Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
standing up to an N
guest today:
Hi Dawning,
It must be tiring to deal with your mom. Frustrating to care about a person in a very real way and to have a twisted version come back at you. There's no doubt that your mom is hurting you, that she doesn't play fair. From what you say, that is simply the way she is. The way she chooses to be.
What I wonder is how much can we, those of us who deal with Ns in our lives, influence our own outcome. For example, if you change the way you see your mother, you see her the way a stranger would. No emotional ties. Just as another human person. Would the outcome change for you? You mention that she acts in a horrible way, and then sometime later you do some action to make things better. A stranger wouldn't do the action to make things better. They'd take the situation for what it was. If they met a rude, selfish and careless person, they would distance themselves. No trying to fix. No making better. No getting involved. They wouldn't be terribly hurt or angry. It would be one more interaction with a rude person.
I don't know if this is good or bad advice. It's simply a thought process for me. A different way of looking at things.
You acknowledge that you no longer see the value in trying to help her see the light. Yet, you seem to have an emotional reaction when dealing with her.
Ns are odd people. The way that they see the world is different from the way others see it. They don't respect the kind, make it better action. They may like it, but they don't respect it.
I delt with an N father-in-law at one time. (He is no longer living at this time). At first, I responded to him with kindness, concern, caring. It became obvious that he used everyone around him. "Worked" his family to get what he wanted. After a decade of observing this, I finally gave up. Did not care at all what he thought about me. What the rest of the family thought about me. I wasn't mean or cruel or thoughtless. I treated him as a stranger. If he was rude, I ignored him. If he interrupted I continued talking. It didn't matter the situation, I did not treat him in any special way regardless of the situation. The rest of the family was apalled. They could't believe my actions.
As this man, my N father in law grew older, he came to respect me. He eventually learned that he couldn't work me the way he could everyone else in the family. And he didn't try any more. Around me he was far more normal.
Okay. Long story, small point. What if you could not care about how your mom felt? what if you didn't take responsibility for her feelings?
Portia:
Love to all here, including Guest Today (GT?). GT said:
--- Quote ---What if you could not care about how your mom felt?
--- End quote ---
Wouldn’t that be wonderful? I keep trying and I think it is getting easier. And how about: wouldn’t it be great if I could stop myself always looking for that spark of unconditional love from her?
I hated myself for a moment yesterday when I got an email from her. We’d had no contact for 3 weeks so, wondering ‘is she alive?’, I sent a one-liner asking a question. And I got an email back, as usual, totally ignoring my question. It goes along these lines: ‘Hi darling, I’ve done this, been there, with x, he’s fantastic, I’m great, everything is wonderful, talk to you soon…..’. Yep, she’s alive, very much so, away in the sun, visited a town near me (ouch ouch ouch, but not close enough to stop off and visit me??) and – basically couldn’t give a damn. Ouch ouch: where’s that tiny bit of recognition of my existence, let alone the (ha ha) mother-daughter bond? Not there. Never was, never will be.
And although I know what she is, what she’s like, I still feel that ‘ping’ every time I see that lack of love confirmed. Damn it! Why couldn’t she have been much crueller to me so that I could kick her out of my head? I don’t mean that, oh no, I’ve heard enough real horror stories here to wish for that, but you get my drift.
So, yesterday I didn’t feel it for long (which is good! It used to last for days). I looked at my reaction and thought ‘you sap! She’s never going to love you so give it up, deal with it, it’s in your head you silly girl. Go and get love from those who know what it is, stop beating yourself up over getting blood from a stone’. And it worked. Five minutes of ache – I can cope with that. But I’d like to get rid of it completely. I haven’t replied to her email – I don’t know what to say other than ‘that’s nice dear’. Ha ha ha!
Dawning: what can I add? How about:
Please don’t send the letter! Please know that you’ve written it for yourself, not for her. Put it here if you want to (I’d love to read it), but as you say, don’t give her fuel.
“Mother, I realise you think there’s something wrong with me. Thank you for being concerned about me, I appreciate it. But please don’t worry, I am quite alright and I can look after myself. If I do need help with anything, please know that I will ask you. Is that okay? I hope you would do the same with me and tell me if there’s anything I could help you with.” Keep drawing back.
Gosh I just realised we’re around the same age. What does she want your ssn for? Is that ok with you? It’s just, well, she’s still treating you like a dependent daughter who can’t do anything for herself and who doesn’t understand how the world works – and you most definitely are not that person!
Last time my mother tried to pull a daft trick on me I yelled “mother I am 42 years old!”. Bit of a shock to her boyfriend who thought I was about 8 years younger. Ha ha ha ha.
I don’t know Dawning, whether you need to stand up to her or ignore her. I’ve never really stood up squarely to mine. Can’t see the point, we’d just argue, get upset and she would not see my point of view. And I’d be far more upset than her – I’m sure you would be too. We tend to feel, they do not, they react. I haven’t worked it out, but little or no contact seems to work well for a number of people here. I haven’t read anyone saying they stood up and achieved anything (other than separation). And our mothers don’t miss ‘us’ – they miss the supply. Anyone can supply it, we’re not special to them in that respect but we do tend to fool ourselves that we are, coz then we can imagine that we might be loved. What an illusion huh?
Think of your friend’s smirk on that holiday and your mother’s behaviour – those people deserve no part of you, you’re too valuable. Think of those wonderful people who took you in their shop when you were crying. They deserve a long letter more than others….
Your mother’s not in the same reality as you and she never will be. You need to protect and build your reality up, not let her in! It’s not easy. Dr G says somewhere (Little Voice article I think) about N’s being primarily aggressive. That’s a good one to keep in mind at all times. Your mother’s a predator and you’re sometimes the prey. This is another one of my illusions – that’s she’s weaker than me. Rubbish! She’s tough as old boots and I’m an adult abused child. I need to protect me, not her. You too I bet. best....P
Sorry, more:
--- Quote ---She sent a string of terrible emails last month when I mentioned to her a personal, intimate event that made me happy. I wanted to share my happiness with her and, instead, she throws all this rage at me!
--- End quote ---
Interpretation: you're happy (better than her) so she N rages (how dare you be happier than me/without including me) and then she has to make herself better than you to regain ego (there's something wrong with you Dawning...which will make me happier!) ...Step away from this dance floor, it's sick.
--- Quote ---So I pulled back. I remained cool in my responses and didn't get upset even though I had a right to.
--- End quote ---
You have every right to, in the normal, real, thinking world. But that's not her world. Get upset here - not with her. Here is safe - mother is not. Plus, your cousin is not the best person to advise you, however good their intentions: your therapist would be better. Hugs.
Anonymous:
Dawning,
My feedback is to send your mother the short email reply. Don't give her vulnerable information, she will only use it against you. Post your letter here instead.
bunny
Anonymous:
Yeah, I'm with bunny, post it here. But I have to admit I say that not from any mature adult reason. :D I'd just love to read it. :D
CG
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: guest today ---
Okay. Long story, small point.
--- End quote ---
Dear guest today, may I say, "Long story, very good point."
CG
Hi Dawning, a question. If you could imagine all the actions and comments to you from your mum, coming from say, a neighbour or someone at work, how would your letter read then???
Just a thought.
CG
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