C0-NARCISSISM

[Overcomer]

GS:  I am so glad I found this link and that you so eloquently read it and commented on it.  I am about to cry as I realized that your last post could have been written by me.  I just let my mom know I am looking for other jobs and do you all know, I was back peddling until this weekend.  She had me feeling guilty.  I started second guessing my decision to move on.  I looked up and thought, "Maybe God is making this whole job process move so slowly so that I don't do something irrational.........."  I told you all that I have cut off my nose to spite my face before and I think my nmom uses my history as ammunition to make me doubt myself now.  No matter how rational I feel, after a conversation with her I have much self-doubt.

The first paragraph about the king and the disrepair and how the king would rather have the palace fall apart than to give it up to the heirs?  That is me.  I could run our business so much better than she but she cannot risk me doing a better job than her.  She would rather spend her millions trying to create the illusion of success than allowing success to happen and someone other than her to take the credit.

The negative body image?  Me, too.  Somehow I cannot be pretty around her.  She has sufficiently robbed me of any self worth.  It has become a self fulfilling prophecy.  But since I have applied for this job, I have found myself going to the mall and buying myself a new Coach purse.  I went to the beauty store and bought myself some expensive, salon quality hair spray and some new fingernail polish.  I have been spending time doing my hair so it looks really nice.  I have been doing things FOR ME.  It feels good.

I also relate to having a parent with millions of dollars who could give my brother and I enough money to retire on now.  But she has said we are not ready for that.  We have not earned the right because we don't do as she wishes.  In other words, if we did as she wishes she would bless us.  But the problem is, even if we tried to do as she wished, it would never be right..................so we lose either way.  Oh, she loves to give us money when we "need" it.  Somehow she feels altruistic if she throws us a bone.  She uses her money to shine the spotlight on herself.

So after reading GS's last post, I was awakened by my lunacy to maybe stay where I am because I may be running headlong into another "cut off your nose to spite your face" scenario.  But I realize that she is using her tactics against me again and I am falling for them.  That is why I was doing this all behind her back.  Because I know how she is and I cannot allow her to derail my plans for freedom.  But then I feel guilty like I have to inform her of my intentions.  So I tell her and take a risk.  But I am proud of myself for looking her in the eye and saying 'I WON'T DO IT ANYMORE." 

Thank you for slapping me back into reality.  Now - new job - come and get me!

[Gaining Strength]

Kell - I cannot tell you how many families I have seen this in.  It is so very hard to take in even when it happens to you.  That is part  of what has kept me stuck - it is incomprehensible that parents would do this to their own offspring, much less siblings.  And because it is incomprehensible it is easier for many of us to doubt it even when the evidence is so blatantly clear.  Society also does a double whammy, always believing that no parent would do such a thing unless a child deserved it and seeing any behavior to justify their position.  It is a terrible, terrible thing and so very, very difficult to see, to acknowledge and to get free of.

But that's what we are here to do - to get free.  We can do it.  We can help each other. - GS

[Hopalong]

Oh hell yes, GS. I daydream of kind men like my Dad. (I don't reallly need one to do my paperwork, though.) But the daydream is just interacting, talking, laughing with a kind man who sees me breathe.

I am so awed by your post. You DO have the key. You have seen.

When you begin to turn down the gifts, you will be free.

Hmm. Fixing the heat. You are so smart and skilled. One thing we're beginning at my church is a sort of "Barter Board". Well, actuallly, it does involve giving money to the church, but I really like the idea of pure barter. I got my job by offering my skills in barter to my boss!!

So I'm wondering. One way around fear of chaos is to help someone else with THEIR chaos. Could you do this? Could you approach several local plumbing companies and ask for a brief appointment with the owner. There you are, in your best hat and gloves  . And you say:

I have a proposal for you. I need to have my furnace repaired and I cannot pay. I am intelligent, I learn quickly, and I'm good at organizing other people's files. I can answer the phone, file, take orders. I would like to know if I could offer you my office skills free of charge for two weeks in exchange for having my heating repaired.

(Owner #1 says, sorry, can't do that, of course. But GS is not deterred or shamed, simply says thank you anyway, and moves on to Owner #2...) Just a fantasy. I'm prone.

