Author Topic: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?  (Read 1304191 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1785 on: September 22, 2010, 09:58:14 AM »
Welcome to 21st century boundaries, Bones! The earbuds were the clue that she was trying to hide behind the force field of her techie stuff and wasn't open to connecting. Sometimes it's a cell phone; sometimes a computer...

ironic, isn't it? That tech is so easily used to (rudely or not) wall out other people and withdraw... and then safely ensconced behind the "wall of tech"... overshare the most silly things to the whole world.

I don't think you pissed her off. You just missed the "sign" she thought should've been obvious that she wanted to be left alone. I've even noticed some people doing this won't even make eye contact. It's as if they want to travel through the world of people and places in their own cone of privacy... like a ghost or zombie: there, physically - but not at all there with the rest of themselves.

It seems to be a phenomenon related to boundaries. I've been observing this for a while. There is an etiquette among techies about f2f interactions while also interacting with the 'puter... and some people are better able to converse while still correctly choosing settings or writing code commands than others. It's not considered rude to hold a finger or a hand in a "wait" gesture... until the computer interaction is completed - even if that takes 10 minutes or more.

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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1786 on: September 22, 2010, 10:06:34 AM »

Welcome to 21st century boundaries, Bones! The earbuds were the clue that she was trying to hide behind the force field of her techie stuff and wasn't open to connecting. Sometimes it's a cell phone; sometimes a computer...

ironic, isn't it? That tech is so easily used to (rudely or not) wall out other people and withdraw... and then safely ensconced behind the "wall of tech"... overshare the most silly things to the whole world.

I don't think you pissed her off. You just missed the "sign" she thought should've been obvious that she wanted to be left alone. I've even noticed some people doing this won't even make eye contact. It's as if they want to travel through the world of people and places in their own cone of privacy... like a ghost or zombie: there, physically - but not at all there with the rest of themselves.

It seems to be a phenomenon related to boundaries. I've been observing this for a while. There is an etiquette among techies about f2f interactions while also interacting with the 'puter... and some people are better able to converse while still correctly choosing settings or writing code commands than others. It's not considered rude to hold a finger or a hand in a "wait" gesture... until the computer interaction is completed - even if that takes 10 minutes or more.



Thanks, PR!

Being an Aspie, I miss stuff like that unless it's spelled out.

At the same time, I didn't want to startle her if she didn't hear me come in.  The police have often emphasized to be VERY aware of your surroundings, ESPECIALLY if you're carrying high-tech stuff like iPods, iPads, cell-phones, Blackberries, etc. because it is so easy for a thief to snatch it out of your hands, or worse, assault you while stealing it!

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sKePTiKal

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1787 on: September 23, 2010, 05:09:42 AM »
Yer welcome!

It's not just Aspie's who have problems with this... recognizing social cues, that is. After all these years, I still haven't figured out how to relax in certain kinds of social situations and approach people in a way that doesn't scare the crap out of them and make me uncomfortable. Especially women; especially the ones who've invested more time & money in self-grooming than I think is worth it, personally. I clean up quite well - it's not that I don't know how or that I haven't developed all the skills I need to navigate new groups of people, professionally... but socially, it doesn't feel like "me" (old, proud tomboy that I am). And it doesn't help that my hubby sticks like a tick to my side trying to coach me, so that I don't embarrass him!

Oddly, it's easier for me to approach and speak with men in my new group of neighbors. I don't bubble over about my grandkids... or feel that my self-worth is edged up by how I've decorated my house, or my secret casserole dish or who does my hair or how I choose to work out... these kinds of women are like on another planet from me. A secret society that I've not been initiated into... and I'm not exactly breaking down the doors to be allowed in, either!!  :D

But maybe that's just my predjudice and bias. Maybe they do think about politics, economics, engineering, design, spirituality, and philosophy and maybe it matters just as much to them. Maybe I'm not giving them a chance...
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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1788 on: September 23, 2010, 07:54:40 AM »
Yer welcome!

It's not just Aspie's who have problems with this... recognizing social cues, that is. After all these years, I still haven't figured out how to relax in certain kinds of social situations and approach people in a way that doesn't scare the crap out of them and make me uncomfortable. Especially women; especially the ones who've invested more time & money in self-grooming than I think is worth it, personally. I clean up quite well - it's not that I don't know how or that I haven't developed all the skills I need to navigate new groups of people, professionally... but socially, it doesn't feel like "me" (old, proud tomboy that I am). And it doesn't help that my hubby sticks like a tick to my side trying to coach me, so that I don't embarrass him!

