Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~

[isittoolate]

Hi all--are you keeping track of my Therapy days?-- 7 under my belt now

My father was a rageholic and I just climbed into my little hidey-hole, to become a nobody. I never liked my father. I never loved my father. I was glad when he died and I never grieved for him.

My daughter meets an N (before I know about N-ism) and I don’t like him. I ask her to please not marry him. He already had her under his thumb and then he had me by the short hairs. He was a rager too, as time would prove.

I could not stand up to raging. It made me shrivel and hide away inside.

When SIL kicked me out, and I drove away from my daughter and my 2 grandchildren, my spirit was broken. (Okay okay Poor me!!) 3rd grandchild would arrive the next year!

I never thought of this as abandoning my daughter. I thought I was leaving her with her husband and children and I was on the outside. Just because she never told me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I drove away and left her trapped with him, no sitter for the kids and she and I lost contact.

I abandoned her for the second time.

The first time was when she was 5 and I was in the car crash and gone for a year.

I can see it—my Therapist and I were working with this last week and again today.

My daughter resents me for abandoning her and the children to be left with an N.

NOW!! No negative words re my daughter, so be kind with responses, please! Would you have resented your mother’s leaving you, to never return, with an N husband and 2 little children while you were being emotionally abused, but you hadn’t told your mother?

Then said mother (Me-IzzY) moves 2000 miles away with an N--- and is now putting all the pieces together--after being in a rageful situation for the third time

May the Good Lord have Mercy on this wretched soul!!

Love and Hugs
Izzy

[teartracks]

((((((((((((((((((((Iz, Daughter, Grandchildren))))))))))))))))))))))),
tt

[pennyplant]

Izzy, I won't pretend to speak for you daughter but I can comment on my opinion from some of the stories you have shared about her. 

It seems to me like she is in touch with her feelings better than I ever was growing up.  She shows some spirit in my opinion. 

I think to myself that I would never have thought my mother abandoned me if she suffered what you have suffered. 

But..... my job as a child should have been to be kind of selfish.  Even if it would have been factually wrong for me to blame my mother and feel abandoned when none of those events was her fault, it would have been better for my spirit to have felt abandoned and angry about it because it would then mean I thought I had some worth.  So, I see your daughter as feeling as though she has value in this world.

And eventually she may come to see that she knows she has value because of the way you, her mother, raised her and loved her to the best of your ability.

I think you and she may be farther along in improving your relationship than it might seem.  Or at least, there is more potential than it might seem, because she values herself.  She sounds strong inside.  Not mush like me.  Seems to me you had something to do with that good stuff inside of her.  Hopefully someday she will get to that particular knowledge.

Pennyplant

[isittoolate]

Thank you besee, tt and pp,

The next things I have to tell the Therapist will be…….maybe…………..brand new for her. I am just trying to not overwhelm her with everything at once. I am making a list by year, from 1991-1998.

I told her she could “beat me down” whenever because I really need to know where I went wrong.

No 1 was… My daughter resents me for abandoning her and the children to be left with an N.

I can see that clearly, true or not!!

And pp

she is in touch with her feelings better than I ever was growing up

That is so true and I know it, so I thought I was being a better mother than mine was. Today my therapist said that my mother didn’t deserve to be called a mother! Wow! What a statement!

Can you extrapolate on this comment, please, pp?
…….angry about it because it would then mean I thought I had some worth.

I feel full hope regarding your last paragraph, pp!

Love
Izzy


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[Overcomer]

Iz:  Remember when I asked you If you might have done something and then the thread got locked?  I was trying to get you to see if maybe you had done something to make your daughter resent you even if you didnt realize it?  I know my mom does not really mean to make me feel bad or that she is an evil person-but now that she knows how she affects me and refuses to change She now is responsible for her behavior.  You will not abandon her ifyou know it hurts.

[Hopalong]

Huge BRAVOS to you Izzy. What amazing work.

And ditto every word PP said (except the "mush like me" part, PP...)

xxoo
Hops

[isittoolate]

Hi OC,

I remember that, but I was not able, without the guidance of my Therapist, as I related the story step by step to see what could have been a truth right in front of my eyes, that I couldn't see! I have asked her to not spare my feelings, to dump it all on me when she hears the story and there is another perspective.

I am searching for the truth, and if I tell my story to the Therapist, in chronological order, she can put a spin on it that I might never have seen, as just a mother--just as she did with my driving away that day.

I will not abandon my daughter, but if I, raised by my 'whatever' mother, have been/done something I did NOT recognize that hurt my daughter enough to have her leave me, in spite of, I will have to accept it.

She and have still to have an honest, no fighting, conversation, but I cannot see when!!

THanks for your visit Hops

Yes I believe there is hope for both of us, but there is much.............okay, I will use it....................... mush to go through!
0XXoXooooooxxXXXXOOOOO
Izzy

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[debkor]

Izzy,

Do you think your daughter cannot put her finger on whats wrong, really wrong with yours and her relationship? 
Maybe she has a lock box of her own?

Mothers and daughters sometimes lock horns they are so much alike.  I see so much of me in my daughter.  She's a better version but boy oh boy it is like arguing with myself at times.

Love
Deb

[isittoolate]

Hi deb,
My daughter has her own set of brains and I can see that she met up with an N so young in life that she might not have had enough chance to analyze what was transpiring., when he scrambled her thoughts so quickly.

She might not know, just as much as I don't know for sure, after all my years of analyzing the situation.

Some thing s, I expect, will be difficult for us to admit, face to face, whatever they are!

xxoo
Izzy

[debkor]

Izzy,

Ya, I hear ya.  I think back when I met my N I was not as young as your daughter but young, 24.  I would bitch and cry to my sister and defend him at the same time.
I am sorry for your daughter.  We all know the pain of hooking up with an N.  They can really screw with your mind as he did with hers.  She saw love, he saw prey.  Someone to control and mold the way he wanted.  I think that is what I get from what you post.

