Thought process in an N?

[Lupita]

Copied from Confounded.

In reading on the subject I have noted that N has a strong hereditary component.  Thus, I am reluctant to focus on the environment too any great degree. This has been borne out by my personal experience. 

I am very interested in any article that can explain what the internal experience is like for the N.  The way that thought process works, I cannot figure out.  Just wanted to start a new thread that talks about thi inner soul, if they have one, thought porcess if they can really think, and inheritance compound.

It would be so much interesting to find out what is going on in the little mind of our beloved Ns? Please help if you know something I can read, or post articles, or anything that can help me understand, if it is possible to understand.

Thank you for your help.

[WRITE]

Hi Lupita, hope you are doing ok.

I'm not a fan of Vaknin, interesting ideas not really a theory or treatment model.

There are piles of articles here, Richard's essays and a lot of qualitative personal experience of living with the condition.

As an answer to your question I don't think there's much different about the mind of someone with NPD to ourselves, they have adopted a set of behaviours which compensate for their low self-esteem, depression and self-loathing which we experience as uncomfortable or abusive and which serve to keep them 'stuck'.

They are also individuals so each person will be different.

People talk about lack of empathy in NPD, it's true, it's not just that though: if you can get the person to see or acknowledge the effect on others they experience exaggerated shame...which fuels more grandiosity etc.

There's no magic way to interact with a NPD ( or any abusive person ) I don't think, just do what you have to do to get through, disengage and not repeat the experience!

I wasted a lot of time trying to fix my ex, and though it has reaped some rewards in that he has been to therapy and his behaviours are less extreme and more manageable it's still an inconsistent broken person who can shift positions in an instant: just last week after all this work and therapy and talking he told me he does not have NPD and I am insulting him. Today he acknowledged it again and when I asked about what he said last week he shrugged and didn't seem to remember.

Strange.

[Lupita]

Dear Write, Dear Ami, Dear CB, same here, with my mother. She really makes me crazy, desperate. But Hop says she is not doing it in purpose. She does not even know the effect of her actions on me. They do not know the damage they do. Would we punish a blind man for stepping on our toes? Would be punish a deaf person for not answering a question? Still. it makes us climb the walls. As write said we need to detach, get away from them, if we cannot physically leave them, we have to emotionally leave them, forever. I cannot abandone my mother, I still have to write her e mails, talk to her on the phone, she comes to visit, she is visiting now ofr my surgery, but still, I am not able to detach. I suffer for evere thing she does.
 

[Lupita]

Hopalong, what do you think? did you read us in this thread? We sound so similar, we all sound so similar!!!!!!!

[Lupita]

http://www.nevergoodenough.com/

This website seems to be interesting. Please, check it.

Welcome To The Website For Daughters
Raised By Narcissistic Mothers

Here you will find information related to an upcoming book: NEVER GOOD ENOUGH, How Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers Can Heal from the Legacy of Distorted Love, written by Dr. Karyl McBride.

“But enough about me. Let’s talk about you. What do YOU think of me?”
Bette Midler as CC Bloom in Beaches.

When I was a little girl, I had a talking doll named “Chatty Cathy”. Whenever I pulled her string, she spoke the same phrases: “Tell me a story” or “Please brush my hair.” It may seem strange, but when I think about how to describe a “narcissistic mother,” I have visions of that talking doll. A narcissistic mother’s interactions with her daughter are as predictably self-centered as the Chatty Cathy doll. No matter how many times the daughter “pulls the string”- hoping that her mother will focus on her and her needs, the mother’s involvement with her is always about Mom. As small children we don’t understand these dynamics between ourselves and our mothers. Mom may look like the perfect mother, just like Chatty Cathy looked like the perfect friend, yet the child is constantly struggling with feelings of disappointment, sadness, emptiness and frustration. She is longing for the emotional support and nurturing that she never receives from her mother.

