My N-mom has disowned me over her granddaughter

[Jacqueline]

My entire life I have spent trying to please my N-mother.  I didn't know she was an N until 2 months ago.  The rest of the time, i thought everything was MY fault.

Ever since i was a child, i had this fantasy that I would name my daughter Mary after my mother (Maria)...to "honor her".  I chose the name b/c it is a name i knew my mother would "approve of".  But for years i only had sons. Son after son.  Finally, i was pg with my long awaited daughter.  I spent my entire pg in a depression b/c my mother was not speaking to me/giving me silent treatment.  Every effort to contact her was met with stone cold silence. 

I foolishly told myself that once my baby was born, my mother would melt and everything would be forgiven/would not matter anymore.  But she did not budge. I almost died giving birth to my daughter and this is the only time my mother decided that I was worth talking to, so she finally extended her great "mercy" and stepped off her royal throne to come visit me.  While lying in the hospital wondering if i would see my baby grow up I suddenly didn't want to name her Mary anymore.  I wanted to name her Jackie after me (just in case anything happened to me).

SO i did.  After i found out i was going to live (hopefully a very long time), i was overcome with GUILT for not naming my daughter Mary.  I told my mother that Mary was my second choice and that perhaps i should have given my daughter this name instead.

In true N fashion, my mother exclaimed, "Oh Jackie is a beautiful name!  She should be named after you".  Soon afterwards, my mother stopped speaking to me again. She was very cold, curt, refused to hold my daughter.  When i asked her what was the matter, she told me "you know what you did!"  I told her i did not mean to hurt her by not naming my daughter Mary after her.  I named her Jackie b/c i was afraid i was going to die and I suddenly wanted my daughter to have a piece of me.

My mother refused to listen. Told me it was all lies, lies, filthy lies. That i did it on purpose to STAB HER IN THE HEART...and now every time she looks at my child it is a painful reminder of how much i have hurt her.  She has refused to speak to me since.

I feel so horrible inside.  I have had nightmares where my daughter is named Mary and not Jackie.  I waffle back and forth on whether to change her name to Mary or not.   I like both names and I would name another daughter Mary if i was ever so fortunate to be blessed with another.  However, THIS baby in my mother's mind was Mary....not another child....for my sweet daughter unwittingly chose my mother's birthday to be born...thus she MUST be Mary.

I know even if i did change the name to Mary Jacqueline it would be TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE to my mother.  She is all about the "show" and I had the priest baptise my daughter Jackie quick before i went into surgery.  So my mother says its too late. God knows her as Jackie and it will never be the same.

I want to change her name for my own sanity....I wonder if i will regret not naming my daughter Mary for the rest of my life....having to hear my mother tell me my entire life how she was "supposed" to be Mary, how I will regret it if she dies tomorrow etc. etc.   At least if i change her name to Mary, i won't have to listen to the crap.

I just want to stop feeling so guilty. I don't want my mother to treat my daughter badly for the rest of her life just b/c i was to stubborn to change the name. 

Does anyone have any advice?

 

[spyralle]

Oh Jacqui I feel so so sad for you.

I have an N mum too and I have lived in that turmoil of never doing the right thing..  never being good enough and beating myself with the guilt stick over and over until I almost drove myself insane.  And really I nearly was insane.. vulnerable and desperate to please so I could just please that fantasy mother...

You see in my experience it is a fantasy and I'll let you into a secret..  Say you were to call your beautiful Jacqui Mary...  SHE WOULD BE THE SAME!!!!  SHE WOULD HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO BEAT YOU WITH...  These N's want to own and control all of you.  Your heart your soul and any other tiny tiny piece of you..  Nothing you do will be good enough..  I'll give you some examples..  I called my daughter Katie..  My N mum wanted her to be called Hayley.  So for a while she simply called her Hayley.  I didn't give in though I was ridden with anguish and guilt... not that my poor child would be confused, but that I was not pleasing my mother..  but even though I didn't change Katies name that was not the end of it..  There was another thing and another thing... 

