New member dealing with my father

[boristfrog]

Hi,
My father has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and has been getting worse recently, so my husband and I are selling our house and moving to a new place with my parents. They have also sold there house and are currently renting a property - this is in a different part of the country to either of us. They have also bought some land, with the aim to build a house on it and run a smallholding.
We expect to be moving in a couple of weeks.

That's the background..

Dealing with my dad about this move has been really hard, and I know it is more than just his illness, so I have been researching online, and reading books. I recently realised that he is a bully and always has been - especially to my mum, causing her to also be a bully at times, as well as have depression.
(This is my personal opinion, as well as my husbands). Today I came across a website about serial bullies which also mentioned NPD - we could say definately "YES" to every item on the list - and the more I have read, the more confidant I am that this is who he is.

I see from reading most people say "get out of there", and this is probably what we should do.

He came up at the weekend and I am too exhausted today to even go into the office at work.

I went online hoping to find strategies to help live with him, so he doesn't make me angry, stressed etc etc, but I haven't found much - I'm going to browse the bit on resources in a moment. I was also hoping to find support - what i feel I have found though, is some relief in understanding what the problem is, and that I haven't been doing anything wrong.

My mum has been standing up to him recently, and he is now talking about divorce.

My real issue is, that although it would be easier to leave him alone (ignoring that I will no longer have a house or job!!! arrgh), he does need help, as he is genuinely not capable of standing on his own two feet at times. (He wobbles).

I don't know how to help him  - he doesn't want help as he refuses to be treated as ill - and yet at the same time tells people that he has a fatal illness that is killing him. However because he won't slow down and accept his illness he probably will kill himself from exhaustion (or accident).

It is doing my head in as it's sooo frustrating.

I'll take any advice on offer right now.
Thanks
B

[mudpuppy]

If your dad has a personality disorder, the worst thing you can do is move onto an isolated piece of property far from your current support system.

There is some profound wisdom in what CB said. They are first and foremost control freaks. Ns always seek to isolate. If it is with people who are supporting or enabling them, they want a closed system in which they are in total control. If it is facing an enemy, they engage in the worst forms of character assassination to isolate and demonize their opponent.

As far as the contact/ no contact decision, I think it is largely determined by the N. If they're mildly repulsive they can sometimes be tolerated. If they are truly disordered and destructive there is no choice but to let them stew in their own juices. The worst thing to do is to allow them to make the decision for you by inducing misplaced guilt, which most of them are champions at. As far as I'm concerned, once a family member becomes abusive, theis behavior should be judged as any outsider's would. If we wouldn't tolerate it in a stranger, why tolerate it in someone who supposedly loves us?

mud

[boristfrog]

Hi CB,
Thanks for the reply. I feel like I have been screaming "don't do it" at myself for the past few weeks, but financially I have to sell my house now, and my job was a short term contract that is just finishing so....
I tried to write the history of the move but I deleted it.
I tried to write answers to your questions, but I deleted them as well.

I've looked over it and the only sensible solution is not to go, only we're going to have to.
Financially we need to move to pay back the debt of decorating and getting ready for sale! Plus my job was only a short contract anyway.

So I guess we're going to have to go and try and raise some money to escape shortly after.

My mum idolises my dad (yup, I get it know - NSupply), but hates the way he oppresses her. I know she needs support - and a break from him day in day out.
I feel a responsibility to help her, but don't know if i can justify us all moving away from him - as he's ill.

Simple answer, if he didn't have CFS, I wouldn't feel any obligation to go.

The idea of going makes me feel really stressed out though. I had to have time off last autumn because I was getting bullied at my last job and I'm still getting over it health wise.

Writing this is kind of answering my own question I know - I just wish it was easier.

NB. we don't have kids - but I would have liked to adopt in the next few years. I'm only 28. H and I have been married 10 years next year and plan to renew our vows then.


thanks mudpuppy.
I've spent so long trying to write this that you've responded as well.
Your line "As far as I'm concerned, once a family member becomes abusive, theis behavior should be judged as any outsider's would" really hits home.
The sensible approach is to stay as far away as possible- which is what my internal fight or flight system is telling me.
I also have to consider my brother, who is just finishing uni and moving back with them, he is 22 and autistic.  If the parents die, we're his legal guardians.

At least we know what Dad is now. that's better than not knowing.

[boristfrog]

Hi CB,
Thanks for getting back, maybe I shouldn't have deleted everything I wrote previously!
Please don't read any tone in to this post as cross towards you - I think I'm just frustrated with the situation. I very much appreciate your help. Thinking this through is important to me.

we are moving because

1. we want to set up a smallholding
2. to be closer to my parents as they are getting older/less able

we had to go overdrawn to get the house ready for sale, and keeping stuff in storage. If we don't sell, we still have to pay the solicitors and the estate agents - and we have no money to do that, and it will be very hard work (don't mind that) to clear all the overdrafts.

we don't want to take any money from my parents - the gifts always come with ties and I have never borrowed from them. We have always been very good with money and this is the first time we have been in 'trouble' - but we knew it was ok to do cos the sale of the house would pay it all back.

