Author Topic: It's done  (Read 14996 times)

tayana

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It's done
« on: June 17, 2007, 10:37:37 PM »
Here's the result of my "confrontation."  Please note I stood my ground, even though it really hurt.  My son is truly something special.  He's so concerned because I keep crying, but I keep telling him I'm going to be fine.  I will be.  I just need some distance.  Here's how the conversations sort of went.  I have a pretty good memory for conversations, but not an exact one.  I think I got the most important points.  I managed to stay calm, although towards the end, my calm was starting to shatter.  Please note that this whole conversation was about her, not me, not my son, not my well thought out, well planned, adult decision.  I am according to her only do this to hurt her.

I told my mother tonight that we are moving.  It did NOT go well.  The conversation went a little like this.

Me:  I found a place and we're moving.
Her: Well, I knew something was going on.  Have you told you father?
Me:  A few days ago.  He's a little easier to talk to than you.
Her: And what did he say?
Me:  He was all right with the idea.
Her: And what about M?  What are you doing with him?
Me: Well, if you're willing to keep him, he can stay out here part of the summer, and go to summer camp part of the summer.
Her: And that gets out at what 3?  Then what's he supposed to do?
Me:  They have aftercare, and he can stay there until I get off work.  On the days that I get off early, he'd only be there about 30 minutes.
Her:  And I guess Bible school is out of the question, and his church (please note, M hasn't been to church since easter) too.
Me:  I don't think so.  I thought maybe he could stay out here that week and . . .
Her:  Yeah, right.  It's not going to happen.  And school?  How's he going to get to school?
Me:  I'm going to take him and pick him up.
Her: But you don't get off work till 5:30.
Me:  I don't work till 5:30.
Her:  Well five then.
Me:  He can stay at aftercare a little longer. (Note: M is okay with this idea, even excited about it)  I thought maybe you could keep him part of the summer, I would pay . . .
Her: You aren't going to be able to afford to pay for that.  You're going to have rent and utilities,  you'll have to have a phone, and food.  Do you know how much I spend on groceries (Note: I can cut my grocery bill significantly by not buying so much soda and meat)?  You have no idea...
Me:  I have no expenses. I can afford . ..
Her: And you aren't going to be able to buy all of this other stuff, and go buy . ..
Me: I'm aware of that.
Her: Well, you've got what you wanted now.
Me:  I'm tired of being punished.  You've been punishing me for 10 years.  You can either be supportive about my decision or be nasty about it.
Her: I've been supportive for ten years, and I haven't been punishing you.
Me: Yes, you have.  Everytime I got frustrated with M you'd say something like don't you wish you'd kept your legs together.  Do you know how much that hurts?
Her:  Do you know how much you hurt me when  . . . I just knew you were pregnant . . . and do you know how much that hurt me?"

My son interrupted at this point, and I sent him out to walk the dog, a little more stern than I meant to be.  I didn't want him to hear this.

Her: Well, it seems like you're doing everything you can to keep him away from me.
Me: I'm not, but--
Her:  Well, I'm glad you've got what you wanted.

She walked out and slammed the door.  That wasn't the exact conversation, but very close.  There was the point when she wanted to know what my rent was, and I said 775.  And she informed me we don't pay that here (It's 750).  And then she went on at length about how much stuff I have and how it isn't all going to fit in my 1000 square foot apartment.  And I said, so you just want me to take all of our stuff out?  She denied that that was what she meant, so I guess I'll rent a storage unit too, at least until I get rid of some of my crap.


I had a very long crying jag, and my son was very concerned about me.  My mom hasn't spoken to me since, and I doubt she will.  I talked to my brother a little bit ago to let him know how this all went down.  I really had hoped for something better, but I knew this was about how it would work.  My dad says he isn't mad at me, and my brother thinks I'm doing the best thing.  I think I'm doing the best thing.  I just want to be out of here.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
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CB123

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Re: It's done
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 10:50:56 PM »
Good for you Tayana.  You knew it was going to be hard, and you have been dreading it for days.  At least now it's over and it's about as bad as you expected.  But you've done it!  And you're on your way! 

It will be really hard, but try to concentrate on your OWN life now.  Try to let go of her reaction and not allow her to steal your peace.  You are going to look back on this and it is going to feel so far away some day.  The physical distance is going to make the emotional distance much easier. 