Hops

[Hopalong]

Kelly,
Good for you!

Boy, does everybody have their eyes wide open this Sunday morning?
That's what it feels like here!

Wonderful, wonderful thread.

And by the way, WELCOME, TOODLES.

I'm sorry I forgot to say that before.

Hopalong

[axa]

Hops,

Not sure about the dirt bikes, could do the scarves, Isadora liked a little nude dancing also if I am not mistaken........ now that I have dropped 30 pounds, maybe............. on second thoughts, a bit wrinkly so maybe not.

On the note of the topic I decided to take some care of myself on friday and called a friend.  Ended up staying with her for the weekend, ran on the beach with amazing waves pounding on the beach, talked, had good food, some wine, and good company.  I made the choice to move out of my lethargy, take care of myself and have a good time.  It does work.  I need to remember this and not waste my energy on obsessing about XN and what might have been.

xxx axa

[Gaining Strength]

CB123

If your dad is going to consistently go after your son, you may have to look at NO contact.  I can't tell exactly what your relationship is with your dad (you did go to dinner with him for his birthday, so you may have some kind of relationship with him).

I seldom see my father and my son sees him even less (3 or 4 times this past year.)  I was disappointed that my father wasn't much of a grandfather to my son but that was before I really understood about NPD.  One other time my father had done something like that to my child.  It was a year and a half ago and there were only 4 of us.  I never imagined that at a table of 8 that my son would even be on his radar.  There is a profound sadness in this whole state of affairs but I do see that there is a way out.  I must set my sights beyond what "family" is for me now.  I have done this long, long ago but it was with "false" hope of getting out.  I tried to establish a "family" of my own but, not surprisingly, I picked poorly.  This article Kell posted has really shone a light on somethings that I couldn't quite put my finger on.  I am going to build on those and keep looking for other signposts as I go along.  - GS

[Overcomer]

My nmom just called and asked if she could come over and see my youngest daughter.  I said no.  The house is a wreck.  She still has on pajamas.  Her hair isn't brushed.  We  are not taking guests right now.  My middle child brought over a couple of friends and I was so angry with her.  My oldest child just moved back from college so her whole dorm room is in the living room.  Her refrigerator is in the entry.  She cleaned her room and left all the crap out in the hall.  So my middle child brings guests over?  It looks like a bomb hit the house.  Is anyone else uncomfortable with that?? 

So I am a bit bent out of shape.  This weekend has been an eye opener.  Sometimes I wonder if I have a problem.  It seems I cannot hold it all together.  My kids have not been trained by me to pick up after themselves so if I don't do it, it doesn't get done!!

Sometimes I think my mom should look at how messy my house is and offer to hire a housekeeper for me.  She knows I need help but won't do a thing to help me.  I just cannot fathom how this woman can hire someone to repaint and redecorate her house, come and go as she pleases at work and has her 91 year old mother come over to help her clean her house, put her Christmas stuff away, etc.  But meanwhile I am expected to go to work everyday, and then go home and clean and do laundry and cart the kids around.  I do it all and live paycheck to paycheck.  And then she is offended because I say we are not taking guests today.

Oh well.  If she won't help me, I won't help her.  I am so out of there.  OK, you all can tell I am PMSing.  Everything seems so overwhelming right now.  I am so angry with my mom and I want to run away but I know this is irrational behavior and I have to settle myself down so I don't do that knee jerk reaction stuff!!!!!!!!

[Dazed1]

Hi GS,

Quick post cuz I have to run.

RE: your father's behavior with your son at the restaurant, I think that your father thought that what he was doing was the "right thing to do". I believe that your dad thought that he was modeling masculine behavior for your son, showing your son how to be a "man", giving your son "disipline" to make him "strong", etc.

Ns are clueless as to the true effect of how their behavior effects others.  You dad probably (no, definately) didn't see the hurt and damage he inflicted on your son, just as he failed to do so with you.

Oh GS, I think your bursting with insight.  Keep going.

Love,
dazed

[Dazed1]

Oh Kell,

You must feel like banging your head into a wall.  I can just imagine.  take a deep breath and do the best you can.