I could not paint my walls without tormenting myself about whether or not my mother would like the colour. I did not know how to dress because it was not to her satisfaction..  Nothing was to her satisfaction.  I never to this day wear my hair up because she doesn't like it...  I do not know how to put make up on because she would ridicule me for it...  I would change for her over and over again until I was just whirling around and around in a confused and chaotic mess...  She would withold from me and my lovely daughter unitl I gave in and then within a few weeks there would be something else..  I blamed myself for it all of course and she liked it that way...

It is possible to change Jacqui, though it is a hard and painful road as the manipulation goes up and up a notch..  I have had lots of therapy, hung around here and have been through a couple of life changing traumas in the past 7 years which has led me to where I am today.  I build a wall now and behind that wall I try to keep myself and my family grounded and loved and safe.  I still dream of the day that my mother is what a mother should be but a huge part om me knows that it isn't possible for her and I have learned to accept that.  My daughter has just had a baby of her own and my mother is currently not speaking to us which is very very sad but I have finally got to that stage of some sort of acceptance.

I know that horrible gnawing churning feeling inside..  That total inability to make a decision and my heart goes out to you.  But my advice to yu would be that you named yur baby Jacqui after you and that is very very appropriate.  If you change it to Mary now it feels like you are sacrificing yourself and maybe this is the time in your life to stop doing that. My guess is that you found this site for a reason...  The people around here understand.  They will give you support and walk with you.

You say in your post that you want to change Jacqui's name for your own sanity..  I suggest that you DON'T change it for your own sanity.  You don't have to listen to the crap.  You always have the option of walking away, however hard it seems.  This is your baby and you don't have to let your mother treat you or her like crap.  Give your baby all the love you have, protect her and she will only benefit from your strength love and determination..

Keep posting

Lots of love

Spyralle x

[JanetLG]

Jacqueline,

I'm sorry this is causing you so much pain.

Your daughter's name is fine as it is. It's entirely appropriate to name her after you. As Spyralle says, if you *did* change it for your mother's sake, she'd only find something else to criticise, and would never let you forget what you did *first* , *before* you changed it.

Because, to an NMMother, you can do no right in their eyes.

Not 'you can do no right.'

Just 'in their eyes'.

They are the ones with the problem, not you.

Can I ask you a question? What does your daughter's father think about what she should be named?


Keep posting, there are lots of wise people here.

Janet

[Ami]

Dear Jaqueline,
  People have given so much wisdom to this question. I think what it took for them to get to that point of wisdom. They have faced the type of thing that you are facing. You are seeing what your N mother is really like. It is a shock. It is horrible. It is like finding out some deep, dark horrible "secret". Real life just got  mixed with a horror show.
   I agree that the name of your daughter is just one of thousands of "power plays" that you will have with your M.
  After so, so much suffering with my N mother, I think that one lesson that I learned is that you have to be strong. If you are going to deal with her at all, she will only respect strength. She will not "learn" new lessons.However,she can be squelched.That is the best that I can hope for.
   It is like training a dog. You simply have to be the stronger, more dominant one.
   If they sense weakness- you are "lost"(IME)
   I just really faced this.
  Many people here have gone No Contact with their N parents. I have been NC for 6 months. I was able to grow and see things that I would have never seen if I was interacting with er.
IT is just a thought--- for the future.
  As far as the name, you might as well start to own yourself ,now. Now ,is a good time b/c it is a new beginning. Please keep sharing. You are in the right place with people who understand . You are not alone , anymore                            Love  Ami

[Lupita]

Please, visit this website.

It might give you some understanding.

http://www.nevergoodenough.com/

It is living on the edge all the time. It is never good enough. No matter what you do, you are never good enough for the N mother. N mothers do not love us.
Please, do not try to please your N mother. That will set you up for constant disappointment.

[Lupita]

If you had a narcissist for a parent, you lived in a world governed by whim enforced without mercy.

Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves. This is the year, by the way, when children were traditionally thought to reach the age of reason and when first communions (and first confessions) were made.