Dad is covering the main costs when we get to the new house, but we will be paying our way - one of us will get a job as soon as possible, I don't like being kept by anyone.

If we can find somewhere to rent nearby we will probably do that as soon as we can.

They can't afford to pay someone to look after him really, if we're there we can help my mum out - and if she has this operation she won't be able to help him.
There are no expectations - but if he needs full time care in the near future then we're prepared to do it - and I imagine that it will be extremely hard work - but necessary.

We need to keep an eye on things with my brother. He's a very capable person, but he's going to be there as well - so should be considered.

The thing is they're my parents and they do need the extra hands. even if we get our own place there, we should be nearby.

But I realise that as I write this I'm using words like "should" and "obliged". I know these aren't good. I know being selfish about my own little family (of two plus bunny rabbits) is probably a good thing. Maybe we should emigrate to Canada? It seems like a nice place 

The problem with my dad is the control of everything, and his stupid ideas that don't make any sense, his inability to listen to anyone else's opinion - and when he does just says it's rubbish. Aaargh.

I don't want to put up with him, I really don't, and If we don't sell our house and try to fix our finances here I'm going to have to change my phone number to stop the guilt tripping calls I'll get from both of them. Not that we don't get those already. My mum will suffer for it, I know - she already gets very upset when I stand up to him - cos she has to live with him moaning about it and throwing a strop. On the plus side for me, when he gets mad he won't speak to me for while, on the down side he goes and does stuff behind my back that I disagree with. Aargh,

H's suggestion: i think that we move in with your parents and if that don't work out we emmigrate

It's funny, and I just think it's running away from the problem. But with N people I guess the problem never goes away.

B

[Hopalong]

Hi Boris,
Sounds as though you're carefully negotiating a "gray field" (not a black and white situation or solution) and doing it well. I think you'll be okay. And I think you know enough to be able to set boundaries. Just a first impression...but meanwhile, would you educate me?

Wots a smallholding?

thanks,
Hopalong

[gratitude28]

Hi Boris,
Just wanted to say hello and welcome. CB put out a wonderful banquet for thought... You will need to dig deep to see how much manipulation you can bear...
At any rate, we are all here to listen and you cannot surprise us with anything you write. Likewise, I a m sure tons will empathise with whatever you have to say. If you are worried about writing because of the guilt of putting it in black and white... Well, you are anonymous here.
Take care and keep posting.
Love, Beth

[lighter]

Welcome to the board, Boris:

Sounds like your plate is full.  I hope you find some way to limit the abuse your father heaps on you and your mother.  Does he treat your brother well? 



I have my doubts about your ability to remain stoic in the midst of this chaos.  NPD people are very very very  very  very consistentl and diligent in pushing their agendas, no matter the cost to those around them. 

They eventually wear you down. 

They never change. 

The people around them do. 

Unfortunately. 

[boristfrog]

wow - thanks everyone for your responses

Hopalong - a smallholding is like a mini farm, a small amount of land with a few animals and crops.

It has helped to talk about it here. H and I have been talking about it too, but I woke up this morning and couldn't go to work again - so took a sick day.  I feel stressed out - but we talked it over this morning and H won't put up with any rubbish. He said he is prepared to take any nonesense thrown at him and will stand up to it because he can't stand bullies. He rightly says that just cos what we read online seems to fit him as an N, we don't KNOW for definate. Which is fair and I like to be fair.
I like it when H has a plan and what he said made sense - we stand up to him and if he wants to walk away we let him. We make sure that we pay our rent direct to the landlord so that he can't kick us out of the house. But if we don't want to stay, then we go, but at least we tried and won't ever regret not trying which I think is important.
We look for jobs (started today) in the area and make ourselves as financially stable as we can. Learn skills on the land and we take those with us. Put our money (very small amount) from the house sale into an account we don't even touch - and certainly not give it to him( dad) as has been suggested (yeah right) - so we can earn as much interest as poss, and use it in the future.
H also said if I want to work to get away from the house, he will stay at home and keep an eye on dad.

So I will see how it goes

[Lupita]

From Light words,

When the pain of staying is bigger than the pain of leaving, then we go.

I choose to keep my mother in my life. Not very close. But I am trying very hard to learn how to prevent her to hurt me.

Love to you. God bless you.

Lupita.

[boristfrog]

thanks all
I'm working on it.
I've been off work for 3 days now and every day I feel a bit more me, a bit less fragile in side. I have been painting which I like to think is soup for my soul
I expect to go back tomorrow or I'll be in trouble, but as it's friday the weekend is nearby. I'm hoping the sale of our house will be completed soon, so the not knowing about that will go away.
I'm smiling

[isittoolate]

Welcome (((((((((((((boris))))))))))))))))

and Good Luck

Izzy