Author Topic: Are we mentally ill?  (Read 17149 times)

WRITE

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2007, 06:10:53 PM »
Millions of women live with post-partum depression and don't harm their children!

Millions of people live with mental illness and don't act violently!

This is an unpleasant thread for someone who has a mental illness to read, full of salacious details and maybe fun to engage in a tabloid news kind of way, but confusing issues and making one issue seem dependent on another when it isn't.

We've all 'snapped' and done things like let the baby cry, ignore our better judgement, maybe slap a child, drink too much, sleep with someone we shouldn't have....these are examples of what people do under duress.

I think that people who kill and abuse others are most often more in control than ever- they want rid of a problem and want to use the most expedient means to deal with it with little regard to the sufferign of others.

Nothing anyone has written here makes me feel sympathy with any of the perpetrators for their crimes, whatever their situations. Sympathise with them for being stupid or cruel or having whatever difficulties life has thrown at them- but not for the unfeeling choices they made in how to deal with their problems or the criminal acts they commit.

There's something nasty about this thread, especially the title.







Ami

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2007, 06:18:03 PM »
Dear   WRITE,
   I think that you are saying that mental illness and morality are two different things.I am sorry that this thread was hurtful to you, WRITE.                                                  Love  Ami
   I
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

dandylife

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2007, 07:43:15 PM »
Write,

I had to read your post a couple of times before I got what you were saying! Thanks, YES! I hear you loud and clear.

It is unpleasant to read about, think about, to know that these things take place.

It's also unpleasant to think about all the mental illness that is out there. That someone is struggling with, dealing with, coping with - battling - overcoming? Whatever they are doing - they are LIVING with it. That is something courageous and difficult.

Thanks for chiming in, glad to hear your voice.

Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

Overcomer

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2007, 08:06:17 PM »
Write-I absolutely meant on harm by this thread.  I believe that some would classify depression a form of mental illness-clinical depression.  I have been there and there is no snapping out of it.  I also object when my mom uses gaslighting tactics by saying I am unstable and need counseling.  I am not saying everyone here is mentally ill or that people with mental illness are murderers.  What I am saying that SOME people have P P P and specifically my friend.  Anything that alters the brain
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Overcomer

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2007, 08:10:58 PM »
chemistry makes the person ill-in some way.  My mom thinks I am bipolar.  She thinks I am because I have mood swings.  I have mood swings because I am hormonal.  And what I think happened to my friend was hormonal to the point of snapping.  So Write, please forgive me if I said something that hurt you-I have questions, that is all.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

WRITE

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2007, 08:59:23 PM »
*sigh*

Yes, clinical depression is a mental illness.

There are a number of classifactions of symptoms which are considered mental illness, the models vary between countries, eg. in Europe Personality Disorders have traditionally not been viewed in the same classification or as treatable.

However 'mental illness' is a model, part of the organic medical disease model, a model which is gradually being broken down by a more holistic approach to overall health.

Whether or not symptoms ( such as mood swings or hormonal imbalance ) are classified as illness depends on their pattern and severity.

The best model is one where overall physical emotional and mental wellbeing are taken into account and best practice is the minimum of medication or intervention to acheive or maintain that.

Mental illness is not only a bad thing, like many of the difficulties in life it also imparts empathy, creativity and strength.

I certainly see myself as LIVING with bipolar rather than suffering with it, and I appreciate fully the many gifts having it has brought to my life.

The mental illness and violence connection is not born out in qualitative or quantative studies overall, in fact people with mental illness are many times more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators in situations where it renders them vulnerable.

The only connection between mental illness and morality is the same as any other factor- people do not deserve or receive it as a punishment as was thought in less enlightened times, nor is it any more an excuse for bad behaviour. People with mental illness can and on the whole do take responsibility for managing it and minimising its impact upon others.

Mitigating factors in any criminal case do not over-ride morality or the legality of behaviours.

Post-partum depression can sometimes result in psychosis but it is yet another 'interesting' diagnosis seized upon by the media and alluded to in a small number of high-profile cases when the reality is that most people who suffer with it get through it without being a threat to society or to their child.

The people who are the biggest threats to others are those with strong entitlement, accepting and desensitised ideas about violence, and lack of empathy. Whilst some of these may also have mental illness, and indeed personality disordered people often have more than one diagnosis especially depression or compulsive traits, the high number of people across societies over time who have mental illnesses and do not act violently suggests that is the norm, not the handful of publicised cases which come to mind when a specific illness or circumstance is mentioned.

Even with NPD as many of us know here- we might have had a bad time but we weren't married to Ted Bundy etc.

If we're going to generalise, let's at least generalise to the norm!