Having a narcissist for a mother is a lot like living under the supervision of a six-year-old. Narcissists are always pretending, and with a narcissistic mother it's a lot like, "Let's play house. I'll pretend to be the mother and you pretend to be the baby," though, as the baby, you'll be expected to act like a doll (keep smiling, no matter what) and you'll be treated like a doll -- as an inanimate object, as a toy to be manipulated, dressed and undressed, walked around and have words put in your mouth; something that can be broken but not hurt, something that will be dropped and forgotten when when something more interesting comes along. With narcissists, there's also usually a fair element of "playing doctor," as well -- of childish sexual curiosity that may find expression in "seductive" behavior towards the child, such as inappropriate touching of the genitals, or it can also come out as "hypochondriacal" worries about the child's health and/or being most interested and attentive when the child is ill (thus teaching the child that the way to get Mother's kind attention is to get sick). Having a sick child can also be a way for the narcissistic mother to get the sympathetic attention of authority figures, such as doctors and teachers.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html

[Lupita]

. She destroys your relationships. Narcissistic mothers are like tornadoes: wherever they touch down families are torn apart and wounds are inflicted. Unless the father has control over the narcissist and holds the family together, adult siblings in families with narcissistic mothers characteristically have painful relationships. Typically all communication between siblings is superficial and driven by duty, or they may never talk to each other at all. In part, these women foster dissension between their children because they enjoy the control it gives them. If those children don’t communicate except through the mother, she can decide what everyone hears. Narcissists also love the excitement and drama they create by interfering in their children’s lives. Watching people’s lives explode is better than soap operas, especially when you don’t have any empathy for their misery.

 

The narcissist nurtures anger, contempt and envy - the most corrosive emotions - to drive her children apart. While her children are still living at home, any child who stands up to the narcissist guarantees punishment for the rest. In her zest for revenge, the narcissist purposefully turns the siblings’ anger on the dissenter by including everyone in her retaliation. (“I can see that nobody here loves me! Well I’ll just take these Christmas presents back to the store. None of you would want anything I got you anyway!”) The other children, long trained by the narcissist to give in, are furious with the troublemaking child, instead of with the narcissist who actually deserves their anger.

 

The narcissist also uses favoritism and gossip to poison her childrens’ relationships. The scapegoat sees the mother as a creature of caprice and cruelty. As is typical of the privileged, the other children don’t see her unfairness and they excuse her abuses. Indeed, they are often recruited by the narcissist to adopt her contemptuous and entitled attitude towards the scapegoat and with her tacit or explicit permission, will inflict further abuse. The scapegoat predictably responds with fury and equal contempt.  After her children move on with adult lives, the narcissist makes sure to keep each apprised of the doings of the others, passing on the most discreditable and juicy gossip (as always, disguised as “concern”) about the other children, again, in a way that engenders contempt rather than compassion.

 

[bigalspal]

Hi J,
Honey, don't you let that 'you know what' make you unhappy!
You just had a DAUGHTER. A beautiful, precious child.
It IS typical N behavior. All about HER.
Sweetie, let me tell you, she will destroy you. That's what N's are all about.
My mother is an N as well.
She once told me not to hug my girls so much because it would make them "weak".
BULLSH**!!
You love that baby with all your heart. When you look at her, see what You & your husband have created, not what NMother is up to!
You don't want to look back & see what you could've done differently.
Believe me, J, I look back EVERYDAY, & wish I would've been stronger.
We are here to help, & we understand!
Love,
Bigalspal
 

[Certain Hope]

Dear Jacqueline,

Many congratulations on the birth of your daughter!

You've been given so much wise advice here... I only hope that you'll continue to post and allow it to become a fact of your life that
N is impossible to please. N doesn't care about the consequences or the end-result of our attempts to please and pacify... N only thrives on the process of watching us twist ourselves into knots in the process of trying.

Hugs to you and Jackie.