Oddly, it's easier for me to approach and speak with men in my new group of neighbors. I don't bubble over about my grandkids... or feel that my self-worth is edged up by how I've decorated my house, or my secret casserole dish or who does my hair or how I choose to work out... these kinds of women are like on another planet from me. A secret society that I've not been initiated into... and I'm not exactly breaking down the doors to be allowed in, either!!  :D

But maybe that's just my predjudice and bias. Maybe they do think about politics, economics, engineering, design, spirituality, and philosophy and maybe it matters just as much to them. Maybe I'm not giving them a chance...

I see what you're saying.

At the same time, I'm also concerned about safety issues.  Maybe that's just me.

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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1789 on: September 24, 2010, 07:55:29 AM »
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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1790 on: September 25, 2010, 05:11:18 PM »
Tired.
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1791 on: September 26, 2010, 07:49:37 AM »
The weather's starting to change here... and as per usual, I've come down a sinus-cold, so I'm typing with my tissue box nearby (I got tired of jumping up and down). We moved to the beach in January... so this is my first beach experience of saying "goodbye" to summer. It's sorta sad...the crowds have thinned out and dogs are allowed on the beach again...the pool will be closed next week till spring... and I'm starting to wonder what I'll "do" to occupy myself during what passes for winter here. I keep expecting a gray, dreary season... but that's not accurate here. There will be plenty of sunshine all winter long and while it will be "chilly" on my relative life-experience thermometer, it won't be -25 F, with an added wind chill. I love fall & winter 'coz I can indulge in all my introverted type activities!! Cozy, it is.

I should say: what I WANT to do, because there's always a ready list of already identified "projects" to work on, around here. I think my projects are kinda like the kid in the Peanuts comic strip - Pigpen - it's just a cloud of stuff that follows me around! So, some days, I just ignore the projects...

What do you like to do when it's cozier to stay inside Bones?

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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1792 on: September 26, 2010, 08:40:08 AM »
The weather's starting to change here... and as per usual, I've come down a sinus-cold, so I'm typing with my tissue box nearby (I got tired of jumping up and down). We moved to the beach in January... so this is my first beach experience of saying "goodbye" to summer. It's sorta sad...the crowds have thinned out and dogs are allowed on the beach again...the pool will be closed next week till spring... and I'm starting to wonder what I'll "do" to occupy myself during what passes for winter here. I keep expecting a gray, dreary season... but that's not accurate here. There will be plenty of sunshine all winter long and while it will be "chilly" on my relative life-experience thermometer, it won't be -25 F, with an added wind chill. I love fall & winter 'coz I can indulge in all my introverted type activities!! Cozy, it is.

I should say: what I WANT to do, because there's always a ready list of already identified "projects" to work on, around here. I think my projects are kinda like the kid in the Peanuts comic strip - Pigpen - it's just a cloud of stuff that follows me around! So, some days, I just ignore the projects...

What do you like to do when it's cozier to stay inside Bones?



Hi, PR!

I enjoy crocheting and I'm working on a daisy loom afghan right now.  I also enjoy loom knitting and other needlework.  I've had a "stash" of needlework stuff around the house for YEARS but didn't feel like touching it until this year when the Smithsonian announced their Crochet Coral Reef project and anyone, who wished to, was invited to contribute to their exhibit.  When I realized that the particular museum involved was the same museum where my Dad used to work many, many years ago, I decided to come out of "crochet retirement" and do this in memory of him.  Once I started, "yarn fever" set in and I couldn't stop!

At the same time, it wasn't easy because of experiencing flashbacks of NWomb-donor's abuse but I managed to complete what I started by mentally fighting back against that monster.  (If that makes any sense.)

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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1793 on: September 27, 2010, 11:11:59 AM »
I've also been working with my fellow former classmates to organize a high school reunion.  Dealing with the logistics feels equivalent to organizing a wedding reception!!!!  There's arranging for the venue, trying to get RSVP's from former classmates so we can plan on how much food needs to be ordered and prepared, paying for the room and food, along with other logistics, receiving payments from former classmates and maintaining lists of who has paid along with those who have stated they're coming but have not paid, etc., etc., etc.

Inevitably, the reunion committee encounters a "drama queen" or two.  I get an e-mail asking me "if xe doesn't eat the food, can xe get in for FREE?"  I explained that we still need to PAY FOR THE ROOM where this party will take place so NO, there are no "Freebies".  Apparently, "xe" didn't like being told "No", so "xe" gets the "best buddy" involved and this "best buddy" sends me an e-mail with virtually the IDENTICAL question, "if xe doesn't eat the food, can xe get in for FREE?"

Explained the same thing AGAIN....WE STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE ROOM, therefore the answer is NO, xe cannot get in for FREE because there are NO FREEBIES!

What part of the word "NO" do they NOT UNDERSTAND?!?!?   :?  Sheesh!!!!!!!!