Maybe just explain house is too crazy right now for Nmom's visit:  Boundaries.

gotta run.

love,
dazed

[Overcomer]

YES, IT is boundaries.  Boundaries with my daughter, too.  I made them leave and go over to my nnom's house!!!   I told Chelsea I would not have guests with the house looking so yucky.  All I ask is a couple hour notice so I can spot clean......pick up toys, etc.

I told ya about my concussions.    

Well, I am feeling a bit better.  I am back to the "you can squirm and you can complain and you can manipulate and you can be sarcastic and you can be belittling and you can be frustrated" but you are still not coming over!

[Gaining Strength]

These traits will lead the parent to be very intrusive in some ways, and entirely neglectful in others.

The trap for me has been in the “neglectful” areas, the areas of silence.  The intrusive areas resulted in a reaction, a pushing back, the neglect resulted in paralysis.

For many years, perhaps forever, my family functioning has been to talk about me not to me.  This includes a period, less than a year after my husband died, when our son was a toddler, that I was having a manic reaction to medications.  It was a disastrous time for me personally and for my work which eventually collapsed as a result.  The group I socialized with completely abandoned me except to talk about me among themselves and my family who tried to take my son from me and who succeeded in closing down the non-profit that I started and ran.  None of those involved have ever had the courage or courtesy to talk with me about any of it.  My therapist stepped in and completely saved me.  He tried to intervene with the Board of Directors, which was riddled with family and friends.  He was unsuccessful but ironically those who stood by me on the Board were people with whom I had had no previous relationship. 

I bring up all of this "old" stuff because I recognize how the power of this ties into this "neglect" and as the power of this is beginning to loosen its grip on me, I am able to see how fear and shame, et. al. on top of the N parenting has ground me to a paralyzed halt. 

from CB123's Stockholm syndrome - As we have found throughout history, the more dysfunctional the situation, the more dysfunctional our adaptation and thoughts to survive.

It has something to do with reaching out for help has led to sabotage for me, significant, debilitating sabotage.  The need for help - real help - has been like revealing my vulnerabilities in war. 

The need for help - paralyzing perfectionism - sabotage from friends and family.  Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage. 

I needed a new structure within which to work.  I have one now.  I have to "rebuild" by myself because the risk of sabotage is far to great, far too real.  There has been nothing "benign" about neglect in my life.  I have to transform myself out of the dark, low energy levels of shame and fear and failure to the higher levels of joy and accomplishment.    The anonymity of this place keeps the wolves at bay and allows me to shed the dark shadows without reprisals.

Being able to bring MY story, from MY perspective alone, is extremely helpful in this healing process.

[Dazed1]

GS,

I bring up all of this "old" stuff

Bring up as much old stuff as you like.  We all need to process the "old" stuff, otherwise, we can't move forward.

Oh (((((((((((GS)))))))))), your parents tried to take your son from you and they closed down your business?????????????????????????? 

You lost your H when your son was a baby:  Who wouldn't go crazy under those circumstances?  But, instead of giving you love and support, they sabotaged you.

GS, it's AMAZING that you are still here and that they didn't suceed in DESTROYING YOU!!!!!!!!    YOU ARE A VERY STRONG PERSON.

Lord, GS, now I have a better understanding of what you've been thru and you've been thru A LOT.  Not that I'm making you into a victim, because clearly, you are a survivor and you are becoming a thriver.

GS, pardon me for being blunt, but, your family and friends who conspired to destroy you were/are a bunch of bastards.   

I am sorry if I'm inciting you.  I want to validate your pain from going thru all you have gone thru.

GS, I have such compassion for you and belief in you.

Love,
dazed

[Gaining Strength]

GS, pardon me for being blunt, but, your family and friends who conspired to destroy you were/are a bunch of bastards.  

LOL Dazed! YES they are! 

Not that I'm making you into a victim, because clearly, you are a survivor and you are becoming a thriver.

Yeah, I'm turning that corner.  It is a very strange feeling.  I'm being very cautious, as though I am walking for the first time in weeks.
Thanks Dazed.  I feel very quiet today, as if this new me needs total concentration to keep balanced.