Thought process in an N?

[McGirl]

Thanks to CB123, Ami and Hopalong for your thoughts. I can see that this is a place where I will find wisdom and comfort.
I now feel that I should not have thrown my son's clothes on the floor.  I liked your way better, CB123, and I will think of you if I have a similar experience soon......I did get pretty mad. I agree that sometimes I am so afraid that my son is becoming his father that I lose perspective and my emotions zing out of control. I guess it may not be my 17 acting like N, but N never stopped acting like a teenager(and teenagers are pretty naturally self centered).

You asked why N said I was too spiritual- this is because he is an atheist and he sees faith as a weakness. He wants his 3 sons to reflect him only, so he openly discourages belief in a God, and encourages only the activities and topics that he is interested in- weightlifting, skiing, being a republican and living an elite life. Anything else, he ridicules, so they act like they don't like it either. He constantly belittles anybody who is heavy or smokes or is religious or a democrat or environmentalist and on and on, like he is so superior. It tears me apart. After they spend a weekend with him(every other) they come home surly with a condescending attitude toward me. I breaks my heart. Their dad (N) has an air of excitement around him constantly(I felt chaos). He creates it, he was happiest when there was a new development on TV, even if it was tragedy, because he gets all revved up. That's how he keeps the kids, constantly revved.And demanding the best. They always have to have the best meals, like he is always asking them what I cook for them. He puts me down if I make sloppy joes or tacos- his kids should be eating steak and king crab!

He is a doctor. He ran off with a married chickie that he worked with, 15 years younger than him. We had been married for 16 years. I had just finished 6 months of chemo, and my hair was about 1-1/2 inches long when he left. I really had no idea  of anything wrong, I thought we were happily married. I was counting on him for support. I thought he was my best friend. I was away for the weekend with the boys and when we came home he was gone. He actually told my boys that they would get over it in 2 weeks. He was so cold to me from that moment on. Like night and day. He just flipped off the switch in his brain with my name on it. It has been the single most devastating loss in my life. That was 3 years ago and we are still in the process of divorcing. That is really hard. He is so sneaky and calculating and manipulative that it has been really hard on me.I don't know if he changed or if he was always that way and I just didn't see it.

But anyway, now I am involved with another man. This man is kind, calm, loves to laugh and he  is spiritual. He likes my sons and they like him. This has shown me how very much I was missing in my marriage. I can remember telling N how scared I was on a night before a CT scan,a nd he would say a very flat "everything will be OK" and then he would go right to sleep. I can call my current boyfriend at 2 am, and he would talk to me for hours if I was afraid. I would never have dreamt of waking N, he would have been so mean.

But my greatest fear is that my sons will emulate their dad. His life is glamorous. He has $$$$. My 17 yr old son had a job, and bought a used car, N told him to quit, that he didn't have to work, and bought him a brand new SUV, and since it was the same color as his hummer, he pulled it up alongside and took a photo, as if to say" see, you are like me!". It made me feel physically ill. I just keep trying to instill some values in them, and hoping something sticks. I have nightmarish thoughts sometimes that they will grow up and spend a lot of time with him because he will have a retirement home in Florida on a beach, and  he will take them out west to ski and there will be no time left to hang out with me. I know they love me, but I'm not real glitzy. I can't compete with "the beautiful people".

[isittoolate]

(((((((((((((((((((((((awwwww McGirl)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

What a story. I am so embroiled now with my anger is at my daughter, but this is a place for all to say all and have support.

I wish you well. I'm SO happy you have a boy friend.!!

xx

Izzy

[Hopalong]

McG,
You've been their mother their whole lives.

And you can't be wiped out by his superficiality.

There may be times, even long stretches, when they seem lost to his vapid values.

But when real life kicks in, or they lose someone they love, or face real-world disappointment,
they'll remember where the real-world love is, where the kindness is.

Don't despair. Just keep loving them, stick up for yourself, and keep teaching your values.

You are not invisible and your mothering hasn't been wasted.

Courage,

Hops

[McGirl]

Thanks Izzy and Hops,

I  will fight the good fight for my sons.

N-exH's mother was an N. She was difficult, very difficult. With a glance she could wither N-exH. Only in illness did she seem to mellow. That is when we were able to connect, after years and years of her trying to make me uncomfortable constantly. I must say she became kind, and dropped her hard edge. She became "human" with vulnerability and pain. It is very sad that it took such extreme circumstances, but it did. For those posting with N mothers, I hope it doesn't take such extremes, but even though it did in my mother in law's case, it still was very healing to our relationship.

[McGirl]

Hi  guys,

Thanks again for the support and wisdom. I am grateful.

