Author Topic: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise  (Read 4210 times)

Margo

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I'm sitting here clutching Malignant Self Love by Sam Vaknin..... I'm so in over my head I think my heart is going to explode.  No question in my mind that my N is.... well.... an N.  And he's willing to do anything he has to in order to get what he wants.  He's just given me a very good example.  I've been going in and out of shock and feeling stupid.... ashamed like I've done something worse than OJ Simpson. 

Of course, I haven't killed anybody but..... I just might have to walk away from this divorce with a fraction of what a fair settlement would have been.  Wednesday a A Judge may decide it was OK for N to emotionally torture me for months until I caved and had "intimate moments" with him if he'd move out of the house and phone before he came over.  He also stopped threatening me as often and gave me the feeling I had enough control over my life that I could function more normally.  Not entirely but...... he took some pressure off..... and I've been desperate for the pressure to subside since October of last year. 

I give myself a bit of a break bc the attorney told me that I could get a restraining order before I filed then hide for a while until N's attorney got him under control.  Neither of those "facts" turned out to be true.   I had to sit in this house and make myself available to him, no wiggling.  Then..... as I was freaking out in the attorney's office over the above, he told me I would have a temp hearing in 30 days and if N did anything like take my car or turn of the utilities..... I could get an emergency hearing in TWO days.  ::shaking head::

If you guessed that didn't happen either.... ::DING DING DING DING DING::

So......  when, after 2 and a half months they set a temp hearing date..... it got cancelled bc of MY attorneys gallbladder surgery.... I was getting a bit demoralized.  Esp since my N knew it would be cancelled and my Attorney's paralegal got snitty with me when I called and asked her if it was true....  I was frantic.  That ticked her off and she said if I was going to trust what N said and call the office every time all upset maybe I should rethink.  Then she had to call me back and tell me it was true. 

The next temp hearing was set for April, it was cancelled as well.  I know I caved before that.  I was just having such a hard time with my back spasming and my stomach blowing up and my shoulder swelling and aching and my neck seizing.  I was under seige and damned whether I caved or not..... but I felt better bc  he was telling me he would facilitate the divorce IF I WAS NICE TO HIM.  He said he wouldn't ruin my life, he'd do what it took to become a decent person and win me back down the road.  Once he decided he couldn't change my mind on the divorce..... he put cameras in the house.  He plotted and figured on how to fix my little red wagon.  Yes.... he did.   

He did all this while chastizing me for not "trusting" him.  For not letting him win my trust, lol.  For not allowing him to have a second chance.  He swore on our 6yo's eyes he wouldn't tell.  He said he'd get the divorce over with quickly and go about doing pentance.  He also let me rage at him without making threats that put me on  the floor.... for a while at least.  Then the threats started up again. 

When I said no to his request to come over, for instance.... he began with the "You'd better be nice or else" threats.  And I tried to say no all the time.  That was the point for me.  I was living one day to the next, waiting for the moment I could change the locks and feel safe.... not hunted.  Not have to hide my keys and purse and credit cards and check book.  Not have everything on my computer deleted.  Not have my car title disapear.  ::shaking head:: Not to have him following me around talking talking talking till I vomited. 

When he brought the convicted murderer over to help move him.....  then explained that he'd be the PERFECT hit man and why.... all in a manic animated manner that spoke of glee and excitement..... I went a little out of my mind.  I phoned my attorney and he phoned N's attorney.  They didn't do anything and he denied saying it.  He began threatening to SNATCH me, put me in a burlap bag and fly me to a third world country on a little plane.  Then he said he figured out a way to do it without going to the trouble of a snatch and asked me to guess how.  I said... "You'll take the children."  He was pleased I figured it out and said he knew that I'd come if he had the girls.   

So..... the list of threats was long.  He said he'd hit the girls when he had them on visits.... he'd ruin my life with lawsuit after lawsuit..... he'd have his cop buddies plant drugs in the house then have me arrested..... he'd have drug addicts say I scored drugs from them.  He also said he'd have Manny, the perfect hitman, say I asked him for a bump of cocain.  He said it was all about who could tell the best story and he's very proud of his ability to lie.  He's so proud of his ability as a "war machine."  IT's all a game to him and he honestly believes that. 

There were days I couldn't get up off the bathroom floor and I was having trouble finding the car keys and my purse and other assorted hastily hidden items on a daily basis bc he'd come home whenever without a warning.  I was spending hours jumping at noises and watching the door before he came home.  I couldn't take the pressure and I told my attorney over and over and over again.  I wasn't ever able to withstand that pressure and N shut down his 40 employee company 4 days before Christmas, the day I filed, so he could hunker down on me 24/7 and work me with his good cop bad cop routine.  Kind and cruel kind and cruel.  It was really tearing me apart physically.  I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks and I couldn't eat then I got nauseaus and began vomiting when I tried to hold my anger in as he followed me around hour after hour......"I love you, I'm going to keep you, you can trust me I swear on Lena's eyes, I'm going to fix things......"  All the while he was stabbing me in the back rather obviously and that disparity just made me vomit.  My clothes were hanging on me.  I looked sick.  I was sick.  I am sick.