With love,
Hope

[Overcomer]

Oh my Gosh!  I want to scream!  This reminds me of something so stupid that my mom would do as well!  I just want to yell LET THE LADY GO!  But those are my emotions screaming out and I do not know your situation.  My own issues came flooding out.  Love to you!

[motheroffour]

Jac,

I am always amazed when I read a new story!  Even though I have lived with it myself, I am  still amazed. This sounds like so many difficult situations I have found myself in.  Trying to listen to myself (my thoughts, wishes, plans) and feeling them so overshadowed and almost eclipsed by the desires and moral pressures of the N family in my life.  All I can say is, stand firm in what you want to do.  Your voice! Your desires for your new little one!  How can your decision be wrong?  Just because your NM rants or puts on the show of victimization?  SMOKE AND MIRRORS!  I sometimes tell myself to make the decision I would make if all the influence of my N's were not there.  Kinda frees me up to hear myself.  I also ask myself, what would I do or be without that N voice in my head. And I now try to follow whatever bubbles up.  Try to stop myself whenever I see myself scrambling to make N people satisified.

 My mother tried to name my daughter once.  Told everyone what her choice was before we had even announced.  We didn't even act like we noticed.  Just named our daughter what we wanted. So glad I didn't give in.  Feel like I freed myself and my little girl from regret and obligation.

So happy for your new baby! There is something so magical about new baby girls!

--mof4

[Lupita]

Jac, who picked your name? Did you grand mother pick your name or your mother pick your name?
Is there a tradition in your family that the grand mother pick names?
Maybe your grand mother picked your name and now your mom wants to do the same?
I picked the name of my son. My father picked mine. My mom picked the name of my sister.

[Jackie]

Thank you all for your support.

Thank you especially to the person who wrote:  I know that horrible gnawing churning feeling inside..  That total inability to make a decision and my heart goes out to you. 

This is EXACTLY how i feel.  Completely helpless.  I waffle back and forth back and forth every single damn day. My baby is several weeks old now and I cry about naming my own daughter after MYSELF.  I blame myself.  How could I have been so STUPID?  Why did i have to be in such a rush?  I could have avoided this whole mess if i had just named her Mary....why was I so stupid to even tell my mother the names i was thinking of?

There is more to this story.  Prior to naming my daughter, i showed my mother a list of names and asked her which name i should choose.  She told me, "i cannot tell you that."  Then i told her, i was deciding between the names Mary and Jackie.  She said, "Of course i would be honored if you picked Mary" [pause]....there....right there....that's the moment i should have stopped and declared "Alright then, her name is Mary".....but no, mother continued...." but there are so many beautiful names on this list....leave it with me and i will pray on it".

A couple hrs later my mother called and declared my daughters name should be Angelika b/c she is an angel.  So when i told my husband this, he told me to name our daughter Jackie since my mother did not seem to care about Mary or not... (ah ha! you stupid fool.  this was all just my mother being 'humble' and she chose this ridiculous name so we could see how proper of a name Mary was....)

So i went ahead and baptized her Jackie.  As soon as i did it, a dark cloud washed over my mother's face and I was IMMEDIATELY struck by the grave mistake I had just done!  I cried out to my husband, "Oh no! I should have named her Mary!  Jackie is a mistake"....my husband told me, "Just give it some time. Mary is the mistake"

Then my mother started in with the cold shoulder/silent treatment.  I started having nightmares about calling my daughter Mary.  I cried every day.  My husband finally said i should name her Mary IF that's what i think her name is but not just to please my mother.  I don't know if that's what her name is.  If my dd is not Mary then why can't i get that name out of my mind?  What makes it even harder is how everyone (strangers) tell me how wonderful/classic the name Mary is and how Jackie is common/boring. 

I feel so horrible and guilty!  Why could I not have just called her Mary like I was going to?  Would it have been so awful for my mother to parade around and show off her granddaughter?  Who cares what the name is?  But nooooooooooooooooo!  I had to insist on Jackie just in case i died.  My mother has exploited my guilt over this and says i have to "live with what you did" for the rest of my life....and that I am no longer her daughter and she is ashamed to call me that. She said i brought this whole thing on myself b/c i did not honor my mother like the bible says.