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sKePTiKal

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1794 on: September 28, 2010, 07:28:36 AM »
This "internet" place is getting to be such a small world!!   8)

Have you seen the original TED lecture on the crocheted coral reef? It's given by the artist who started the project you're talking about... and apparently the idea came out of problem-solving a way to visualize mathematical concepts. The cross-over between math & such a "homey" craft got a strand of my own creative juices going again... I don't crochet; MIL does... but I do sew (and all the other artsy stuff that went with my degree). I absolutely love the possibilities that are inherent in any kind of inter-disciplinary venture or crossover/fusing of two seemingly "separate" mediums or disciplines; synthesis, I guess you could say. And piecework, as the UK folks would say, is something I've been doing since I was 6 - embroidery, needlepoint, and hand-sewing techniques (the idea of french seamstresses consistently creating the same stitch length & space between - by hand - has obsessed me since I was small, too). I know during my recovery from trauma... I grabbed an old tool called a "weave it" (a small hand loom about 4"x4") and started out with some heavy crochet cottton; it was extremely calming to do something physically repetitive...

Apparently the "art" of domestic skills like this is contagious. Some of my ideas got scattered to a daughter who is a tattoo artist... who started making quilts... and now she's collaborating with an artist who designs while she sews (tho' she says she's going to teach him to sew and design some of her own). They're young; 30-ish... and of course, they're completely reinventing the quilt imagery to suit themselves. And why not??? I've seen them; they're very fresh, playful and bright & cheery. And she's finally outgrown the starter sewing machine she's had for 10 years...

I also have "issues" that linger from my mom trying to teach me how to sew - a couple of really concrete memories that summed up or symbolized how serious her intent to "control" me was. For a while... I couldn't even bear to start up the machine; do mending... because I knew that in my head, I'd keep hearing the echo of "HERE. You aren't doing it right; I might as well do it myself." Or she'd criticize a creative choice I'd made with one of an infinite variations on the theme: "I wouldn't have done it that way; I would have _________." It really got so bad for me, that I stopped painting... put all the stuff away... and even now - the easel is out & I bought a new taboret and even have a sewing room... and it's like it's all "off limits" or in a bubble and I just don't want to "go there" (maybe from habit?) but part of me DOES...

my neighbor - who was a substitute mom for a while - also taught me sewing techniques (way different from my mom's; I think that's where the french stuff comes from) and it was she who gave me my first sketch book - thinking it would be a private place that I could explore all kinds of ideas without my Nmom's comments; unfortunately it wasn't. HUH...

I think I just tripped over another idea, while blathering on about that... it was another place I "wasn't allowed" to have a boundary. DUH!!
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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1795 on: September 28, 2010, 01:22:46 PM »
This "internet" place is getting to be such a small world!!   8)

Have you seen the original TED lecture on the crocheted coral reef? It's given by the artist who started the project you're talking about... and apparently the idea came out of problem-solving a way to visualize mathematical concepts. The cross-over between math & such a "homey" craft got a strand of my own creative juices going again... I don't crochet; MIL does... but I do sew (and all the other artsy stuff that went with my degree). I absolutely love the possibilities that are inherent in any kind of inter-disciplinary venture or crossover/fusing of two seemingly "separate" mediums or disciplines; synthesis, I guess you could say. And piecework, as the UK folks would say, is something I've been doing since I was 6 - embroidery, needlepoint, and hand-sewing techniques (the idea of french seamstresses consistently creating the same stitch length & space between - by hand - has obsessed me since I was small, too). I know during my recovery from trauma... I grabbed an old tool called a "weave it" (a small hand loom about 4"x4") and started out with some heavy crochet cottton; it was extremely calming to do something physically repetitive...

Apparently the "art" of domestic skills like this is contagious. Some of my ideas got scattered to a daughter who is a tattoo artist... who started making quilts... and now she's collaborating with an artist who designs while she sews (tho' she says she's going to teach him to sew and design some of her own). They're young; 30-ish... and of course, they're completely reinventing the quilt imagery to suit themselves. And why not??? I've seen them; they're very fresh, playful and bright & cheery. And she's finally outgrown the starter sewing machine she's had for 10 years...

I also have "issues" that linger from my mom trying to teach me how to sew - a couple of really concrete memories that summed up or symbolized how serious her intent to "control" me was. For a while... I couldn't even bear to start up the machine; do mending... because I knew that in my head, I'd keep hearing the echo of "HERE. You aren't doing it right; I might as well do it myself." Or she'd criticize a creative choice I'd made with one of an infinite variations on the theme: "I wouldn't have done it that way; I would have _________." It really got so bad for me, that I stopped painting... put all the stuff away... and even now - the easel is out & I bought a new taboret and even have a sewing room... and it's like it's all "off limits" or in a bubble and I just don't want to "go there" (maybe from habit?) but part of me DOES...

my neighbor - who was a substitute mom for a while - also taught me sewing techniques (way different from my mom's; I think that's where the french stuff comes from) and it was she who gave me my first sketch book - thinking it would be a private place that I could explore all kinds of ideas without my Nmom's comments; unfortunately it wasn't. HUH...