Tonight I had a discussion with 17 yr. old son. The way he talks it sounds as though he hates women. He was talking about how all the girls at school are so stupid and PMS is truly only present in 5% of women and how the girls are always so bitchy and they use that as an excuse and they don't know anything blah blah blah. I said , gee, it sounds like you don't like women. He said are you saying I'm gay, and i said "of course not, I just wonder why you often have negative experiences with women. Maybe you come off so hard lined"(they all talk politics and religion, in which he has adopted N-exH's views-No God, and democrats are mentally deficient)"that you get a defensive response. Try treating the girls you talk to with kindness and respect. Be open and don't put down their views" I tried to use examples of how I use kindness at my job to diffuse tension and anger and he said "that is because when you are kind to patients then they can feel like a victim, and they all want to be a victim. I said no, they feel considered and regarded and we all like to be regarded. He said he didn't need to feel regarded, he just won't put up with that attitude, he'll give it right back. I explained that something I just read talked about how chronic complainers are actually making themselves a victim of all of the people around them that aren't smart enough or thin enough or drive well enough etc. I told him to be careful that he isn't being a victim himsef.
Ughhh. I felt like my N-exH was in the room. I think he has been brainwashing the boys(duh). I know he has. My 17 said that his dad said "If a girl ever wants to get married, run the other way as fast as you can" That really angers me, because N-exH can take credit for ruining his own life. He had affairs, he left the marriage, he wanted what he got, now why won't he just shut up and be happy???What kind of a man tells his son that? The poor kid! He is trying to set 17 up for a life of what? No meaninful intimate relationship? NO family? I just don't get it. I was a good and kind wife and mother. It hurts me to see my son have his head loaded up with this garbage.

You asked, CB. about my health.So far, so good. My goal has been to live long enough for all 3 sons to graduate high school.I have 5 more years to reach that goal and then I'll want to add 4 more to see the youngest graduate from college. Then hopefully I'll have many other goals of my own to reach for. I had stage 3 ovarian cancer and my 4 year anniversary is coming up next week, June 6th! It has been so hard, and I would never have believed I would live to see 4 more birthdays!!! I never get sad about aging! To me each birthday is a gift from God!! Bring it on!

My boyfriend sat and rubbed my feet for an hour tonight. I had an 11 hour day at work and they hurt. I am so very blessed to now have a nurturing man. Did you ever hear that song"God blessed the broken road to you"? That is my life. I have been blessed to have Nex-H say "see ya", even though it was painful. I know that it has hurt the kids tremendously, and their lives are for ever altered, but now I have a glimmer of a hope that boyfriend and others can model better male behavior than N-exH and all of heavy drinking rich buddies. I have been disposed of by N-exH, but by that I have been truly freed.

I am so touched by this board and the caring that i feel and see here.

Hugs,

McGirl

[McGirl]

Ami,

I wanted to send you this prayer because you were talking about fearing being alone. I felt so alone a lot in the last few years and I saw this at a shop and bought it to hang in my bedroom.It is by Colom-cille, who was a Celt, he may have even been a saint, I'm not sure:

"Alone with none but Thee my God, I journey on my way.
What need I fear when Thou art near, Oh King of night and day!
More safe am I within Thy hand than if a host did round me stand"

You are so right when you say we are never alone........


Peace to you,

McGirl

[McGirl]

Dear Ami,

I am sorry to hear what you have gone through and continue to go through. It is difficult. It seems that an inordinate number of physicians are Ns. I am not sure if N's seek out that profession or if they may have a tendency because of N parents to be pushed toward that type of earning power, or prestige. Because a son or daughter who is in any high earning job brings a type of power to the parents as well. I always knew that my N-ex was cocky and a bit arrogant, but he was so very smart and good at what he did that I
accepted it. I was proud of him.But the power that he developed over his years in practice(20yrs) really seemed to corrupt his soul. Money, power, women throwing themselves at his feet, all of this was more than he could handle. Or maybe it was just what he wanted.

I did not have N parents. My Dad was wonderful, a welder in a steel mill, and my Mom is wonderful too. They were good and kind and wanted me to succeed and be happy. They were happily married for 47 years when Dad died. Mom is still supporting me in any way she can. (She brought dinner over tonight-she's 77!)