So...... long story not getting any shorter..... I took some pressure off the only way I could and I had to go into the deposition on Thurs and tell the truth bc be TOLD them we had sex in HIS DEPOSITION.  The truth was that he set me up to go in there and lie about it then spring the tape at the temp hearing on Wed so I couldn't re file for 35 days or so and he "would make our entire estate dissapear in that time."  It was beautiful! 

How incredably stupid could I be!?!?  The thing is.... I don't think I should lose everything because I wasn't strong enough to withstand his manipulations and the physical trauma.  I had little gilrs to dress and braid their hair and a household to keep sane and calm for them.  He had all that time to hunt the things I tried to hide and sabotage me and put spyware on my computer and if you recall....he followed me here and sabotaged that too.  He stole a check and 80,000.00.  It wasn't all in my head.  I was cut off and he was pressuring me and I know I sound whiney but now I have a Judge I don't know in charge of letting him off the hook for all the contemp charges he now has.  He never took the order of stay serioiusly.  He's been wagging his fanny at me and my attorneys and the law since this entire thing began.  He moved his money, he sold property he opened trusts with marital property he mortgaged property and made the money dissapear.  He did this while my attorney and his right hand gal told me he COULDN'T do any of those things.  While they told me i'd get that hearing in 30 days then in March and then in April and quite frankly... I began to believe they couldn't protect me.  I began to believe that he could do anything he wanted to me.  My attorney disagreed but hey.... N tells me the 4th temp hearing I've been looking forward to may be cancelled too.  This time bc of his attorney.  I believe him.

So..... Monday I guess we all meet back again and try to come to an understanding about what happens next.  The rat has a felony charge for putting spyware on my computer to consider.  I'll also be going to the DA's office to file something for all the threats he's been making.  I'm willing to go and tell my story to the judge..... OMG.... but I don't feel I have a choice. 

To be reality based..... this sort of thing happens all the time.  People get together, there's a dismissal and they refile again.  No big deal.  In this case..... N will get off the hook for all he's done and I'm sure he's moving chess pieces of the estate around with impunity since he KNOWS that there will be a dismissal.  After all.... there's never been a case where there wasn't a dismissal.... not in the last 10 years, anyway.  The one case that might help us was in another State and the husband asked the wife to come visit so he could get the divorce moved to his county.  They cohabitated for 3 weeks then he beat her and took her child.  The Judge said.... YOU SHALL NOT HAVE A DISMISSAL.... just like a God, lol.  My circumstances aren't quite so indiscreet...... at least N didn't do anything so dramatic as beat me and steal the girls.  He gaslighted and threatened and promised to give me a divorce if I'd just be nice. I did.  End of story, right?

I can't believe this is happening to me!!!!  Hey.... I can't believe I might have to go sit in a Judge's chambers and watch a blue movie.... that features me.  ::shaking head:: If you knew me.... you'd know how low key and un dramatic I like life.  And here I am..... between a rock and a very hard place.  I'm more afraid that the Judge WON'T dismiss the divorce.  I'm afraid of the other bombs N promises he has in store for me.  And I'm afraid of what he'll do when cornered like a rat.  Whatever will I do if the Judge goes all gershmackity on N?  I've been writing out letters explaining what and where and who to look at if I come to a bad end.  Lots of people are afraid for me.  I'm a nervous wreck.  And I don't have much support from my family and not much from friends either.  Everyone has their own dragons to slay, yes?

He didn't waste any time and started putting pressure on me immediately after the deposition. His attorney forbid him from coming to this house again so..... He phoned yesterday morning to say that he'd bring the police if I didn't relinquish the girls to him for mother's day weekend, lol.  He said his mother hadn't seen them since Christmas and blamed me, which is a bald faced lie.  He was using language that said he's positioning to make trouble about my denying him access to the girls, which I've never done.  He said he'd have a dumpster dropped 2 doors down, at my old house, and start throwing out all my stuff.  Now that is just poking at my eyes with a stick! Figureatively, of course.  I phoned my attorney...... he took Friday off.  at 475.00 an hour...... you'd think I'd get ONE correct piece of information and a little service, eh?

N also showed up at the other house today then came INTO this house and touched stuff and took things while I was out.  He just can't help himself and I'M TELLING!  Not that telling will get me anywhere: / 

The last time I talked to him I told him my goal was to have NO CONTACT with him for the rest of our lives.  I was adamant that the relationship is broken beyond all repair.  He insists we're meant for each other and that no other man will be raising his children.  He's upset and now I'm coming out of my skin again.  How do I get used to living this way? 