I think I just tripped over another idea, while blathering on about that... it was another place I "wasn't allowed" to have a boundary. DUH!!

Oh--h-h-h-h YEAH!!!!  Definitely BOUNDARY ISSUES!!!!!!  There was absolutely NO PEACE around the Royal Narcissistic Queen C*NT as her word was LAW!!!!!  Now when I hear those "old tapes" cranking up again, I respond with "F*CK OFF!!!"  It feels good to be able to do that!!!!

Bones
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SallyingForth

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1796 on: September 28, 2010, 07:07:14 PM »

Oddly, it's easier for me to approach and speak with men in my new group of neighbors. I don't bubble over about my grandkids... or feel that my self-worth is edged up by how I've decorated my house, or my secret casserole dish or who does my hair or how I choose to work out... these kinds of women are like on another planet from me. A secret society that I've not been initiated into... and I'm not exactly breaking down the doors to be allowed in, either!!  :D

But maybe that's just my predjudice and bias. Maybe they do think about politics, economics, engineering, design, spirituality, and philosophy and maybe it matters just as much to them. Maybe I'm not giving them a chance...

I met a great friend on the internet through playing words games. She loves decorating her house for the seasons and secret casserole dishes and she's into fashion. I am not into the decorating but it's a yes to the secret casserole dishes. And fashion, forgetaboutit. We share our recipes. We've met in person this last summer. We're both introverts who love to discuss spirituality, philosophy, politics, economics, design, etc. Although our focus is for the most part spirituality and personal growth, we do talk about some very odd stuff most people would never talk about. That's just us.

I've shared my most horrific memories with her. She's the first and only person I've shared some of these memories with. Even my therapist hasn't heard these memories. She's the person my therapist said would come along in my life and I'd be able to be 100% real with her.

We share over 20 similarities (found so far) including marrying a man from Italian heritage, being the same age, getting married the same year and same time of year, bought our first house at same age, going through our first major stressor at the same age, both love word games, both love cats, and even like the same snack foods. It's simply amazing. We've talked on the phone to each other at least once a week since we first met online in 2006. Our conversations usually last 3 to 5 hours.

Faux pas is our greatest disappointment. We just don't interact with people well. Each other? No problem because we're both introverts.

Who does my hair? Me.  :D  I'll never forget going to the dog park one day after I had cut my hair. One lady there said, 'Your hair looks great. You got it cut.' When I said I did it myself her jaw dropped. She was amazed at how professional it looked.

I remember several women in the nursing school I attended thinking I was stuck up and snobby because my hair looked as if I had it professionally set each week. They were shocked to find I spent less than thirty minutes on my hair each morning before rounds. I've never been into spending a great deal of time dressing up and putting on makeup and getting my hair done.
Sallying Forth
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The real voyage in discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.  Marcel Proust

BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1797 on: September 29, 2010, 05:47:29 AM »
Hi, Sallyingforth!

Good to see you here!

Bones
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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1798 on: September 30, 2010, 07:39:40 AM »
Last night, I had the opportunity to practice "blandness". 

I attended a function in my community and encountered one of my neighbors who happens to be a FLAMING N!!!!  She was ranting and raving about how SHE needs to GET BACK ON THE HOA BOARD because SHE does NOT APPROVE of the Board's decisions!!!!!  (She conveniently forgot that I am very aware of her previous history of (a) NEVER attending Board meetings, on a regular basis, because she was "on vacation",  (I would LOVE to be able to afford to take vacations as frequently as she does), (b) CURSING OUT ANY homeowner, attending the HOA meetings, who DARED disagree with HER ROYAL decrees, and (c) being CAUGHT taking FINANCIAL KICKBACKS, FROM OUR CONDO FEES, when a prior property management company was "taking care" of our development.  (This company has since gone out of business when the legal authorities started investigating them.  Unfortunately, the Teflon NQueen managed to avoid prosecution due to insufficient evidence in a criminal court of law.  The rest of us DID SEE documentation from the now-defunct property management company where they were sending checks, PAYABLE TO HER, without ANY explanation of WHY they were giving her money OUT OF OUR CONDO FEES plus giving HER A REFUND OF HER OWN CONDO FEES!  WTF?!?!?!?)

As she ranted and raved, last night, I just reflected BLAND, BLAND, BLAND, BLAND, BLAND until I was able to grab the opportunity to simply walk away.  URGH!!!!!   :P

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BonesMS

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Re: Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?
« Reply #1799 on: October 01, 2010, 07:15:16 AM »
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