing"--a guide to self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment through creativity. Here are the stats:

Publisher's Note
With practical exercises, inspirational guidance and the author's own experiences as an artist and art therapist, this book shows how creativity can be a path to self dicovery. Allen includes information on materials and methods, plus ideas for projects using art to help express emotions.

 
Industry reviews
"Though she is quick to share the joy that comes from creative self-expression, Allen is also willing to reveal the turbulence and struggle inherent in the process."
Reasoner
 

[Leah]

Hi--I'd just like to share a book for those more inclined to draw than write!! It's called "Art a Way of Knowing"--a guide to self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment through creativity. Here are the stats:

Publisher's Note
With practical exercises, inspirational guidance and the author's own experiences as an artist and art therapist, this book shows how creativity can be a path to self dicovery. Allen includes information on materials and methods, plus ideas for projects using art to help express emotions.

 
Industry reviews
"Though she is quick to share the joy that comes from creative self-expression, Allen is also willing to reveal the turbulence and struggle inherent in the process."
Reasoner

Wow!  Thanks for posting this Birdy750

Been sitting here looking at a book I picked up recently at a book stall (can't resist them!) wondering why on earth I bought as I can't even draw a cat!   It's an intro to watercolour painting - pretty book!

Maybe I should have a dabble after all then 

Take care,

Leah

[DivineSunshine]

Birdy,

Me too,  I have recently been toying with the idea of using some of my artistic side to help me cope and release anger and what-not.  I wasn't ever great or anything, but I loved drawing, pottery, watercolors, flowers arrangments, even jewelry design using stones known in the mystical world for healing, protection and temperment aides.  Haven't done the latter, but I wear some of said jewelry I got elsewhere and I LOVE the idea.

Good suggestion!  It is an aspect of me I let go long ago, I think because I had to be so "in the game" with my left brain to cope with the N's in my life, that I almost let that interest die along with many other things I almost have let "die".

Sounds like another book I need to check out.

Namaste,

Sunny

[Hopalong]

Hi Sunny,
Just wanted to tell you how eccentric I'm becoming in my room, here...

Was thinking about the board this morning and when I passed a mirror I clasped my hands and bowed to myself, saying Namaste. (That's not my custom when I look in the mirror!) Before I got self-conscious and laughed at myself, there was a second when it felt really good. Like a kind greeting, a blessing.

Thanks for helping that surface.

Hops