Never Good Enough, is for the daughters of narcissistic mothers who have spent much of their adult lives dealing with the fallout of never having received maternal support and love.
Being the adult daughter of a narcissistic mother means that you were raised by someone who cared more for herself than she did for you. She approved of you only when your behavior reflected well upon her or your family. Since her love for you was conditional, you inherited a distorted sense of love and lacked the experience of genuine maternal nurturing. As a result, you have likely developed particular coping mechanisms: you hide or deny your pain, you become involved in intimate relationships that tend to be unhealthy or unsatisfying, you are an overachiever or a self-sabotager. There is the feeling, which directly relates to never having been able to please your mother, of never being quite good enough in relationship, career and life in general. Daughters of narcissistic mothers seem to flounder in life, struggling with chronic feelings of inadequacy and emptiness, knowing there is something wrong but not understanding what that something might be. For them, life thus becomes an agony of self-doubt.

Never Good Enough, gives a voice to the feelings these daughters have buried, offers them insight into the origins of their pain, and provides a blueprint for healing that can be personally tailored to each reader. Never Good Enough, explains the narcissistic mother dynamics to adult daughters and provides them with strategies so that they can begin to overcome their legacy of distorted love and enjoy their lives more fully.

NEVER GOOD ENOUGH: How Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers Can Heal from the Legacy of Distorted Love, is a self-help book written for adult daughters of narcissistic mothers. In this book, Dr. Karyl McBride is sharing her years of clinical and personal research to help daughters heal.

Learn more here about the topic of maternal narcissism and sign the registry to be notified of the publication release of upcoming title: Never Good Enough.
We also invite you to join our message board and share your thoughts and stories as well as gain support from other daughters of narcissistic mothers. Dr. McBride will be joining our discussion board on an intermittent basis as she is completing this important book.

Would you like to be interviewed for the book? Click here.

[Stormchild]

Thanks Lupita. I wrote her to volunteer for an interview.

[Lupita]

When you are a new born, if you have to cry louder to be fed, you will learn that you have to cry louder forever whtever you need. If she waits too mcuh o feed you when you are three days born and she lets you cry too mch to give you your bottle or breast, you learn that you have to cry louder to get whatever you need, your mother has created a whiner, becauswe you know that if you do not exagerate your complein you will not sasitsfied your need, that means that you were made to wait too much to get fed with bottel or breast, that means she has created a whiner ofr the rest of your life.

[Lupita]

That is just one of one thousand reasons that I think that is one thousand reasons more important to have an N mother thtan to have an N husband, probably you get an N husband when you have an N mother. I do not make any sense because  I cant think clearly, I am numbed. I am totally psychilogylaly drunk.

[isittoolate]

A narcissist's emotional growth stops maturing at the age of 2 1/2 or 3 years of age. This may be due to a trauma, which was more than their young psyche could withstand. Emotional growth was shut down, while intellectual and physical growth continued into adulthood.

Those who live with a narcissist usually begin to dance to the whimsical tune of a toddler in an adult body. This can be overwhelming and sometimes cripples family members emotionally until they understand the narcissist's game plan.

Children of narcissists, often choose a narcissist for a mate. At first, it may feel cozy and homelike to be manipulated by a handsome, charming, tyrannical lover, along with making them feel crazy and hurt.

[michael]

has all of the tribe of...
Thought process in an N?
...thread

met all of the tribe of...
What are the inner thoughts in the N state of mind? « 1 2 »  ..
...thread

i feel like there could be one of rev. sun jung moons mass marriage in the future between your tribes

here is something from the other tribe to consider
 Re: What are the inner thoughts in the N state of mind?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2007, 09:07:40 PM »   

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CONFOUNDED HAD BROUGHT UP IN ANOTHER THREAD....

Quote
Confounded
Newbie

Posts: 20


  Re: proposed new theory on understanding narcissists
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2007, 01:38:12 AM »   

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In reading on the subject I have noted that N has a strong hereditary component.  Thus, I am reluctant to focus on the environment too any great degree. This has been borne out by my personal experience. 

