Author Topic: what you dont have  (Read 5651 times)

WRITE

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 10:32:03 AM »
What we think about our selves is what becomes our self esteem.

well put Lupita. So low self-esteem is having displaced/replaced this with someone else's description of us sort-of?

continue to share that line of thinking about your grandfather.  I suspect there is a lot there.

hi Bean, welcome back ((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hope you and boyfriend settle down again soon, you've been through this before?

Yes, it's my breaking point of accepting this particular dysfunctional attraction I think- my grandfather was extremely ambivalent too, we were simultaneously worshipped and rejected in his presence and always competing with him for attention in the situation. He was the first person in my life who absolutely had to hold all the power or he sulked. But he was attractive to me on some level because he contained the key to who I would grow up to be, to escape that life. He was the first person who showed me you can create your own world outside of your current experiences, that because your culture is repressed or difficult you can go seek something outside of it.

My grandfather set the pattern for how I relate to men I think.

I was held accountable subconsciously for the family breakdown around him though...my questions and voicing things 'which should not be said' was always a problem, and even now like last nigth the same topic came up around ex's sister and all her years of taking money from us and others in the family.

I told ex 'let's talk about it like it is even if we don't intend to talk openly to them...'

I absolutely think someone else can make you unhappy.

oh yes.
Any relationship is some sort of commitment to another and whenever it displaces the commitment to ourselves that's unhappy.

Like hops says though...eventually it comes down to a choice.

But the interim if you get caught up in someone's ambivalence or acting out can be very painful.

I think that's why I am actively avoiding commitment rightnow.
My T says it's practical, whilst I rework my life!


James73

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 04:47:30 PM »
Hey Write thanks for your support and Im with you at the moment, no relationships for me until Im happy with me and secure in myself so Im right there with ya  :)

Thanks Bean I hope they do, but as you say if they dont then theyre not real friends are they  :| I hope you sort things out with your BF, whether its sort things out or get rid of him, i hope you get some peace and happiness. People can definitely make us unhappy, if they do we must pinpoint what makes us unhappy and solve it as unhappiness should not be a long term thing as its not good or healthy.

Hi Lupita nice to meet you  :D your CD sounds great, think I might try one out!  :P

Love to all
James

Hopalong

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 10:10:02 PM »
Write, i think it's a huge realization you've articulated, about what your grandfather planted in you:
Quote
we were simultaneously worshipped and rejected in his presence and always competing with him for attention in the situation

I so totally believe you are a gardener and you will be able to remove this toxic invader in your psyche. Doesn't matter how long it's been there...it's contradictory to your happiness, so it's gotta go.

that's really a huge thing. Kudos to you.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

WRITE

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 11:58:14 AM »
I so totally believe you are a gardener

thanks Hops, and I am going to be a real gardner soon too, to grow some green things just for the sake of watching things grow and setting down some roots, however tenuous in this infertile soil  :)

MY grandfather and this pattern of attraction to Ns is the last piece of the puzzle, I finally don't hurt to think about all the stuff which happened probably because of his behaviour and the damaged relationships to follow.

All the alcohol and alcoholism in our family.....all the distorted thinking and skewed relationships.

It's wonderful now most of all that I can be home of an evening alone in my pretty little apartment and just 'be' with no pain or loneliness or even if there is, a few tears then do something constructive.

Now I have the emotional space to really be a writer....before I would get in too much of a state to be alone with myself too long.

I sense some big personal projects coming up, and I have already started composing for a friend's retirement.

The friend who was so insulting rememebr two or three years ago, said he could never be my friend.

Life comes full circle- if we let it.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Love to everyone, off to a Mediteranean buffet for lunch with one of my favourite friends. She has bipolar and we just can share that side of ourselves without worrying, it's so neat.

James, you have good friends here until you're ready for a more wordly expedition!

axa

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 12:22:44 PM »
Can others make you unhappy.

i know I have written about this before but for me it is where the problems occur. If I am with someone who I find offensive in a work situation.  I make a choice to have as little to do with that person as possible.  I cannot change them or their attitude but I will not collude with their rudeness etc.  I have good boundaries in this area.

Show me a relationship and the same situation and I stay and stay and stay.  I think that the person in the work situation does not make me unhappy.  The red flags go up and I act on them.  I see what is going on and I care for myself.  I do the opposite in a relationship i crave to be the fixer, to rewrite history to prove that love conquers all.  I think it is the staying in the abusive relationship makes me unhappy and that is where I make the bad choices.  Does this make sense.  I am sooooooooo trying to take responsibility for my feelings and behaviour here.