We're rooting for you Tayana!

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 11:00:14 PM »
Thanks CB.  I feel really guilty right now, although talking to my brother did help.  He said if he needed to meet me somewhere he would.

I just keep thinking about how things will be when we are moved and settled.  I emailed my aunt and uncle to let them know my new address and to extend an invitation to visit when they come through.

I think I will talk to my boss tomorrow, to tell him that I'm going through some personal problems right now, and that I might need to leave to get my son from camp to aftercare.  I think he'll be okay with that.  He's a pretty good boss.  And I need to talk to the camp director to make sure my son can go to aftercare if he goes to the art camps.  There isn't supposed to be aftercare for those.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: It's done
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 08:01:20 AM »
WOW Tayana,
   It is so great that you got out. It was a true act of courage . I think that when the dust of emotions settle, you will be really happy and realize what a big and bold move that you made--- with your own grit and courage.
    Tayana, one thing that you said about your M not talking to you again. Well, I really doubt that this will happen. She will be tied to you with Crazy Glue" . You will have to pry her hands off.. It is just an idle threat.                                                                                                                                                      I am surprised",in a way, that your F was so angry. I thought that he was your "friend" and supporter. What happened? When it came down to it, did he chose "peace" for himself? That is what my F would do.Peace at any price.
   How do you feel inside ,now? Are you really proud of yourself? I like your Eleanor Roosevelt quote.
   You did it, Tayana                                                                Love    Ami
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
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tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 09:58:35 AM »
Ami,

I'm not out yet, I don't have my keys until tomorrow, and I still have to move.

No, Ami, she'll talk to me.  She gave me a long lecture this morning about all the negative things that could possible happen when we move and how I've turned my son against her.

My dad wasn't angry, but he is caught in the middle.  That's not a very comfortable place.  He is supportive, just not in a very active way.  I call my brother last night, because no one thought to check on how I was feeling after the announcement.  He chose to placate my mom last night instead of seeing if I was all right.

I am proud of myself.  I told my mom this morning when she started with her lecture that I wasn't going to argue with her.  I just finished reading "Leaving Home" by David Celani.  In the book he says that people like my mom can't be reasoned with.  Once their minds are made up they are made up, so there's no point trying.  So when she started, I just didn't react.  I wasn't going to try to change her mind.  I did say some things, when she asked direct questions, but mostly I didn't react.  As my brother pointed out to me last night, my son has been a bargaining chip to my mom, and she has used him against me for ten years.  I have literally been punished for getting pregnant and having a child, and now, all she wants is to change my mind.  I'm not going to.  I'm going to find a new support system, and if that means I never get to see my parents again, that is what will happen.  Celani says that people who are unable to leave home, need to develop a new support system and stop looking to their parents for the support they've never gotten.  So, I'll do that, and in a few days, we'll be out of that house and we can start our new life.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2007, 10:03:35 AM »
CB,

My boss isn't unreasonable, and I'm thinking about some creative choices.  He might be able to come sit in the cafeteria here for the last thirty minutes of the day.  There's a TV out there, and snack machines.  My girlfriend said to contact her church, there might be some solutions there.  There is aftercare available after camps.  And, I think I might be able to just take my lunch late and leave early, but I have to talk to my boss about that one.  Unfortunately, my job does not really have a lot of flexibility as far as working from home, I have to be physically here, although that's something I'd like to change.

I feel pretty good today.  I'm feeling pretty strong.  I think tonight, all of my papers and things are going in my car, just in case.  Because my mother is going to keep trying to get me to stay.  She thinks everybody has turned against her, including my 10 year old, who has no idea what is really going on.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Stormchild

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Re: It's done
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 10:11:47 AM »
Hi tayana

Whew. ((((()))))

I'm glad you posted this conversation, because you will be able to look back at this post if your reserve falters, if she starts 'love bombing' you, if the rest of the family starts pressuring you to change your mind.

Her entire end of the conversation is basically a collection of distortions, attacks, putdowns, and manipulations. Some overt, some covert. There's not a glimmer, not a flicker, of genuine concern for you, not a scrap of concern for your son.

Here's how that conversation could have gone:

You: Mom, I have something I need to tell you. Son and I are moving out, I've found an apartment. The movers will be here on the umpteenth.

Her: You know, I kind of thought this was coming. Why? Why are you doing this?