Happy mother's day.....  Margo

mudpuppy

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2007, 10:43:07 PM »
Margo,

Your lawyer sounds like a $475 an hour imbecile.
Is it not possible to find one who will protect you from your ex? That's what you are paying him to do and he isn't doing it.
And $475 an hour is a whole lot where I come from, even for a lawyer.

mud

Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2007, 10:49:00 PM »
Thanks for reading that huge long post.  Thanks for your words of encouragement and sharing your feelings that God is watching over me.  Sometimes I get so overwhelmed I can't do anything to help myself out of it.  You've reminded me that I can pray and feel immediatley better.  And that's what I'm going to do right now.  Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2007, 12:10:39 AM »
How do I get used to living this way?

by building yourself up and getting healthy support and above all by seeing your ex for who he is. You will get over him better when you are not romantically or physically attached any more.

My friend got so far with her divorce then capitulated when her husband told her he will make her life a living hell; he is diagnosed NPD and she's always been afraid of him. She said 'maybe he has changed?' When he's still threatening you? When your kids are in therapy for his abuse? I didn't say anything though, she will be miserable enough without feeling her dear friend is against her. I'll help her pick up the pieces later and she'll be happier if I didn't give her advice she wasn't going to take.

The nice doesn't last with NPD because it's not really nice, it's manipulation.

I am sorry you are being messed with by the legal system too.

Have you read Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' That helps see the behaviours for what they are and give clear words for describing to others.

A friend said to me with my ex after I halted the divorce because he upset my son: you are just dragging out the inevitable. He  is going to be horrible, miserable, angry, unreasonable whatever you do. Just let him get on with it.

I thought she was unfair, but I am comign to see she is right.

Now I am more determined and much more detached and planning the final stages of our marriage ex isn't taking it out on me as much, he is crying a lot and my son said he got drunk and was crying and said 'don't think intelligence is more important than friends.'

Not that he is doing anything positive to change, mind. and I told him if the drinking is out of control son will  have to come and live with me.

I have been hit, and had my confiodence down to nothing Margo, I hear your frustration and pain and fear.

But I have come to a place of- do what you will, I really don't care what you do I am going to get on with my life anyway.

My ex took my son, I think he will end up back with me too though.

I haven't responded or fought or been unkind. I am just going to carry on doing what works which is stand my ground and keep going to therapy and taking care of myself.

The healthier I am the better I can cope with the broadsides, but the time is coming when my ex will be moving on, I sense something important happened today when I sent him home and said I can buy a car on my own!

He even likes it too, and hasn't taken one ounce of the joy out of the day for me, which in itself is a miracle.

Court procedure is food for Nism Margo, keep good records and do as little as you have to, don't play.
That includes with lawyers too. They are game players, there's a whole Nism in lawyers still, used to be doctors too but their occupational culture is changing and it's getting less common I can see. Now someone needs to reform the legal professions.

Your fear will go eventually, yes G_d watches you and you have friends and support here.


Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 07:26:06 AM »
Margo,

Your lawyer sounds like a $475 an hour imbecile.
Is it not possible to find one who will protect you from your ex? That's what you are paying him to do and he isn't doing it.
And $475 an hour is a whole lot where I come from, even for a lawyer.

mud

This attorney is a very good trial attorney.  I knew we'd end up there and he seemed to be very familiar with N's and the type of things they do.  I felt like he was the best choice, at the time.  Of course.... I was out of my mind with fear and unable to breath too.  One thing good trial attorneys end up being is..... on trial a lot.  He missed the second hearing bc of that and I can't be angry about his gallbladder misfortune.  

I get to have my day in court, eventually.  I don't know what I'll do if I have to wait another month to find out my fate.    

$475.00 is a lot for an attorney. That's how freaked out I am/was.  I hired someone I felt could handle N.  I don't really know if anyone understands the extent he'll go to in order to get his way.  I don't feel that I've been protected.  I don't feel my best interest has been served.  Part of that was the gallbladder surgery attorney had.  Part is that I freak out in a reserved manner.  I don't jump on desks though maybe I should.  I tried so hard to be patient and trust that N would be removed from the house soon enough.  

In any case, I can't change horses now that the hearing MIGHT be close.  Either the Judge punishes me or he punishes N.... at least I've got a good trial dog in the ring.  I would have to petition the Judge to release my attorney, if I chose to hire another one... and he wouldn't do that this close to a temp hyearing.  

I feel like I have to lie motionless on a surgical table.... eyes closed.  (figuratively)
Bright lights.......  men cutting on me..... I hope they're doctors and I hope they're helping me.  Not hurting me.  It's a very helpless feeling and I don't know what my rights are.  I don't know why N's been allowed to threaten and bully me without interruption.  