Axa

moonlight52

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 01:22:40 PM »
The more i want the less i have


Kindness held is the seed
Kindness shared is the flower

My experience is relationships matter not things and i am grateful to have had this lesson.

moonlight

moonlight52

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 01:32:16 PM »
Hey CB,
The love that conquers all is found within once that balance is found things fall into place and whatever struggles comes our way can be better understood.

What if the "love conquers all"
CB
If you can learn from hard knocks you can also learn from soft touches .Let's hope looking within and starting there we find more soft touches.
moon

Hopalong

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2007, 07:21:26 PM »
CB, how can you be so smart?
YES.

Moon,
You are a soft touch on the heart.

love y'all.
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

axa

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2007, 06:52:29 AM »
CB

I do believe it is all connected up with myths/fairytales.  And in the end they all live happily ever after........ its what I have been chasing.  Where I am right now is the nearest I have come to happy ever after and it is NOT in a relationship or should I say I am now in a relationship with myself.  A very different place.  I always felt I was waiting and hoping for the "good ending".  It is very childlike thinking.  Forgetting that life is a process, it does not stop until I am dead and meanwhile it meanders on. 

I also think part of the myth is tied up with another making me happy.  if I am good enough, wait long enough, suffer enough then they will see me and off we will ride into the sunset.  Well, Bull as far as I am concerned. 

I remember reading fairy stories to my kids and when it would come to the And they all lived happily ever after bit, I would add that that does not necessirily happen..........wish I had listened to myself.

axa

cats paw

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2007, 11:35:39 AM »
Axa,

  I was just wondering about this (again) the other day- and there it is- in what you wrote.  I, too, have always had good boundaries at work and in other situations.  It's a totally different situation with my mother.

  It was such a different experience to hear Hopalong say- yes- someone can make you unhappy, and it's not fashionable to say that.

  On a strictly cognitive level, yes, I can see that what we tell ourselves about a situation, how we (choose) to interpret it results in how we feel about a situation, etc.  And that no one is responsible for our feelings or wellbeing but ourself, etc. 

   But when someone causes hurt, either deliberately or unconsciously, aren't we taking responsibility we we yell "OUCH"  without having to stop and ask ourselves if we're taking responsibility for our own thoughts and feelings?

   I'm being simplistic, and so many of you are past connecting with that first loud OUCH, or the final one, or the accumulated ones that led to action.  If I recall correctly, Axa, didn't you write somewhere that you came to a different place about your feelings related to your mother , but years later?  You took responsibilty for your thoughts and feelings then, and I guess I'm saying that
you must be doing it now, too in relation to your feelings about your XN.

   What a good mom you were being when you told your kids that it does not necessarily happen when you read them those fairy stories.  And - again if I remember correctly from my lurking days-  how you experienced it firsthand with the loss of your sweet daughter.  It sounds like she was (IS) a special person.

    But with her, I truly hope that it is, or can become, a real version of happily ever for you.  If I remember, it seemed a bit like that what you wrote about her.  If I have overstepped by referring to her, please let me know.  I think you said that your XN acted like he knew her?    It is my hope for myself, and for all of us, we can learn that despite our pain, or maybe because of it, in retrospect, it will someday be happily ever after, and it is indeed becoming that now, and it is that now.  Even with the N's or XN's or the Nish or other just plain old flawed human beings in our life, including ourselves, I hope that I borrow that phrase that the "kids" popularized - "Hey- it all good!"

     I want to believe in the possibility of myths and fairy tales, or at least what they represent, or could be.  I know some of you might take issue with "Harry Potter" but I do want to refer to it.  There is the evil Lord Voldemort who was referred to as "He Who Must Not Be Named."  Harry found the courage to speak what must be named.  He used his voice.

     Has anyone ever read "Women Who Run With The Wolves"?  It's about myths, with giving attention to the ways women have been taught, and ways that we can examine those archetypes.  I read it a long time ago, but I think the author stresses the need women have to trust their own natural self protective "instincts" that get bred out of us when we become too domesticated.

   
cats paw

         




WRITE

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2007, 12:59:50 PM »
Where I am right now is the nearest I have come to happy ever after and it is NOT in a relationship or should I say I am now in a relationship with myself.