***

Enough said, I'm not upset with anyone, just on a bit of a mission with the whole subject, for which I apologise  :)
 

Overcomer

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2007, 09:07:53 PM »
It is all good and I have to admit I was on a roll because I got a hold of a computer so I could just type everything that came to mind-usually I am on my phone which limits me to 500 characters.  I also was thinking about my friend and cannot accept that she is a cold blooded killer!  I want for it to all be a mistake but then her incarcaration is unthinkable!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

WRITE

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2007, 09:17:08 PM »
I want for it to all be a mistake but then her incarcaration is unthinkable!

people have to live with the consequences of their actions Overcomer.
If you truly are her friend then part of it will be helping her see a healthy overall view of what happened, not buying into her denial or projecting your own.

Even if she does/did have mental illness it does not in any way explain or excuse murdering a helpless dependent and trying to cover it up.

There's a lack of honesty sometimes because we don't want to accept the unpleasant fact that sometimes people do evil things, unkind, cruel, selfish things. Because people are sometimes then ill-treated when they have-which is also wrong- it's easy to go the opposite way and try to see things without judgement.

I think it's possible to judge your friend's actions and attitudes without totally writing her off as a person or a friend, though for me the boundary would be clear- does she accept responsibility for her child's death and her own actions, and does she in fact have empathy and remorse for that lost child.

~W

Overcomer

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2007, 09:06:26 AM »
Well another friend who is still close with H says all she talks about is missing J.  She maintains that his death was accidental and that she freaked and the rest of the story is what got her jailed.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

motheroffour

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2007, 04:23:50 PM »
These are all interesting stories. Sometimes I have wondered if I am mentally ill --- what with all the emotional trouble I seem to have.  I guess I prefer to look at it like I am having very normal reactions to very abnormal circumstances.  Anybody could get caught in the web of an N.  And for those of us with abuse issues from early childhood.  Protecting ourselves this way seems quite reasonable to me.

--mof4

isittoolate

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2007, 04:43:42 PM »
I* consider that I have mental issues because of all the traumas in my life, but do not consider myself insane nor mentally healthy


love and affection withheld
beaten by Dad and first man in my life
had illegitimate child and disgraced the family.
car accident--disabled
Daughter married an N
Her N is abusive to me (and her)
N cuts me from their lives
Daughter too weak-willed at the time to do anything.
I found my own N, but didn't know it--4 years of abuse.

That's enough for a lifetime, so I have mental issues.

Izzy

Overcomer

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2007, 05:02:54 PM »
Hey Mother of Four-have not gotten to know you yet but thanks for chiming in.  It worries me that all the pressure and abuse have affected my stability over the years and I do not want to complicate my life with drugs or alcohol or anything else that will take away my objectivity.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

motheroffour

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2007, 05:28:19 PM »
Sorry OC.  Didn't think of those behaviors. I don't drink or use drugs at all so I don't readily think of that.  Just referring to the crazy coping mechinisms that get created -- all the crazy that comes from the crazy-makers.

motheroffour

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2007, 05:34:00 PM »
sorry.  probably sounded like I condone criminal behavior.  I actually wasn't commenting on that stuff.  Just the original question, "Are we mentally ill?" --mof

guest101

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Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2007, 05:49:57 PM »
mentally ill or not, violence arises when one feels that they have little or no other option to effectuate control over their own life.  IMO, those with dysfunctional  parents are more suseptible to becoming violent and/or abusive because of learned behavior and poor modeling coupled w/ feelings of hopelessness, low self-esteem, et cetera.





Does mental illness cause violence?

Mental illness plays no part in the majority of violent crimes committed in our society. The assumption that any and every mental illness carries with it an almost certain potential for violence has been proven wrong in many studies.

There is a relationship between violent behaviour and symptoms which cause the person to feel threatened and/or involve the overriding of personal control. Examples of these criteria include specific symptoms such as command hallucinations and feeling that one's mind is being dominated by outside forces.

Current research shows that people with major mental illness are 2.5 times more likely to be the victims of violence than other members of society. This most often occurs when such factors as poverty, transient lifestyle and substance use are present. Any of these factors make a person with mental illness more vulnerable to assault and the possibility of becoming violent in response.

Who is at risk?

The pattern of violence is remarkably similar whether a person is suffering with a mental illness or not. People with a mental illness, for instance, are no more likely than anyone else to harm strangers. Violent behaviour by anyone is generally aimed at family and friends, rather than strangers, and it happens in the home, not in public.

Typically, spouses, other intimates and other family members are the targets of violence committed by a person with mental illness. Most of this violence is committed by men and directed to women - as is the case in the population as a whole.

Factors affecting violence

The conditions which increase the risk of violence are the same whether a person has a mental illness or not. Throughout our society, alcohol and drug use are the prime contributors to violent behaviour.

Another important factor is a violent background. Individuals suffering from psychosis or neurological impairment who live in a stressful, unpredictable environment with little family or community support may be at increased risk for violent behaviour. The risk for family violence is related to, among other factors, low socioeconomic status, social stress, social isolation, poor self esteem and personality problems.


http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=3-108