I was looking for more information on the subject of helping our children cope with N parents. I'm providing these messages and found them helpful. Many of these women have excellent information and have been there, done that.
/Doc@DrIrene.com
Interactive Board: My Ex MisTreats Our Son...
September 7, 2005
Dear Dr. Irene
I was married to a man that was, I always though, controlling and manipulative. I finally left him when my son was a year old - only because he refused to end an affair of a couple years in length. Good for you! Of course, that was my fault of course..., but that is another story in and of itself. I'm sure it is...
I will not make excuses for tolerating his behavior, and am trying to work around it. I came from a sexually abusive family, and was raped at 18. I was in the process of putting my life together when I met him. I know, excuses. No, not "excuses." You were doing what we all do: arranging your life according to what you knew; what was familiar. This is your learning history and it shapes you about as much as your genetics do.
My question, is not for myself but for my son, who is 7. I share custody with my ex. For some reason, I believed that my ex's treatment of my would not extend to my child. Yet now I am faced with statements he makes to my child that make me cringe.
My son must do certain things to show his love for his father. That includes an excited "Daddy!", whenever he sees him. (When he doesn't my ex accuses him of not respecting, appreciating or loving him. Ugh!) If my son doesn't call him when he is with me, my ex tells him how sad he was. My ex will tell my son that he was all alone and so sad that they weren't together. He asks at the end of visits and at the beginning to insure that frequent phone calls occur. Does your son have a law guardian? This is very manipulative stuff, as I'm sure you know.
My ex will get mad at my son for "making him look like a bad father" when I confront him on bad behavior. Most recently my ex was asking my son if he really loved him. Ugh... I think you need to talk to your attorney...
To my shame, everything echoes my relationship with my ex. Everything I had to do to "prove" my love to him. And all of the things he said I did that showed him that I didn't love him. I have avoided conflict with him, because I could never win an argument. I could never get my point across because you wanted him to "understand;" to see things as you saw them, and in the end had everything always turn out to be my fault. Of course. I have let myself struggle because I did not want to fight with him over money. I let him win, basically. Because it would be extremely stressful if you did not.
Because of my childhood, I swore that I would never just roll over. I would protect my own child should it become necessary. That is what haunts me now. OK, so you have to learn to fight a little better. Keep in mind though that you grew up with sexual abuse. That is, I think, the worst kind of abuse a child can undergo. Your son is not in a sexual abuse situation, and that is good news! Also, while you don't know how to counter your ex-husband's antics yet, you do know what is going on. Your job will be to help your child understand that what dad is doing is not OK, and why, in a manner appropriate to his age, and in a manner which does not bash his dad, but which also does not excuse him.
How do I confront someone that has always won in the past? My son loves his father, and wants to share time with him. How do I foster a healthy relationship between my son and his father? You can't foster their relationship. You have no control over their relationship. But you can help your son understand that some of what daddy is asking for is not OK, and that it's not his responsibility to make his daddy happy, even though daddy thinks it is.
In the past I have made excuses for my ex. Don't do this. My thought was that if I gave an explanation to my son, he wouldn't feel rejection, or that there was something wrong with him. Just be honest. You have to find an age-appropriate way tell him that while both of you love him very much, the reason you got divorced is because daddy has some problems: daddy has certain expectations of others that are just impossible to meet - and should in fact not be met! And while it is OK to love daddy, it is also OK not to meet all of daddy's expectations. On the other hand, I don't want to put my ex down There is a difference between putting daddy down and stating the truth: that some of daddy's expectations of us are not OK and not healthy., and have my son not feel free to talk to me about things. I also don't want him to get beaten over the head with what is said, when I am not around to protect him. Please consider involving a law guardian - and a therapist!
On the latest, do you love me comment, I had lost my ability to rationalize, and just told my son that some people are insecure, that the best thing my son could do was be himself, and answers his fathers question. This is actually a pretty excellent answer! It is the truth.