I have been rereading 'Escape from Intimacy' and that is all about replacing this search for relationship with another with awareness of and thus relationship with self.

I have to agree Axa.

More and more I am  finding myself busy with meaningful things to me, just happily passing the hours. Eating well. Exercising. Sleepign well. Walkign in nature. Watching a movie. Reading. Painting or writing....

I don't think I have ever spent calm leisure time away from people who disturb my sense of peace before.

My family and husband even my son to some extent have always been so demanding.

My son is a rewarding relationship but even so it was so much giving and self-sacrifice.

I never had this chance to build up me before, to recover from traumas, to just be....

Glad you're feeling that too Axa.

Fort he longest time I hated down-time and alone time, it was too painful and made me agitated, even triggered bipolar.

It's so nice now to light a candle, cook a simple meal, occupy my time with my stuff...be on my own schedule.

It is a first!

axa

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2007, 05:49:08 AM »
Cats Paw,

In relation to my Mother.  I was scared of her, even as an adult she frightened me so much.  I related to her from the place of a small child.  When she was dying I spent some time at her bedside and saw a tiny frail woman.  She could not speak.  I felt safe, touched her for the first time I can remember.  I realised it was her words which wounded me and after years of therapy I see that she was acting out her anger and frustration on me.  It does not make it ok but she paid a heavy price:  she was angry all of her life.  She was very N and I know that my N attraction has been about rewriting my history with her.  The book is closed.  She is gone and I am healing.  I do not feel anger towards her anymore, just sadness that she could never see me and I did not have a real mother.  I also accept this is how it is and I am claiming my own life now.

With regard to my daughter I just feel she is not ill anymore and that helps me so much.  I know she is safe......... whatever that means and somehow that is enough for me.

I think I am my happy ever after and that is what I am working on here and in my life.  I have the book you mentioned on my book shelf.  Bought it years and years ago gathering dust at the moment.

Write

Escape from Intimacy, thanks Hops, has been a real eye opener for me.  I admitted that I am an addict while reading it and so need to tread so carefully.  I kinda like me.......... nice to say that, warts and all!  I was terrified of downtime, always running around staying busy, staying away from the aloneness but I learned the only way through this is to feel it, wail, scream, cry, feel every horrible part of it and slowly its energy disapates.

Well done Write............ such a shame we were so afraid of ourselves for so long.


axa

Lupita

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2007, 11:17:14 AM »
Dear CB:
Talking about Cinderella, I read about a symdrome or Cinderella, when mother loves the other sisters and gives you a lot of work and not to the other sisters, my mother was a Cinderella, my Grandmother was a Cinderella and I was a Cinderella. How about that?
Repeated over and over again. Hummm!! My sister and borther were treated differently. My brother was taught to drive bicicle by a hired person. They put me in the bicicle and pushed me until I fell many times, five years old and they did not care to scare me, to hurt me, my knees bleeding and they did not even consolate me after my falloings. Swim, they threw mw in the water and sawllow water, and only took me out when they saw I was drwoning. I learned. My mother protected my sister from pain. Not me.
see?
I call it Cinderella.

What do you think?

Lupita
Lupita

debkor

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2007, 12:22:22 PM »
Lupita,

Maybe your mom saw that you were as beautiful as you are.  Maybe she was jealous of you? 

Maybe she saw herself (in you as a child).  Maybe what she did to you or did not do for you was (unconscious).  Maybe she was doing it all over to herself and just using you by proxy.
Maybe she was repeating what was done to her.
She may have been abusing herself through you just like (possibly) she was by her mom as a child.

Verbal abuse to Lupita = Verbal abuse to herself.
Being the child left out, Lupita = The child she was (felt) left out by her mom.
And So on.

Do you think this may have been the case Lupita?

I know you suffered terribly and I am very sorry for that.
If you can put it together, solve the puzzle, maybe you can understand it a little better and know it was not really you.
It was her and the problems she brought into her motherhood by the way she was mothered, maybe? You think?

Love
Deb

teartracks

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Re: what you dont have
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2007, 11:49:05 PM »


I want/I need.

In making decisions, the body (flesh) will always vote with the world (immediate gratification, pleasure, etc.)

The spirit will always vote for the right moral choice.

The mind becomes the swing vote. 

tt