I ended up with my N-ex because he was handsome and charming and I was seduced by his intellect, as well as his ability to play and laugh and we really hit it off. The room ws alive when he was in it.We were happy ( I was happy the whole time) rather he was happy until the kids came and our lives changed. We used to go out a lot and party and we did  alot of traveling. Life changed and by the 3rd kid, he wasn't having as much fun. I think that was it. He couldn't recenter his life to make the kids a part of a new whole. He still wanted the late nights at the bars and the same life, just with kids.  I didn't like late nights or partying anymore because I had early mornings with little ones. I really expected that he would also change in that way,and he did not at all.He gets  14 weeks vacation a year and always wanted to travel, but the kids were in school. We basically cramped his style. I have no doubt that he loves his sons very much, as much as he knows how. He just doesn't understand anything about the sacrifices that parents make for their kids. For example, my son had a percussion solo in 8th grade.N-ex refused to go. He shamed my son into dropping out of the band because N-ex didn't approve. Not manly to be in the band. He told me in front of my son that he wasn't going because I pushed my son into band. While I did require him to take an instrument, I felt that N-ex did a terrible disservice to our son by refusing to go. N-ex looked at my son and said do you care if I go or not, and my son said NO, but I could see the hurt and confusion on his face. I almost cried when we got there, all the families were videotaping and so proud,and my jerk N is at home watching the news. I think N wanted to blame his bad behavior on me so he turned it into"you made him play in the band", therefore you are bad not me. Meanwhile my son was also in a rock band and was very talented.

My N was really always nice to me until he decided he was done, and he moved on with the ultrasound tech. I think he was with her for 2-3 years of our marriage, and that was when he started being cold and indifferent and downright mean to me. Prior to that he was not "in touch with his feminine side", but he was nice to me. Very generous and even considerate in some ways. Never emotional or expressive of feelings, but pleasant. His needs were always met so he was happy. When he was being so miserable I would ask him what was wrong and he would blame it on work.Meanwhile he was leading a double life.

I appreciate you saying what you said about being careful in marriage again. I doubt that I will ever marry again. I like having a boyfriend. I like having my own bathroom. I like sleeping alone a lot of nights. I stil have 3 sons at home.  My boyfriend would like to marry as soon as I divorce, which is drawn out. But I told him I may never marry. I told him I like just having a boyfriend, albeit a very special boyfriend. He is a blacksmith and artist in steel. Very earthy. Likes to camp. N-ex wouldn't camp, too much "white trash" at the campgrounds.

How do you keep your boys from turning against you? I try very hard to never say anything bad about their dad as they get very defensive. They know the facts. When he first left and I then found out a week later about the girlfriend I told them. But I think he has told them all sorts of things about how I changed and he didn't feel the same and lots of people are unhappy but they don't have the courage to leave. (So now he is the courageous hero- the courageous hero that packed up and moved out while we were at the amusement park for the weekend[he doesn't do amusement parks either-"too much white trash"!]). I was so floored. He was at the house when we got home, and he said we needed to talk. I thought he was sick. I was so scared for him! And he tells me he moved out. He had been unhappy for 10 years!  I was really in shock. We had sex 2 nights before, and had just came back from a trip to Arizona with the kids. It sure seemed like we had fun.

My N-ex was very mean also when anybody was sick. God forbid one of the kids got a sore throat! He would never yell or get loud. Just cold and dissapproving. Like you feel bad for having a sore throat because it makes him unhappy. When my kids stayed home sick from school, if we were playing a board game, as soon as they heard his car, they would jump on the couch and pull the blankets up to their chin and look very sick!And when I had chemo treatments he just ignored me. He went along and read the paper and went out to lunch and I sat there, and my wonderful girlfriends were always there for me to fill in the holes. Boyfriend would have held my hand, made me laugh, rubbed my back. My friends brought meals when I was sick. N -ex hated that. He only ate the best food, so how could he eat some "cassarole." One of the times that I stood up to him he said" call Mary and tell her to stop organizing these meals! I'm sick of it!" I said If you want her to stop, you call her. He never did. He had a way of trying to set me up as the bad guy. Some of his friends told me after he left that he would say that I was a bitch and never let hin do anything. That was so untrue, because I loved it when he left! It was my vacation when he was out of the house. The vibes were happy and light. He changed the air.

I've gone on for way to long, it just feels good to let it out. I  may get a copy of Vaknin's book. I've not read it.

How old are your sons? Do they treat you in a condescending way? Does N?

Thanks for listening Ami,

Peace,

McGirl

[reallyME]

ISITTO,

I'm going to make this brief as I have to go to bed so I can wake early in the morning to sell flowering onions at my concession stand.

First, I remember when you first came to V-board.  Glad you stuck it out and found some help and a place to share.

Next, i want to say something in response to this general post.

A while ago, someone came on the board and mentioned something about "what if your husband or children knew that you were on here talking about them"  well, now's my chance to let you all know that my counselor agreed with me that I married a person with definite N traits.  He is not stuck at 2 yrs old as much as about maybe 4-6 and then sometimes in the teen years.  He, too, when I ask him about behavior will look at me with a dumb look on his face and say "when was THIS?  I don't remember."  It makes me want to shake him. 

I'm putting him and X and all dysfunctional people into the Lord's hands, cause honestly, I can't and don't want to deal with them anymore.

~L