Maybe..... just maybe...... my divorce case will set a precident (sp?) that helps other women get help?  Maybe my attorney will surprise me and be worth every penny I pay.  Whatever happens..... I have to get a handle on the stress level.  A restraining order and some distance will/would be a good start.  Margo

mudpuppy

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 11:05:00 AM »
Hi Margo,

I think it is the best court strategy in the long run to endure without complaint the abuse these people heap on us. If your lawyer is diligent in exposing it and you are diligent in documenting it while remaining calm and reasonable before the judge you have your best chance of prevailing. I know it's not easy but remaining calm and unemotional and unmovable while at the same time presenting his lunacy is the best way to get him to act out in court. It is true that a few of these people are good in court, but if they are pressured the right way and you have a half way decent judge it doesn't take long to see who the lunatic is and what you have put up with.
If your lawyer is good $475 is worth it. It just seems like there must be more methods by which you could have been insulated from this nut pre trial.

mud

Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 12:16:11 PM »
Margo,

I've been there.  I know that everything you are saying is happening is all too true.  Your post brought back so many memories.  People told me it would calm down, and I didnt believe it, and it did.  I'm still looking over my shoulder though, and I think I will for a long, long time.

I dont know if you are going to be back on the board this evening--but one bit of advice:  standard temporary orders state very clearly where the kids are supposed to be on Mother's Day.  Your house.  Period.  He gets them for Father's Day.  In my state, that is the case even if the normal possession of the kids and visitation falls otherwise.  So, you have a really good case for keeping them. So, he can huff and puff all he wants to--the intent of the law is that you have the kids for Mother's day.  Even if you don't have a signed temporary order, you are probably not going to get in trouble with the court for keeping your girls this weekend.

When I was separated and didnt yet have a signed court order prohibiting him from the house, I put a lock on my bedroom that was keyed from the outside.  I kept anything that I wanted safe in that room.  Computer, papers, money, bank books, etc.  If I wasnt home, that door was kept locked.  You could also keep a safety deposit box or a home safe.  In the final hearing, you will have to have divulged its contents but you dont have to do that now--and you dont have to give him access.  If you are prohibited from changing the lock on the front door, you arent prohibited from locking your bedroom.  Even at night--get a deadbolt that you can key on the inside too.

Mud's right.  For $400 + an hour, you should be getting an attorney that's cast in pure gold!  The most expensive lawyer I could find in my town was $250 an hour.  In the metropolitan area, I suppose it could be a lot more.  But for that, you should have a clear picture of what's going on.  You can switch lawyers.  You can ask for a psychological evaluation for your NH.  You can wear a recording device when NH is over.  You can hire a private investigator. 

Where is your family?  Are you getting any support from any of them?  Do you have a church? 

Something I learned was that these creeps operate in darkness.  He's saying all this stuff where no one can hear, right?  I started repeating everything he said to other people--so there was a record with someone else of what was going on.  If you have good friends, a pastor, an employer or fellow employees--they can all be a witness to what's going on, even though they arent there when it happens. I had the advantage of living in a small town--his behavior made him unpopular in the town eventually.

I'm so sorry Margo.  I wish there was something we could do for you besides listen.  But I found through my own darkness that the listening counted for a whole lot.  Eventually, it made me very strong.  There were times when I was handling things that I felt the unseen presence of everyone here, backing me up.  We can be that for you too.

CB



I'm going to have the locks changed today.... if i can.  I've got to get my head together for Monday and Wednesday, no matter what they bring.  I have to remember that everything will be allright..... it'll be OK.  No matter.  I know it will.  

All along I've said that I'll feel better once N takes a position, even it if's all out war.  This going back and forth between kindness and cruelty is crazy making.  Things will settle down, even if the court allows N to do as he pleases and break the law with impunity.  At least the path will be clear as to the apparent outcome  and that brings it's own peace.  

I don't think that N ever wanted the girls this weekend, he just poked me with that bc his attorney told him to stay out of this house.  He came into it yesterday while we were out, btw.  He took a bunch of barstools, had tea and touched my computer.  About par for the course.  ::shaking head::

His being  next door just makes it easier for him to keep applying pressure.  He's also pretty sure nobody is going to require that he follow any rules.  So far, that's a true and correct statement.  