I am not concerned about physical violence. My ex only hit me once, and that wasn't a black eye causing event. He does not want to be "the bad guy" with my son, so I just don't foresee that as an issue. Excellent.
I am forced to face the confrontation. A school counselor, told me once that my son trusts everything I say implicitly, "Mommy said so, so it must be true". I was warned that I needed to be more honest with him, so as not to lose that trust, that I needed to stop protecting him. Yes! I am simply at a loss on how to be honest, encourage his self esteem, and help maintain a good relationship with his father. Don't you see, you just did it in your reply above. You told your kid that daddy's expectation of him was BS, which is was, and that he should just be himself. You are not blocking his relationship with his father. You are clarifying his relationship with his father, and you are not lying about who his father is.
Any advice, or direction I can take, would be much appreciated. Maya
Dear Maya, Hehehe... Just be YourSelf! The way you answered your son was honest and to the point. You won't get too far with your son if you try to justify your ex-husband's emotionally abusive interactive style. At some point, he will no longer believe you. Be honest. You are not putting daddy down if you simply call a spade a spade.
So maybe you're not too good at standing up to him for yourself, but you sure did a great job with that comment to your son!
In an age-appropriate manner (as you used above) tell your son that you are glad he loves his daddy and you want them to have a good relationship. Also tell your son that you don't agree with daddy when what daddy wants hurts him. Tell him that daddy does not want to hurt him on purpose, yet, that is exactly what is happening - and that is not OK. That this is exactly why you and daddy are not together anymore.
You told your son that daddy was "insecure." This is very good, because it is the truth.
The older your boy gets, the more you can explain. It would be very helpful if you could find a counselor to work with. It is difficult for a child to understand that there is something fundamentally wrong with one of their parents.
Meanwhile, do your best to deal with your ex. Kids learn via "modeling," or by imitating their parents' behavior. The better you model healthy behavior, the more likely your son is to learn it. So, continue to work on learning to deal with your ex. Pick up a copy of The Secret of Overcoming Verbal Abuse: Getting Off the Emotional Roller Coaster and Regaining Control of Your Life by Albert Ellis et al. and practice it, master it.
Think about what I've said and feel free to post any questions or comments you have. I will be back in about a week to answer your concerns.
Readers: Any comments for Maya? This is a tough situation, yet it comes up too often. How have you handled these issues?
My warmest regards to you Maya, Dr. Irene
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Comments: Ex MisTreats Our Son
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Maya, Your concerns are so familiar. I have come tonight to this website seeking sanity, clarity - A probably bi-annual visit, and here is your letter, posted today. My Ex is seeking custody of my son, just turned 13. His Dad has been pressuring him for two years now (He left 8 years ago), and now that our older son has graduated HS, he filed for custody at the same time as discontinuing support for the older one. The thing is, he pushes and pressures until he gets what he wants and goes on to push for the next thing. He says things over and over again until it starts to sound normal or real. My kids are the priority in my life. We have three: two now in college and the youngest in 8th grade. I make my decisions based on what's best for them. Their Dad doesn't contribute to college, rarely goes to their concerts or sports, doesn't take the youngest to religious education or extracurricular activities when he visits (says it is his time), and talks to them in a confiding manner, subtly slandering/criticizing me or their school, friends, etc.. It has been one trauma, distortion, and accusation after another for the last 8 years. I am angry, afraid, confused, and tired. I want to tell myself that this custody struggle will be the end of all that, a new beginning. But I don't how. I like the advice of telling the truth. Knowing it and holding on to it, not internalizing the blame or the distortions, not becoming confused and panicky, - that is not easy for me. I keep seeking a witness for clarify and validation, although that can backfire sometimes. I used to know things; now I'm mostly scared. What do you do if someone always wins? If they cheat and lie to win, and seem to think that you need to be hurting so that they are not? kd
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Monday, September 12, 2005