I have daydreams where i imagine what it would be like if i had given in and called my daughter Mary instead....well my mother would be happy. She would tell me how PROUD she was and how happy i made her.  She would tell everyone what a wonderful daughter i was.  I would be welcome in my mother's house.....and even though she doesn't make any effort to remember any of her grandchildren on their birthdays, christmas, etc....she would have remembered little Mary. Mary would have been her FAVORITE grandchild....and it would have made her happy which is all i ever wanted to do.  Make my mother happy.   

I weep b/c i chose the other road.  I was selfish and chose myself instead.  I feel so terrible.  I can't even bond with my daughter...its like i need my own mother's PERMISSION to love my own child.  IF she says the name is good then it is good. Otherwise it is wrong/bad.  I can't move on. Its like i'm in a fog and this consumes me everyday.

[Jackie]

For the person who asked:

My mother named me after someone she saw in a movie.  That's it.  She did not name me or my sister after herself (Maria) OR my grandmother (Elizabeth) for that matter.  She had 2 chances, 4 names and not ONE of them was after anyone in my family....but now here is my mother preaching to me about the importance of family and passing on tradition and honoring relatives.  F*cking hypocrite!

So my whole life i had this fantasy of naming my daughter Mary Elizabeth (after her and my GM)....and maybe later, if i had a 2nd daughter i would call that one Sarah Jacqueline.

Well, being told by the surgeon that I might not make it...wondering if i would ever see my little girl get married etc....i suddenly didn't care about the name Mary.  I wanted her to have Jaqueline....somewhere.

My husband wanted the name Evangeline (which means "brings good news") b/c our daughter brings us good luck.  So her full given name was/is

Jacqueline Evangeline Elizabeth X.   Not Mary Elizabeth.  Not Mary Jaqueline.

My mother is upset that she is not Jacqueline Mary Elizabeth.  She is upset that I put Elizabeth 3rd and not First.  She went around asking people if they agreed Elizabeth is a nicer name than Jackie!  She says i insulted my grandmother by throwing in Elizabeth as the third name.  SHe tells me i humiliated her by not giving her Mary even as a second place name.

I was not fond of my husband choice but i wanted him to have a say also.  He did not want ELizabeth in there at all b/c he thinks the name is too long and doesn't flow well with our last name.

Mary Elizabeth flowed well.  Everyone tells me what a BEAUTIFUL name that is.  When i told my MIL i was thinking of changing the name back to Mary Elizabeth, my MIL says, "Oh good. I was not very fond of the name Jackie Evangeline Elizabeth...that's an awkward mouthful"....so now i feel even more confused and stupid.

[Jackie]

PS. to the person who told me i need professional help.... thank you. I have been going to counselling for several months.  My first counsellor (when i was PG) was telling me i should name my dd Mary Elizabeth b/c it would make my mother happy and my daughter could be "the bridge towards peace/reconcilliation".  This was the church counsellor. My mother and i had been estranged for several months and i went then b/c my mother refused to have anything to do with me while i was PG. She refused to come to my baby shower.

When i was told this, i felt like i was sacrificing my daughter on the altar of my mother's approval.  I didn't want to do it.  I was SO ANGRY that my mother would shun me this way.  I thought, "what if i name my daughter Mary and then my little girl asks me why i named her after her grandma that doesn't come to her birthday parties? What will i tell my little girl?"

After she was born, I thought "i never want my girl to feel like she was not good enough for me and my name...so i will give her a piece of me forever"....at the time it sounded like a good thing to me.

Now i have big regrets.  My mother has disowned me for this. I am seeing another counsellor (non religous) who told me that any grandmother who shunns her own child/grandchild over a name is NOT WORTH IT and i should cut off ties.  That my mother is a N - this is how i found out.  I wonder if he is right b/c i have not heard of this before.  Maybe its just mother-blaming?  So many days i wish i had listened to the church lady and named her Mary like she suggested. Then this whole mess would not have happened.