Thanks for listening and giving me your wisdom and encouragement.  It is important and I'm so sorry I stopped coming here for help once he found the board.  The whole thing is so sad...... it all feels like loss and sorrow and being betrayed on every level.  Too many moving parts for me to comprehend at once.  Too hard to get my  head straight and keep it straight.  I go in  and out and it's impossible when he's got access to me.  I've watched mysef struggle and I've been so frustrated with the process.   Maybe things will get soooo much better once I change the locks?  I wonder if he'll ever be required to leave me alone or if he'll always be able to get at me,no matter.  Until he finds someone else who's more fun to focus on, I suppose.  Margo

I'll be positng regularly bc I get strength and hope from this board. Thanks for your help.  Margo

Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 12:18:48 PM »
Dear Margo,
 I felt vulnerable writing about having a" peace about the outcome", but as I was reading it, a feeling of peace for you came over me. I feel a deep sense that you will be all right.I would not say this as a platitude.
  Recently, I had a situation which was similar.  I give God all the credit, not me. I was a vechicle, .A friend was in the hospital with, they thought, an ovarian cyst that needed surgery.I prayed for her all morning . Then at about noon, I just really  felt a sense that the situation was taken care of and that she would go home the next day.
  She called me the next day and said that at noon, something happened  and the pain was gone. The next day, she came home.
   . It felt really "natural" and not "scary .  I think God is ready to do all sorts of miracles for us.,.
  . Please keep me informed. Much Love to You   Ami




I felt better after reading your post and I believe God can and does perform miracles. 

I'm glad that your friend was fine and got to go home. 

It's nice to read uplifting stories and helps remind me that things won't always be so dark.  Margo

Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2007, 12:32:51 PM »
How do I get used to living this way?

by building yourself up and getting healthy support and above all by seeing your ex for who he is. You will get over him better when you are not romantically or physically attached any more.

My friend got so far with her divorce then capitulated when her husband told her he will make her life a living hell; he is diagnosed NPD and she's always been afraid of him. She said 'maybe he has changed?' When he's still threatening you? When your kids are in therapy for his abuse? I didn't say anything though, she will be miserable enough without feeling her dear friend is against her. I'll help her pick up the pieces later and she'll be happier if I didn't give her advice she wasn't going to take.

The nice doesn't last with NPD because it's not really nice, it's manipulation.

I am sorry you are being messed with by the legal system too.

Have you read Lundy Bancroft 'Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men' That helps see the behaviours for what they are and give clear words for describing to others.

A friend said to me with my ex after I halted the divorce because he upset my son: you are just dragging out the inevitable. He  is going to be horrible, miserable, angry, unreasonable whatever you do. Just let him get on with it.

I thought she was unfair, but I am comign to see she is right.

Now I am more determined and much more detached and planning the final stages of our marriage ex isn't taking it out on me as much, he is crying a lot and my son said he got drunk and was crying and said 'don't think intelligence is more important than friends.'

Not that he is doing anything positive to change, mind. and I told him if the drinking is out of control son will  have to come and live with me.

I have been hit, and had my confiodence down to nothing Margo, I hear your frustration and pain and fear.

But I have come to a place of- do what you will, I really don't care what you do I am going to get on with my life anyway.

My ex took my son, I think he will end up back with me too though.

I haven't responded or fought or been unkind. I am just going to carry on doing what works which is stand my ground and keep going to therapy and taking care of myself.

The healthier I am the better I can cope with the broadsides, but the time is coming when my ex will be moving on, I sense something important happened today when I sent him home and said I can buy a car on my own!

He even likes it too, and hasn't taken one ounce of the joy out of the day for me, which in itself is a miracle.

Court procedure is food for Nism Margo, keep good records and do as little as you have to, don't play.
That includes with lawyers too. They are game players, there's a whole Nism in lawyers still, used to be doctors too but their occupational culture is changing and it's getting less common I can see. Now someone needs to reform the legal professions.

Your fear will go eventually, yes G_d watches you and you have friends and support here.


[/quote

Very scary to read about your friend giving in to her husband.  The "maybe he's changed" part is what was scary about it.  I wish I could have availed myself to the NO CONTACT rule.... that was advice I was all for from the beginning.  I believed.  I appreciated that advice and would have stuck to it, had I been allowed.  Maybe yiou can give her that advice to her when things fall apart.  It's so important, IMO.  The way clear.

I'm a little confused.... you have an ex and no current husband.   You said you may end up back with him and he now has your son? 

I've been telling my N to just go to war from the start.  Not to try to save anything, I wasn't interested.  I would have had less stress if he just went to war and didn't play insidiouse games with me.  They make me throw up and I'm not built for this stress.  He says he looks forward to court and knows how to play the games.  No doubt he does.  I have to remember that all things, good and bad, come to an end.  Nothing lasts forever, no matter how bad they are. 

