Daughter says she needed a therapist at age 12

[isittoolate]

 OMG WHAT happened????

The title says it, and I remember the incident. She had swallowed a bottle of aspirin and the Dr. telephoned me about it..
The doctor and I had a talk and he said she would be okay
She and I had a talk and I cannot remember a dam*ned thing that was said.

That is something she has not yet forgiven me for.

I haven’t had a reply back on that topic, so all I can say now is that if it were serious enough I would have seen that she got help, and I wonder if she downplayed it during our talk? She always seemed happy, laughing and had friends around her.

Izzy feeling awful

[CB123]

Izzy,

Hang in there.  I have forgotten things in my children's lives as well.  I dont know why that is--I feel as though I have an incredible memory.  It bothers me a lot. 

You can't know what you don't know.  You can only apologize for not seeing how serious something was.  There's no point in trying to come up with a reason why you didn't--if you can't remember, you can't remember.  But you can empathize NOW.  If she is still bringing it up, and still hurt, then you can empathize with her just as you would with one of us. 

You are doing hard work, Iz, and it is incredibly painful for both of you.  But, what most of us here wouldnt give for a mom like you who wants to work through the whole mess and who feels awful when she doesnt remember.  I forgot to tell you Happy Mother's Day, Iz.  You are very special to me.

CB

[isittoolate]

thank you so much, CB

You have made me feel so much better. I have the habit of thinking I am the only one who would MISS something like that. i never noticed. I have written this to her with my profound apologies.

As well, I said I wasn't trying to take away from her pain, but I knew the feeling of being depress about the same age, since I wet the bed until age 12. My mother did nothing but feed me Dodd's Kidney Pills and  the siblings taunted and ridiculed me.  somewhat different format, but the "feeling like a nobody" or whatever is awful for youngpeople.

Thanks again
Izzy

[Stormchild]

Iz...

what is important now is that, when your daughter told you about this,

you didn't duck it
you didn't try to find a way to blame her for it
you didn't insist that it never happened
you didn't change the subject
you didn't get angry at her for bringing up the past
you didn't misinterpret what she said and give her heck over that misinterpreted version.

what you did instead was...
sit with it...
believe her about it...
make an effort to remember it...
make an effort to 'own' your part of it...

I am not saying you were, or did, wrong... I'm saying you were willing to consider that you might have made a mistake...

Iz, it's so valuable to your daughter now that you can even THINK that you MIGHT have made a mistake then. If you can believe me about this, THAT may be more valuable, your ability to do this, and her seeing your ability to do it, than if you'd never made any mistakes with her ever.

A parent who can admit imperfections is so valuable... because we are all imperfect...

Hugs and flowers for you for mother's day. You are an admirable, brave mother, Iz. Truly.

[gratitude28]

Iz,
Maybe you listened, but you didn't HEAR. I think that happens often to us, especially when we haven't learned to really hear what is underneath...
I have admitted here that I do remember some things from when I was a teenager and I wasn't always the kindest I could have been. I wish I could do a lot over... but I can't. I can say I am sorry. I can grow as a person. I can hope others see this.
It is wonderful that you have seen where this might have been a problem. Whatever did happen, it is over and you can learn from it and use the situation to help your daughter and you understand times when you couldn't hear each other.
Happy Mother's Day.
Love, Beth

[Portia]

Dear Izzy

Does your D want to tell you now why she took the bottle of aspirin back then?

Maybe she wants to tell you in her own words; maybe she wants you to listen to her story?

Hoping this brings you closer and wishing you even more strength. It’s so tough what you’re doing Izzy and you’re doing it so well.

[towrite]

Iz, maybe you had your own issues going on at the time. I would think a mother who's just found out her D took a bottle of aspirin would be in shock - and shock cancels out most short term and some long term memory.

(((((IZ)))))))

towrite

[isittoolate]

Oh thank you Stormy

Your reply is so on target and further than I was able to get in my thinking. I have apologized already to her and now await whatever she has to say in response to my accepting whatever blame

I cannot help but thiink of how well she did in school, top student, and never flagged on her homework or her marks.

When she was about 12-13 she was putting on weight and asked me to put her on a diet--the banana-egg diet. I did but she isn't into eggs and it didn't last. She lost the weight herself by the time she was 16.

Thank you Beth and towrite
Perhaps a combination of "shock" and "not hearing what she said", as I certainly remember the shock at the Dr.'s telephone call.

Thank you Portia and Amii

I am accepting responsibility (for what?) for the fact that she swallowed the aspirin, for some reason, because she was but 12-13 and a minor AND I am accepting responsibility for not remembering the conversation I had with her.

I can also say that I had forgotten the incident until she brought it to my attention this past week.  That could be because it was too light or too heavy for me to carry.

Only her next message will tell the tale if she opens up to me.

Thank you all

I love you
Izzy

[Margo]

OMG WHAT happened????

The title says it, and I remember the incident. She had swallowed a bottle of aspirin and the Dr. telephoned me about it..
The doctor and I had a talk and he said she would be okay
She and I had a talk and I cannot remember a dam*ned thing that was said.

That is something she has not yet forgiven me for.

I haven’t had a reply back on that topic, so all I can say now is that if it were serious enough I would have seen that she got help, and I wonder if she downplayed it during our talk? She always seemed happy, laughing and had friends around her.

Izzy feeling awful

I didn't really understand the post well enough to post back Izzy.  As for forgetting things..... I don that, all the time.  You're daughter hasn't been able to find any empathy for you yet.  The old saying goes.... "we often judge our parents, and seldom forgive." 