You and your daughter has been through some very traumatic experiences.  You survived and had a normal/loving  relationship, am I right, up until she met this N who gave her a life of hell starting from a very young age. 

I know you spoke of her having abandonment feelings when she was five and you were in the hospital for a year.  So did you, didn't you?  Didn't you say that they didn't bring your daughter often to see you.  I'm sure that took a toll on you  and her.  What could you do?  You had to recover.  What could she do, she was five.  Everyone controlled your well being at that time, both of you. You both depended on people.  You had no choice at the time. 

You both got your life back together until N came along and snatched up your baby again.  You knew he was a shit and tried to get through to her knowing she was in Love and nothing you were going to say was going to change it.  So you bit the bullet and swallowed your heart for the love of your daughter.
He told you to leave, get out, you did. 
Do you think Izzy you felt abandoned . You had no choice?  He was in control. It was his house, his wife, his children and she did not fight him on it.

She might of felt that she had no choice again like she was five when you had to stay away and other family members took care of her. They made her choices when she would see you, how she would live, where she would live.
This was her family now. Who does she choose?  Does she say, you stay, he goes.  He stays, you go?  Maybe she felt she couldn't make a choice. Maybe she thought she' didn't have one.  Maybe she didn't want a choice she wanted someone to make it for her. 
Maybe part of her is still 5years old unconsciously. This conflict brought back some deep hidden issues  (feelings) of abandoment for her? Issues she does not even know she has.

I don't know Izzy.  I have just been thinking about it.

I do know you are a good person Izzy. You are searching to see where it went wrong. I really want for you and your daughter/grandchildren to get back together again.

Love
Deb

[Gaining Strength]

Izzy - I suspect the abandonment your therapist suggests is not something ever "thought" but was processed on an unconscious level.  We all give and take offense at things that were not necessarily intentional.  But our wounds are not determined by intent.  I am convinced that healing requires letting go of resentment and fear but that it is much more difficult than it sounds.

As I read  your first post in this thread I find such joy in seeing the astonishing changes and healing and I think about your first post and your moniker - Is it too late?  I remember the board's resounding response, "NO" and I hear that response echo in your own words today.

I so admire your willingness and your ability to see through your daughter's eyes.  I give thanks for the amazing process you are sharing with us.  Much joy to you - Gaining Strength

[isittoolate]

Hiya Deb

You have summarized everything so well, and also see that we have both had abandonment issues with each other.

She at age 5 and, yes, other people were running her life, as I was a "bit outta whack" for decision-making, for about 3 months, but then i chose forr her to go back to her before-sitter to live and begin kindergarten in out home town.

The part I missed was  that I abandoned her when I drove away that day, but she was with her husband and children and I was now on my own so, yes, I took it as she had abandoned me, but I missed the fact that I abandoned her, because she was trapped with an N. Why not come to me before? Because I had asked her to not marry him. It's tough for anyone to admit being wrong in certain life-altering situations.

Maybe part of her is still 5years old unconsciously. This conflict brought back some deep hidden issues  (feelings) of abandoment for her? Issues she does not even know she has.

Very interesting concept.

Thank you for thinking about it and seeing the detail to this
love
Izzy

[isittoolate]

Thank you CB

Yes this has transpired over an number of years, and I even mentioned to the Therapist that she might have abandonment issues regarding her father, as I left him when she was 2˝. She mentioned him on occasion, one being at age 14, when she was receiving 4 awards upon graduation from Grade 8 and wanted him to attend. It was quite the conversation in trying to explain that he had no car and no money to attend....."oh but you have money. Send him some"...............and to try to explain that a downright alcoholic who had never been around, would likely buy booze with the money............."just send a ticket then".................and could sell at ticket for money.

You may be reading her right, or you may not.

and this is why I want as much info on myself and my actions/thoughts before I even open the topic with my daughter.

Thanks again as I keep on keeping on
love
Izzy

[isittoolate]

Izzy - I suspect the abandonment your therapist suggests is not something ever "thought" but was processed on an unconscious level. 

Hi GS

That is all too true as well as who would have thought that between mother and daughter???? of course we were not into examining the generational inheritances we had lurking somewhere within.

As I read  your first post in this thread I find such joy in seeing the astonishing changes and healing and I think about your first post and your moniker - Is it too late?  I remember the board's resounding response, "NO" and I hear that response echo in your own words today.

And then after that was the post when I said, "This is the point I usually leave!"--as once people knew my history I felt I wouldn't be liked. .............................and this is the first time I stayed.

I give thanks for the amazing process you are sharing with us.  Much joy to you - Gaining Strength

I really need to share as I require as much input as possible, along with the therapist, to put my ducks in a row. I am gaining perspective week by week and as I mentioned in another post, I now must tell the therapist what transpired between 1991-1998 when I left Ontario for good.

Love
Izzy

[Overcomer]

Iz:  I applaud you for going through this long, hard process..............having an objective therapist point out our weaknesses and mistakes is a painful thing to experience.  I went through that process and have been in the process of trying to better myself for some time......years.  I hope you and your daughter can get back to where you were long ago.  Children probably don't understand the feelings they have and for many they do not come out for years.  My friend once told me that rebellion and anxiety look better on a teenager than a 30 year old and we hate to see teens stuff their anger and disappointment only to have it rear it's ugly head in adulthood.  That's what happened to me.  I didn't see the light until I was 42 and that is a long time to stuff frustration and anger and hatred!!!!!

You go, girl!!  Prayers to you!!  Kelly