I'm going to the bookstore todya iwth my girls for mother's day. Thanks for that suggestion.  I'll get that book you told me to buy.  I wish I had more time.  I feel so behind having had to keep all the evidence out of the house and not be able to organize it.  It'll be OK.  Thanks for your support.
Margo


Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 12:42:58 PM »
I feel like I have to lie motionless on a surgical table.... eyes closed.  (figuratively)
Bright lights.......  men cutting on me..... I hope they're doctors and I hope they're helping me.  Not hurting me.  It's a very helpless feeling and I don't know what my rights are.  I don't know why N's been allowed to threaten and bully me without interruption. 


Margo,

You describe this feeling very well.  I have been on that surgical table.  I can't tell you how much sympathy I have for where you are.

I know you feel breathless and panic stricken, but it's clear from your post that you have thought everything out very carefully.  I think you have made good decisions--even about the $475 attorney.  You knew from the first that you were going to need big guns and you paid for big guns.  Better than what I did--I thought I could manage with a "nice" lawyer and almost got mowed down.  There are many things I would have done differently, and you did those things from the outset.  I hope that is some comfort to you.

I hope this is another comfort:  in the midst of all my NH's posturing and threatening and actual abuse, everyone told me that their experience showed he would calm down and get focused on something else eventually.  I didnt believe them--I thought I would be in this hell forever.  How could he be so singleminded in his abuse and then just lose interest?

But he did.  I expect a brief renewal of problems around the actual hearing date, but overall, I think he is going to latch onto another source of supply and leave me alone.  The visitation that he fought so hard for, that he threatened the boys over, he has already begun to let go of.  The other kids rarely hear from him and he seems to be building a new life with new interests elsewhere.  It's only been 8 months, Margo.  I'm amazed.

That doesnt mean it's easy.  This contains it's own pressures--late child support checks, etc.  Several of the kids, now that the imminent danger has abated, are dealing with the issues that come from having been abandoned by their dad.  And all the buried anger from the years together is coming to the surface as well.  It's a journey that I dont think we will ever be completely through with.

Thinking of you today, Margo.  Wherever the kids are today, you are still a mom, and they love you. 

CB

I wouldn't have let him have the children this weekend.  He was just messing with me and trying to me. 

I don't look forward to being jerked around with child support and anything else he can use to hurt me.  He's made lots of threats about becoming a dead beat dad..... I can't imagine that he wouldn't.  To tell you the truth, I've been expecting him to pack up and leave the country with everything he can get.  I expect that his father is paying him for all our properties and that he'll take the cash, his father will hav  the property so I won't have any rights to it...and all during a standing order.  I worry about the kids and how they'll handle everything too.  We're so vulnerable if we have children and care about them.

Margo

Margo

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 01:09:35 PM »
Hi Margo,

I think it is the best court strategy in the long run to endure without complaint the abuse these people heap on us. If your lawyer is diligent in exposing it and you are diligent in documenting it while remaining calm and reasonable before the judge you have your best chance of prevailing. I know it's not easy but remaining calm and unemotional and unmovable while at the same time presenting his lunacy is the best way to get him to act out in court. It is true that a few of these people are good in court, but if they are pressured the right way and you have a half way decent judge it doesn't take long to see who the lunatic is and what you have put up with.
If your lawyer is good $475 is worth it. It just seems like there must be more methods by which you could have been insulated from this nut pre trial.

mud


I think that the key to everything for N is the children.  He had access to me bc he had to have access to the children.  Had it just been me..... everything would have been different.  The courts don't know who's the nut or if both parents are nuts and they can't deny one parent over the other..... they don't have the resources or the funds to try.  I just didn't have a complete picture, which my lawyer should have provided, IMO.  I was sorely unprepared emotionally to fight him all the time for so long.  His attorney told him to move out in January and he refused, btw.  He's been in control of his own destiny this whole time and he has the added advantage of not caring about the children's wellfare.  Using them to manipulate me gives him an advantage.  The parents who care about their children is so vulnerable.

I've been rather stoically enduring the abuse.  It's very difficult to show emotions in front of N, I think of showing him fear as exposing my belly.  I think I'll be OK in court as far as remaining calm.  I hope I don't break down there.

This is all so hard and I'm a very private person so I expect I'd best get ready for the worst.  It's possible that N has had people following me all the time and had cameras installed in the house from the beginning.  ::shrug:: It bothers me less than I thought it would.  The idea of having every nose pick filmed,  esp during allergy season.... just seems so unfair: /  He's normally the cheapest person you'll ever meet.  It's not like I've been seeing someone else or doing drugs.  It's a bit more like that is a distraction tactic for me to focus on while he's busy gutting me from behind.  "that's not the sound of me cutting through your ribcage Margo...... Of course I didn't just snip through your spinal cord...."  It's very unnerving.  It won't last forever. 

My attorney will have plenty of chances to prove his worth.  We'll just have to see.  I don't think they focus on any case till they HAVE to.  He's been a bit off bc of his surgery and trying that other case.  Maybe when he focuses on us..... he'll surprise me. 