You: It's time, mom. We're in each others pockets here, all the time, it's too much. Son and I need our own space, I need my own place. I'm a grown woman with a child.

Her: But you need me for childcare don't you? What about his churchgoing and all?

You: Mom, I've been working on those things. We can work it out if you would like to remain involved. I have lately had the sense that it was more of a chore to you than a joy.

Her: Oh goodness. I never meant to come across that way.

You: Mom, it doesn't matter. I need to move out, it's time, it's what kids do when they grow up. They leave their parents' home and start a home of their own. I'm like ten years late with that. I appreciate the help, the shelter, and all of that, but I need to do this now.

Her: I'm not happy about this at all.

You: I know. It's a big change and a loss, but it has to happen. It's time. I've talked to Dad and Brother. They're OK with it and they'll support you too.

Her: Well I don't think I can talk about this any more right now. I love you and Son and I'm going to miss seeing you here...

You: That's OK. We can talk about it more later. Just so you know, I've already got the key and I will be moving things out over the next few days. And when Son and I get settled in, maybe you and Dad could stop by for supper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's what a conversation with a reasonably normal but overly clingy mother might look like. You'll note that there's no abusiveness in it. Compare that to what you got.... and thank your lucky stars you're getting out.

Someone here advised you to get the things you treasure away from there asap. I would second that, now that she knows you are going. You can rent a 5x5 storage space for a month, three months, and fling stuff there to keep it safe if you need to. That way it's not in the trunk of your car, which she can get into if she gets the keys.

For certain sure, get every single piece of financially related paper out of there, as soon as you can. Put a forwarding order on your address now, if possible, so that your bank statements etc. go to the apartment, if it's possible for you to get your mail there. If not, perhaps the apartment main office would be willing to receive your mail for a few weeks. I did that when I was moving out of state and it really helped.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hang in there, tayana. Try, if you can, to think of it like this: you are mourning a death that happened long ago. It's like having a loved one missing in action for a decade, and then their remains are found. You go from being reasonably sure to being absolutely certain. But in your heart, though you hoped, you were prepared to mourn.

(((((( ))))))
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Sela

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Re: It's done
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 10:32:00 AM »
Hi Tanya:

Congratulations on making a calm and clear announcement and for not losing your cool!  You did a great job and now it's over!!  I bet that's a relief?

One thing......

Quote
She thinks everybody has turned against her, including my 10 year old, who has no idea what is really going on.

I imagine she has done a wonderful job of giving you this impression and now you believe this is actually what she thinks.

I bet it's not exactly what she thinks.  I bet it's what she wants you to believe she thinks and what she is trying to get herself to believe.  The truth is.....she can't face the shame of her own behaviour and so she is trying to turn it around......make herself the victim......turn you into the rotten people (you and son) who have all turned against her for no good reason!  She has done not a thing wrong to deserve this horrible treatment (which is what she proclaims.....wants you to believe......is trying to convince herself of.... see how awful you are treating her (you're not moving out for yourself......you're doing it to harm her eh?).  Project the shame and guilt onto you!!  Onto your son!!!!!

Like water off a duck, Tanya, let it run away/slide off.  You have nothing...notta.........to feel guilt or shame over.  Hopefully, you'll find a way to talk about this with your son to help him shed these inappropriate feelings which are also being dumped on him.

She's an expert at manipulation eh?  And projection!

She can't face her own stuff and is trying to shove it at you and your son.   Don't accept that.

Sela

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 10:42:26 AM »
Hey Stormy,

There was a little piece of my mind that just stayed separate through the whole thing, and I was analyzing the conversation.  At one point I said, "This has nothing to do with you.  I want to be closer to work.  I want my son to go to another school so I can try for services again."  She turned that around and basically said, "Well you're getting what you wanted.  You're getting away from me.  That's what this is all about."  I noticed that my decision reflected only on her, and I wondered what I had done to make her hate me so much.

This morning, she gave me another lecture.  Here's a paraphrased version of it.

 
This morning she harangued me about how M's autism will get worse.  Do you know what?  I was reading the psych eval yesterday, and the things the psych had recommended for M.  Groups like boy scouts, being involved with peer tutoring, etc.  All things that require SOCIAL interaction.  He gets none of those things now, and I'm sorry, but going to church and to Sunday school for a couple of hours once a week isn't enough.
 