If I were in your daughter's situation..... I'd want truth and honesty from you..... but not just yet. 

I'd want to want to be heard without any excuses and feel understood. I'd want you to listen to me unload then hear you slow talk back to me what you think I said so I know you got it.  I'd want to hear.... "I'm sorry you felt that way..... I'm so sorry you thought I abandoned you....." Exactly.  I wouldn't want to hear anything about your feelings while I vented.  I'd want to be understood.  Then..... just maybe..... she'll be able to hear you when she's sure you understand. 

It would take a very strong mama to do that.  She hurts and it's not pretty.  It still doesn't mean you don't deserve empathy.  You surely do.  You also had reasons for everything you did.  I hope she wants to listen and understand someday soon. Margo

[isittoolate]

Thank you Margo

Yes. She was 12. She is now 43 and nothing has been said in between.

I cannot remember what we said during our talk, but I can remember the incident. Some other incidents just as serious, I can remember some, not all, of our conversations, but this one is blocked, buried or something----

She is going to have to give me the content to jog my brain. It's been 32 years and the content must be buried somewhere in my thick head.

Love
Izzy

[isittoolate]

I'm sitting here playing Mah-Jong and thinking about things.

I love the story about my cutting the grass while my daughter worked on her scrapbook of Prince Charles and Diana.
That was her job but I said I would do it just to see if I could, as soon she would be finishing Grade 13 and going to University.

Her boyfriend, Scott called and they talked (she told me the whole conversation) and he asked

"What's your Mom doing?"
"Cutting the grass"---must haver made Scott choke
"Why aren't you doing that?
Because she said she wanted to and she doing it and a good job and I'm proud of her"
Stage Direction: She opens the screen door, steps out and calls, 
"Mom do you want a beer?"
"Okay, yes. Thank you."
Brings beer and I jam it between my legs and carry on as she returns to the house.

Meanwhile I have people on their Sunday stroll and Sunday drive staring at me.
Daughter came out and took a picture (I wonder where it is?)

I did the whole front yard and it looked great and I had her come only once to untangle the electric cord. I could do it on my own if I were on my own, but she saw it tangled around the big tree in the front yard.

hope you enjoyed my little memory
Izzy

[Portia]

Izzy, I enjoyed your memory. Fond memory! I'm 45 now and some time ago (but recently) I had a similar conversation with my mother. She's not like you. She wasn't open, at that time, to hearing my story, or me, at all. But at age 42 or 43 as i think i was at the time, i was talking to her like I was that little girl who just wanted her mum to listen and understand. I didn't want to blame my mum for what I wanted to do back when i was 13, I just wanted to be heard by her. Because the little girl still loved her mum. This thread is probably obviously too close to my own experience for me not to project, but - I admire you Izzy for what you're doing. The answer is partly I guess - keep talking (and listening!).  with best wishes, P

[isittoolate]

hi Portoa

Thank you.

There isn't a perfect parent in the world.

My mother would not respond or initiate a conversation. I swore I would be different with my child. Well I improved on many things but not them all. I see my daughter as a better mother than I, and that one day I expect in my descendants there will be a pretty close to perfect mother somewhere, and maybe, if the stories travel from generation to generation, I and my daughter will receive some commendation for the beginning of breaking the curse.

I am in agreement with you with that feeling of not wanting to blame your Mother. I felt that way. I tried not to blame, but just understand that her younger years were probably worse hell that mine and that her mother's younger years a worse hell than that again.

I try to say that certain things happened at the time I was ?? years old and my perspective could have been off, or that my shyness didn't allow me to step forward and have a voice when I was younger.

My daughter said, "We are both guilty of harm and indiscretion"................................................. "We are both  guilty."

Time will sort this out!

Thanks
Izzy

[isittoolate]

An interesting comparison in a song I wrote in the early '90s and what she included in her long weekend email:

You asked for thoughts about my Dad.  Since I am writing, I will include them here.  I don't have much in the way of thoughts about my Dad.  I completely accept the fact that you had to leave him, and feel really bad for you that you never stopped loving him, and therefore could not love anyone else.  (I feel really bad for you that you have had such a shitty life overall).  I used to daydream (and sometimes at night) that he would come and save me from my sad little life, and when he came he would bring me a horse.  In my dream I would wake up and he would be standing in my room with the horse.  He was my daydream-knight-in-shining-armour, probably because you told me that he loved me still, which meant that he was the only other one who did.   As I reflect on the time when you had to break the news to me that he'd died, I feel that you handled it well.

Her 'sad little lfe' I expect is that she was an only child, no father and a mother in a wheelchair

http://www.copwt.ca/nvrknew.mp3 The Man I Never Knew

Izzy

[Margo]

Thank you Margo

Yes. She was 12. She is now 43 and nothing has been said in between.

I cannot remember what we said during our talk, but I can remember the incident. Some other incidents just as serious, I can remember some, not all, of our conversations, but this one is blocked, buried or something----

She is going to have to give me the content to jog my brain. It's been 32 years and the content must be buried somewhere in my thick head.

Love
Izzy

Remember..... when she tells you that story of when she was 12..... she may act 12 at the time.  I wanted to tell you the whole thing about people being born innocent then moving into the manipulative phase then moving into the adaptive phase then into the phase of adulthood then parent mode. 

I don't know enough to really explain but.... if someone is acting like a child.... it's sometimes good to deal with them in the parent mode.  If they act like an adult... you deal with them as a manipulative child.  The goal is to both face each other as adults but...... I often think about the above when dealing with people.  Margo