Thanks for your advice.  Margo

WRITE

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2007, 04:53:46 PM »
Very scary to read about your friend giving in to her husband.  The "maybe he's changed" part is what was scary about it.  I wish I could have availed myself to the NO CONTACT rule.... that was advice I was all for from the beginning.  I believed.  I appreciated that advice and would have stuck to it, had I been allowed.  Maybe yiou can give her that advice to her when things fall apart.  It's so important, IMO.  The way clear.

I'm a little confused.... you have an ex and no current husband.   You said you may end up back with him and he now has your son? 

I've been telling my N to just go to war from the start.  Not to try to save anything, I wasn't interested.  I would have had less stress if he just went to war and didn't play insidiouse games with me.  They make me throw up and I'm not built for this stress.  He says he looks forward to court and knows how to play the games.  No doubt he does.  I have to remember that all things, good and bad, come to an end.  Nothing lasts forever, no matter how bad they are. 

I'm going to the bookstore todya iwth my girls for mother's day. Thanks for that suggestion.  I'll get that book you told me to buy.  I wish I had more time.  I feel so behind having had to keep all the evidence out of the house and not be able to organize it.  It'll be OK.  Thanks for your support.
Margo


My ex and i are not divorced yet, I have to file the final papers. He stirred up my son who was talking about suicide etc so I had to focus on that instead.
But it did buy us the time he needed I guess because now he's starting to talk about when I 'don't need him any more' and future plans without me. He is incredibly chronically depressed liek a lot of personality disorder people seem to get...no I would not go back to him whatever happened.

We've been married twice and all we did was add a child to the emotional chaos second time.

It is much more complicated with a child, I feel like getting pregnant was a rather wilfull thing to do now, but I really wanted a baby and my ex knew I did.

Funny he never really wanted a child, now he's the one wants to have him 24/7 and dotes on him.

But it's still a problem Margo, there are so many issues, inappropriate TV even becomes ridiculous because an NPD can't adhere to rules even if they created them, so the consistency isn't there. In fact it is because my son is fairly sensible and sets his own agenda. But now his dad is drinking and crying a lot he says.

He's not very sympathetic about it which I am pleased to see- he says his dad should do something more positive about his problems. He's mercilessly critical about anyone drinking excessively!

Our whole situation has been very complicated and convoluted and difficult to explain or detach from....but we are gradually.

One thing about taking so long is we've had time to calm down and work out a lot of the strategy instead of going in to court.

But from day one I told my ex 'do what you have to' when he tried to fight, even when he said he'd take my son, which he went on to do not via court but whilst I ws ill and then later because son wants to go there, dad is richer and less rules, and he's old enough to choose.

I am learning patience though, and my son will come back to me, he's going to be staying with me again. He and I have a close relationship and the psychologist talked to him and said he sees me as strong and able to take care of myself. He wants to take care of his dad, also have the male role model.

What I am rambling is if you keep getting yourself healthier and taking care of yourself whatever happens you will survive and regroup and things will move on from horrible.

Even this time of living alone I have used positively to read a number of books and do some self-help and watch all the movies I'd never get away with with a pre-teen in the house, and it was useful to have a lot of time to think and plan.

My ex wants to take care of me still at times, which is sweet, but I am tellign him I need to take care of myself and stand on my own feet. His response was 'you always fall over with a crash!' but I didn't get upset, I just said well I need to try.

I guess I don't need his approval or the relationship I hoped we'd have any more.

I CAN stand alone and not be terrified.


Brigid

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 09:59:36 AM »
Margo,
I'm very sorry for the HELL your stbx is putting you and your children through. 

I don't know if your state has different rules, but I was able to change the locks on my house as soon as my ex moved out.  All I had to do was notify him that I had done so.  You are as entitled to the safety and privacy of your space as he is to his.

I live in a large metropolitan community and hired the best divorce attorney in town for $350/hour.  If you are not satisfied with the outcome of the upcoming pre-trial hearing, I would seriously look at getting a good divorce attorney rather than a trial attorney.  The divorce attorney will be more knowledgeable about your rights during the separation time, how to freeze assets and not allow him to move things around, and many of them are skilled at handling people with personality disorders.  I would also look at hiring a forensic accountant to look more deeply into your h's assets and income, to protect the financial future for you and the girls.  I did this and it did expose ways that my ex and his father were working to hide various forms of income.

When it comes time to develop the divorce decree, make sure you read through it very carefully.  If you can find a friend or acquaintance who has already been through a similar situation, have them read through it with you.  Make sure that he has to pay your monthly support directly into an account rather than to you.  You can also attach financial penalties if the payments are not made on time. 

Now is the time for you to appear strong and capable, no matter how much you are falling apart inside.  I hope you are seeing a therapist and if necessary, taking meds to help with the anxiety.  I went down to 110 pounds and could barely function until my therapist referred me to a psychiatrist for some strong meds to get my appetite back and help with the anxiety, depression, sleeplessness and obsessive thoughts. 

Going through a divorce from an n requires a team approach.  You need a good attorney with the balls to go after the a$$hole you are getting away from, a kind, compassionate therapist to help you through the fear and sadness, and friends who will take you out for a drink when you finally prevail.  Mostly, you need to protect your children and be strong for them. 

Many blessings,

Brigid

Sela

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 11:19:41 AM »
Dear Margo:

What awful stuff to have to contend with.....and live through.  So sorry you're having to experience it at all.  You are doing a good job though.  You've kept your head about you and you are looking forward!  That is wonderful!  Soon, this will all be in the past........just a nasty memory!!

One thing....you spoke quite a bit about is.... fear...... in your first post.  My guess is your N feeds on your fear.  I bet he relishes it and devours it.  He reminds me of a serpant....spitting green saliva and slurping up every ounce of fear he can get his slurper into.  Fear.  A nice light snack for him!!

So I say......starve him to death, Margo!!  Kill the fear!  Don't let it rule!  Get whatever restraining orders you can get.  Change your locks.  Insist on no contact with him and remove his opportunity to threaten and tease you at all.  I know it sounds difficult but fear is just a feeling.  It's a very normal one to feel, under these circumstances too.  I'm not saying:  Don't feel fear.  I'm saying:  Don't let him see it or know you feel it because it fuels his behaviour.  Do your best to set your fear asside and act with confidence.

You are entitled to feel safe in your own home!  Is there anyone.....a friend.....a family member who could stay with you for awhile?  Be an extra witness?  How soon can you move?  I'd be wanting to high-tail it outta that place.  Oh wouldn't it be nice to turn the tables?  I wish I had a magic wand and I'd produce a 6 foot 4 hairy chested muscle man to stay with you and body guard!!   Maybe a whole army of them!!

Document!  Document!  Document!  Write down all these threats he's making about planting drugs on you, death threats, threats against the children and all the rest.  Send a copy to your lawyer and to the police.  His video taping you without your knowledge or consent....isn't that a crime?  It is where I live.  You can't just do that.  Are there possible charges in relation to his behaviour that can be laid?  I'd be talking to the police a lot.   Most certainly every time he threatens.  Soon, they'll have enough of him and deal with him.

They alway use the children, these people!!  It's their biggest weapon.  They know you will do anything to protect the children so they threaten to harm them.  Is he a real danger or is he a coward with a big mouth?  What does your gut tell you?

If he's a real danger then maybe screaming it from the hill tops.......to the police.....to your lawyer.......will help?  Maybe, it's time to go to a shelter, if that is the case?

If he's just a chicken with a big rattle in his throat........maybe a visit from the police......a letter from your lawyer.......may induce him to change his attitude/actions?    He thinks he can get away with whatever he wants but that isn't true.  There are laws and courts and jails and he is stalking you....... the very least!!

Keep going Margo!  Be brave!  You said it:  This won't last forever!!  It won't!!

One other thing.....it's not nice that your lawyer has had medical problems.  That's no fun.  However, that does not make it ok for him NOT to do a good job and NOT  to protect you, both of which, so far, it seems is the case.  You are entitled to a competent representitive, who is functioning at peak level.  Maybe it would be a good idea to consider getting someone else?  I know what you mean when you say you need someone who can handle your N.  But this lawyer isn't the only one eh?  Just a thought. 

Also...because of all the threats and his obvious desire to control......would it not be a good idea to ask for supervised visitation in an accredited facility (a visiting place with people there to observe etc).?  That way....you would not have to be involved and you might feel your kids are more protected?  Use his own behaviour against him.  He's the one who threatens.  Threatening is against the law.  Won't the court consider that since he threatens.....he may decide to act?  He has made direct threats about taking the children out of the country!  The court has the power to protect your children from him.   He invades boundaries.  He may invade the children's boundaries too.

I hope things go better for you real soon Margo.  Keep taking care of you!!   Sending you strength and resolve and courage!!

Sela

Hopalong

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Re: I'm in knots..... watching the door and jumping over every noise
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 11:23:00 AM »
Hi Margo:

Just two things, because I don't have experience of value, and so much good advice is here for you.

Quote
This going back and forth between kindness and cruelty is crazy making.

It is not kindness. It may look like it, sound like it, or smell like it, but it is not kindness.

The second thing is that I wonder if you could print out your original summary post here and give it to your lawyer? It is a hair-raising and honest account...I don't know if it's wise to do (someone else will know) but if it is, I urge you to.

Thoughts with you...you will draw on your next-to-last last drop of courage but you have more than you know.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."