HI Maya, I can relate to the difficulties in relating to an ex who is not outright abusive however you know in your heart is not being fair to your son. It is so painful to watch when some of this you will not control no matter what you do. I have 3 kids, almost 15, almost 12 and 8. The oldest sees dad pretty honestly. She is frustrated going to his house and angry at his behavior. We have been separated about 6 months now and he keeps on pushing for a 50-50 split. I just do not agree. Recently my oldest child's best friend told me that he thought she would have serious problems spending 50-50 with dad. Based on that I spoke to her briefly and she does not even want as much time as she has now. She is almost 15 so the courts may listen to her. The younger children express frustration but not as directly. One thing I have done for many years and probably breaks the `rules' is stand up for my kids when he is out of line. I was always told to put my marriage before the kids but when he was unreasonable I could not do that. It is harder when they are out of your house and you do not know what is happening exactly. I do try to ask more questions that impose answers and it sounds like you are doing that with your son. I listen and comment on what I hear. Some complaints are pretty typical kid complaints like having to do the dishes. I do not back up the kids on that type of complaint generally. When they say he is late all the time or has a hard time getting up in the morning I do tell them that this has always been an issue so they should not expect much change. When they say he breaks his word or is fixing dinner so late they feel sick I encourage them to talk to him. They also have a counselor who can help out. Does your son have any type of counselor to work with? It may be useful to have a neutral party tell him that dad's behavior is not his fault and he can do nothing about it. The most important thing I want for my kids regardless of the time split with dad is that they know what is their fault and what is not. I am concerned they will internalize responsibility for what dad is feeling and doing. Because I do not think they can live at his house 50% and maintain this I am spending money on an investigator who will talk to us, the kids, teachers and DR's, etc. in order to make a recommendation to the court about custody. You can do a lot with modeling but you may also need to address actual time between households. You said you shared but I did not get a feel for how much time was at each house. It may be important eventually for your son to realize that the healthier parent gets more time to provide a stable home. Good luck
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Wednesday, September 14, 2005
Dr Irene, I used your advice. A little explanation, I suffered a serious injury, and have to move because I need the help physically. When I wouldn't readily give my son up, I ended up in court. A number of things have been said to him, including that he won't see me ever again. ???!!! I talked to the attorney about everything and just got told not to say anything right now. Unfortunately, this is what happens when we become litigious... Meanwhile my little boy is saving things "in the right side of his brain", so that he doesn't have to tell his father. I want to put him in counseling, just to give him a safe place to talk about what worries him, without having to think of his father or myself. A very good idea! Now he only has a whopping three weeks left with me. I can't even figure out how to tell him that he won't see me for the next six months, because the courts wouldn't even alter our custody agreement for me to have visitation until the hearing. I think you have to tell him something! He's going to worry about you and wonder if anything (bad) he did made mommy go away! Kids blame themselves. Which means his dad has control over it, and he already told me he wouldn't let him go. All this time I have told him that he needn't worry that the courts would always make sure he got to see his mother and father. I believed it, I was wrong. Now, how do I tell him that. You tell him. Find a way to tell him so that he doesn't think you went away because he did something wrong; find a way to tell him so he does not think you abandoned him! Are there any tools I can give him to help him with his father, when I am not here? How about a therapist and a law guardian? How about frequent phone calls, cards and letters, and even email. I don't feel I can answer your question very well because it makes no sense to me at all why you won't see your son for the next six months! I suppose you are moving far away, but you can make it your business to visit monthly or so. Am I really going to become "irrelevant" in his life? You are his Mom Maya. Moms are very special people! I don't think you need to worry about being irrelevant. I do think you need to make it your business to see him and/or somehow communicate with him as much as possible. Also explain that you are not leaving because you don't love him, etc., etc. Be honest with him; tell him what happened with the courts in a way he can understand; tell him you'll always be there for him, and how you expect to communicate with him over the next few months. Let him know that just because you won't be around all the time does not mean you will be out of his life. It would be good if he knew your phone number and could reach you when he wanted too. Teach him how to call you! Thank you for your time, Maya Dear Maya, this certainly won't be easy for either of you. I wish you a speedy recovery and a speedy reunion with your child. May God bless you and yours. Dr. Irene