She told me I'm taking him out of a stable home environment (Yeah, right, can you call this stable?) and I'm going to shove him from pillar to post at camps and latch key and he's just going to get worse.  You know what?  I think he'll get better.  That sort of structured play is exactly what the psych had recommended.  She said older kids would pick on him at school (he's going to be in 5th grade, he'll be the oldest at the school.)  And he needs to learn to deal with bullies, really.  

She said that I think he's all grown up now ( I don't, but I do think he needs something better than this), and that I'm pushing him to grow up before he's ready (He can't even get a glass of water at home without a production).  And that I've spent a week turning him against her because we played some games instead of me watching TV with her.
 
Then she tells me that my dad will want to retired and they are going to move some place far away so they can live cheap and it wouldn't be Warren or Lincoln county.  She also told me they're locked into a lease (they're paying month to month), and they would move as soon as they could.  (In other words, if you're moving, get all your stuff out, and I"m not watching your kid.)
 
And I'm going to be responsible for M regressing even more, and she wondered why he'd been all hung up on dinosaurs this week.  Please note, that when M and I went out to lunch on Saturday, he never once mentioned dinosaurs, although he did talk about tarantulas some.  We talked about moving and what to get for Father's Day.  In the time we were gone he never once mentioned dinosaurs, except in relation to the movie he'd gotten from the library.
 
She also went on about how I'm close to the mall, and there's all sort of stuff that goes on in the mall parking lots.  My complex is across the road, and kids who are doing crime at the mall, probably aren't going to say, "hey let's go over there and see what we can do there."  Criminals just don't work like that.  She said that I would have no yard for the dog.  The dog doesn't play in the yard now.  He goes out to do his business, goes for a long walk and comes back in.  He might run a few circles in the process, but he's pretty much an inside dog.  (More on the dog in a minute)  She then went on about how much stuff I have and how small the apartment is going to be when I have furniture in it.  It's roughly the same size as my living space now.  And how I wouldn't have room for all of my son's toys.  Son and I talked about this and about how we needed to get rid of some things.  Son doesn't play with anything except Legos anyway, or maybe cars on occasion.   At the point that she started going on about this, I was tired of the discussion.  I just didn't reply.

Now, the dog we have, I bought for Son because I had read autistic children related to pets very well.  I thought it would give him one friend he could always depend on.  Since I got the dog, my mom has done nothing but complain.  The dog messed in the floor, she complained.  He sheds, she complains.  He's underfoot, so she complains.  Yesterday, she complained that he'd scratched her tables.  Never once has she said anything about the positive effect the dog has had.  My son and the dog are buds, and when he's home, that dog never leaves my son's side.  She went on a long spiel yesterday about how the dog had scratched her tables and she never got new furniture (not true, my dad would have bought furniture for her) and how she had to clean up dog hair.  Made me feel loved, let me tell you.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

CB123

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Re: It's done
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2007, 10:47:00 AM »
Tayana,

Just an aside--all little boys get obsessed about dinosaurs, at some point!  I'm convinced it's a normal stage of development! 

Why does your mom care if he talks about dinosaurs?  I dont think it's a symptom of autism at all. 

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2007, 10:47:28 AM »
Quote
I bet it's not exactly what she thinks.  I bet it's what she wants you to believe she thinks and what she is trying to get herself to believe.  The truth is.....she can't face the shame of her own behaviour and so she is trying to turn it around......make herself the victim......turn you into the rotten people (you and son) who have all turned against her for no good reason!  She has done not a thing wrong to deserve this horrible treatment (which is what she proclaims.....wants you to believe......is trying to convince herself of.... see how awful you are treating her (you're not moving out for yourself......you're doing it to harm her eh?).  Project the shame and guilt onto you!!  Onto your son!!!!!

She gets one day to show me that she isn't going to take her anger, guilt or whatever out on my son, and if she does, then he won't be staying with her.  

I firmly believe that she think this is a conspiracy against her.  She doesn't want other family members to be together without her present, because she's afraid we'll talk.  I don't know if it's guilt she feels or shame.  I've certainly seen her offer no remorse for the things she's gotten caught in, so I don't think it's guilt.  Shame maybe, but definitely not guilt.  You see, she thinks she is the victim here, so we are the ones wronging her.  We're just doing this to hurt her.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if she doesn't try a suicide attempt, or something equally stupid, just for attention.  If she does, my behind isn't going to the hospital.