After receiving the diagnosis of "N tendencies" for my H, and having continued problems with his periodic fits of insistence that he is always right (huh?) and anger, I called his mother, looking for explanations and suggestions.  She advised, bottom line, that his father was the same way.  She said that she "ignored" his dad, who "had some very strong ideas," and "once he got going there was no point in talking to him."

I am very interested in any article that can explain what the internal experience is like for the N.  The way that thought process works, I cannot figure out. 

I find myself thinking, "Well, if I'm wrong, and somebody corrects me, then they actually help me. They leave me better than they found me.  However, if someone functioning as an N refuses to see or admit when he's wrong, then he's wrong twice.  He's wrong once in the issue at hand, and again in his refusal to accept that he is mistaken.  Why don't they feel embarrassed?  It's like the Emperor's new clothes.  He's naked for God's sake!" 

I think it's pretty sad.  Sometimes he seems to be posing (e.g., saying that he's always right) simply to aggravate me, and at other times, he seems to actually believe it.  I don't think that he talks to himself internally.  Maybe everybody has an internal dialog, although I have the impression that he may not (hmmm... is there something to this?).  Anyway, if he did have an internal dialog, I think it might sound like this at times, "It's okay.  I'm not wrong.  She's wrong.  I'm not wrong.  She needs to stop saying that I'm wrong.  I'm NOT wrong.  I"M NOT WRONG!  GRRRR!!!"  But then at other times, he can now joke about it, saying, "Oh sure. I'm never wrong.  Never.  (smile)"  It seems like he goes into a delusional state at times, and at other times he is somehow aware that he can become delusional.

In the end, since he hardly pays any attention to anything that is not directly related to his getting his needs met, he knows very little about many things that go on in his immediate vicinity.  Thus, he often has little information with which to operate, and he makes numerous mistakes.  We wants none of these mentioned.  If I tell him that he didn't do something as we had discussed previously, he gets furious. 

What ends up happening feels very odd.  I start thinking that maybe I'm an N because I'm the one finding fault.  But then I think, "I'm just trying to get him to act normal and remember what we discuss."  I suppose that if I worry that I might be an N, when I become annoyed by his chronic  inability to focus on anything outside his own priorities, then I'm probably not an N.  But this talk of needing affirmation (I am more motivated by kudos than $), wanting to do things right (not pretend, actually do it right), and thinking that lots of other people can't cut it (I prefer to deal with other professionals, people who think and speak quickly), sounds like me.  Except that I'm willing to do the work to get the kudos, and if I screw up I definitely want to know about it.  So I just keep coming back the difference between genuine self-confidence and some kind of defensive false confidence, unable to be real, for fear of some horrible outcome.  I don't know what that horrible outcome could be.  Seems like it would be worse to look like an idiot insisting that one is right, when clearly has no clue.

If anybody knows, or has a source that explains, what the inner thoughts are in the N state of mind, I would really 

SOME THINGS IN THAT OTHER THREAD SUCH AS
GIVING THE SOURCE OF A NEW THEORY OF NARCISSISM
BELOW
 To help clarify to some, the proposed theory comes from an abstract for something that is online
and to view the full text, i think one has to join some way.
It is not my theory 

Abstract
Psychological Inquiry
2001, Vol. 12, No. 4, Pages 177-196
(doi:10.1207/S15327965PLI1204_1)



Unraveling the Paradoxes of Narcissism: A Dynamic Self-Regulatory Processing Model

Carolyn C. Morf‌
Behavioral Science Research Branch, National Institute of Mental Health
Frederick Rhodewalt‌
Department of Psychology, University of Utah


here is the url
http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327965PLI1204_
   
AND AN ABSTRACT OF THE ARTICLE ..BELOW
We propose a dynamic self-regulatory processing model of narcissism and review supporting evidence. The model casts narcissism in terms of motivated self-construction, in that the narcissist's self is shaped by the dynamic interaction of cognitive and affective intrapersonal processes and interpersonal self-regulatory strategies that are played out in the social arena. A grandiose yet vulnerable self-concept appears to underlie the chronic goal of obtaining continuous external self-affirmation. Because narcissists are insensitive to others' concerns and social constraints and view others as inferior, their self-regulatory efforts often are counterproductive and ultimately prevent the positive feedback that they seek-thus undermining the self they are trying to create and maintain. We draw connections between this model and other processing models in personality and employ these models to further elucidate the construct of narcissism. Reconceptualizing narcissism as a self-regulatory processing system promises to resolve many of its apparent paradoxes, because by understanding how narcissistic cognition, affect, and motivation interrelate, their internal subjective logic and coherence come into focus.

SO THAT BEING DONE NOW...
THE QUESTION HAVE ANY ACCESSED THE ARTICLE
AS TAKING FROM THE ABOVE ABSTRACT IT SAYS
Reconceptualizing narcissism as a self-regulatory processing system promises to resolve many of its apparent paradoxes, because by understanding how narcissistic cognition, affect, and motivation interrelate, their internal subjective logic and coherence come into focus.
OF SPECIAL NOTE THAT IS SPEAKS OF UNDERSTANDING BETTER THE NARCSISSIST'S INTERNAL SUBJECTIVE LOGIC ....
THE BUGGER IS THAT TO ACCESS THE ARTICLE ... IT COSTS...
 
WITH THE ADDENDUM THAT THE URL WAS WRONG AND CORRECTED IS
http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327965PLI1204_1

[Lupita]

I truely deeply apologize but I do not understand what Mike says. Maybe I am a little retarded but the sophisticated language is too elaborated for my understanding. Also, I do believe that there is a huge difference between a woman adult raised by an N mother and a woman adult married to an N husband. That is why I started a new thread. Hope that somebody can help me in this matter.

A woman adult married to an N husband does not understand why the husband is like he is, but a woman raised by an N mother grows up all confused, not understanding what is going on, N mother rewards when she feels well no matter if you did right or wrong, and punish you if she feels bad, no matter if you did right or wrong, and that happenes when youa re learning at an extremely early age. That is why I believe that being raised by an N mother is different.

The article that I posted seems to be interesting. I registered for an interview. If you think that they can damage me, please let me know. I do not know if they can use your real name or somebody will know who you are. I do not know if they will help you or just use you.

Please, your thoughts are very much appreciated.

God bless you all.

Love to you all,

Lupita

[Lupita]

Also, you can always leave your husband, but how to leave your mother?
You were not born with your husband. you can live with out him. But leaving with out a mother is hell, and l with her is hell. Your mother gave you birth. Your mother fed you, provided roof for you, clothing. How can you leave her, she is your mother, your family, a husband is a stranger that you invite in to your home. Your mother is not a stranger. is your mother.
She is your mother!!!!! For Christ!!!!! She is your mother!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lupita]

[font=Verdana]How can you leave your mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/font[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]]

[Lupita]

by understanding how narcissistic cognition, affect, and motivation interrelate, their internal subjective logic and coherence come into focus.

This is what I am looking for, to understand, but this does not give any explanation on how the internal subjective logic works in this kind of human beings.

This does not help me. I need help.

[Sally]

Dear Lupita,

While I agree that there are differences between having an N husband and having an N mother, I think the 2 are connected in the following way:  I believe that a woman (or man) who was raised by a N mother (or parent) will marry (or be attracted to) an N man (or spouse).

So, I believe that marrying (or being attracted to) an N spouse can be the consequence of being raised by an N parent (particularly an N mother).  This is because the N parent has conditioned us from childhood to accept abuse, not stand up for ourselves, destroyed our sense of self, have no boundaries, plus all the other bad stuff an N parent does to their child.  This conditining leaves the child very vulnerable to choosing an N spose (or partner/love interest).


Sally