She called my work earlier, but I wasn't at my desk.  I didn't call home.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 10:53:23 AM »
CB,

In his case, the interest is a little too restrictive, and that's all he will discuss for periods of time.  OF course, yesterday, he just wanted to be included in the conversation.  He couldn't talk about adult things, so he chose to talk about other things.

I remember when I was his age, and I used to get so angry because I didn't know how to communicate with kids my own age, and the adults wouldn't listen to me.  I had grown up isolated on a farm, like my son has so far, and I didn't have friends.  I can't tell how much of my son's behavior is "autism" and how much is his abnormal upbringing and his grandmother's criticism.

One of things listed in my son's psych eval was that punitive statements shouldn't be used to change behavior.  He needed lots of positive reinforcement.  I was thinking on my way in about his supposed regression, and wondering how much was really from school and how much was from my mother harping and screaming at him everyday after school to get his homework done.  She wouln't let him have a break after school.  She would make him sit down as soon as he got home and start on his homework, and he would have to sit there until it was done.  There were times when she wasn't happy with his handwriting or whatever, and she would take his paper and make him start all over.  Now, in a child who is supposed to be having positive reinforcement, do you really think that sort of treatment was helping him?
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: It's done
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 12:48:43 PM »
dear Tayana,
   As someone said on a post, we, who are objective, can see just how" bad"your mother is.The thing that strikes me in all of this is just what they say in the books on NPD------it is all about them.
 Here you are trying to make a good life for yourself and it becomes all about her----- "hurting 'her, somehow.
  Where did it come to be that your" reasonable actions" like wanting your own place, come to be all about her.
  Someone said that your leaving  is a   kind of death. It is a death of hopes and dreams for your mother daughter relationship. It is a facing of reality  as it is. It is accepting that it will probably not get better. To me, these are the "deaths" that I am going through, also
   You are acting so much more courageously than I am, though.   
    You are 'doing" the Eleanor Roosevelt quote.                     Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

tayana

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Re: It's done
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2007, 01:32:16 PM »
Ami,

I can't pretend to understand her.  I can't pretend that I understand this idea that this is all about her.  The truth is she's never forgiven me for getting pregnant when I was 22.  She was hateful about that.  She's made plenty of biting, punishing comments about how I've shamed her for my mistake.  This whole thing is not about moving.  It's about defiance.  I'm defying her.  I'm saying, what we've got here isn't working, it's time for something new.  She doesn't like that because she always has to be right.  I've managed to get another perspective on the situation, and I see how truly dysfunctional this model is.  I have committed the ultimate sin and I have broken the silence.

It is a sort of death, although I don't think I'm really mourning the loss of the mother/daughter relationship.  We don't really have one.  We have a mockery of that.  I'm mourning that I'm never going to have that, and I'm going to have to find a replacement for that relationship.

Am I courageous?  Maybe.  I know I was certainly scared last night, and I said what I needed to say anyway.  I tried to give voice to my hurt, but it didn't happen.  She wouldn't listen to me.  My voice didn't matter.  I'm probably going to have to undo whatever she's done to my son today.  As my brother pointed out, he's been used against me.  Every time I've tried to break away, she's there to twist that knife.  There was a point a few months ago that I really began to resent my son because I'd never gotten the chance to live.  It wasn't his fault.  But I was projecting my anger onto him.  My mother quickly pointed out that I've yelled at him, and I have.  I'm  not proud of that, but I do know that those moments when he tries my patience most are when she has been ragging on us, and that gets me tense and that tension erupts.  I do not, however spend every conversation with my son, seeing how much I can criticize him. He's got enough problems, he doesn't need criticisms.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: It's done
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2007, 02:03:51 PM »
Dear Tayana,
    I could hear in your voice the sense that maybe it was your fault that she hated you because you got pregnant,brought shame on her etc. Well, you have to remember this----- they hate us because that is who they are. I did everything "by the book". I did everything in the 'traditional" order and she still hated me. I was a kid who would have made any mother proud and she hated me.
  She laughed at me because I wanted to have morals and values. She scorned me for this.
   They hate because that is who they are. You could never have been 'good" enough for her no matter what you did.
   There is no good enough.
   I had to respond to what I felt was"unsaid' in your post                       Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung