Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
standing up to an N
rosencrantz:
Sorry! I just checked the title of this thread. I guess my post was off topic - or was it!?
I keep coming up against the idea that my mother is suffering just as much as I am. In a different way, yet the same. She sees me through the filter of her neglectful mother; I see her as my mother but through the filter of a child's eyes - at age 2, 10, 19 and all the ages in between as the occasion dictates (otherwise I couldn't experience myself as her 'victim').
Is it - ultimately - so very different??? Hmmm - only in terms of insight, I think. She has none. I struggle to 'get there'. She's dangerous to me when she's an angry 2 year old and if I'm open to her (whatever age I'm experiencing her at). So that's when NOT to get involved in attempting to 'reason'. But two people who are 'capable' of being 'grownup' should be able to go the extra mile towards mutual understanding, even when hurting.
Challenging thoughts????
Hugs to all.
R
ellen:
Hi- I just read here that there you guys have never found a benefit for standing up to a N mother. Not that I am in any way done, but I have been in therapy with my mom for over a year (instigated by me). The goal before and during has been to grow as a person in me. When I stand up to her, it was like the responses I've read here, but each time, something shifted, and it still is. She is never going to change, ever. But facing my own frustrations and hidden fears is like peeling this huge onion, and her "cutting" knife of behaviors ironically is helping me get to the core of myself. Its like training as an athlete or something, I just keep growing inside because of it. I do have my own therapist and have seen him for 4 years, so the outside voice and support helps, but she has shifted from a monster to a fuck-up, because I have shifted from internally terrified and defended to a greater sense of strength. It can be helpful, but difficult, but should not be ruled out as an option.
Wildflower:
Hi ellen,
--- Quote ---The goal before and during has been to grow as a person in me. When I stand up to her, it was like the responses I've read here, but each time, something shifted, and it still is. She is never going to change, ever. But facing my own frustrations and hidden fears is like peeling this huge onion, and her "cutting" knife of behaviors ironically is helping me get to the core of myself. Its like training as an athlete or something, I just keep growing inside because of it. I do have my own therapist and have seen him for 4 years, so the outside voice and support helps, but she has shifted from a monster to a fuck-up, because I have shifted from internally terrified and defended to a greater sense of strength. It can be helpful, but difficult, but should not be ruled out as an option.
--- End quote ---
I've had exactly the same kind of experience with my dad. The more I stand up to him, the more foolish he seems (though I think I've finally seen it all, thank goodness).
But I'm just pondering a little here. On this thread, yeah, the advice was to let it go, don't explain. I think that's right because the idea is not to give them any arsenal.
But instead, to stand up to an N, you have to be able to stand firm. Be a pole they blow around and reveal themselves to. Do things because you want to and not in reaction to them - like speaking the truth instead of telling them what they need to hear. Or telling them you don't appreciate their racist/sexist/classist comments. Or reminding them that the world does not, in fact revolve around them (that's a good one :roll: ).
I dunno...just trying to sound this out. It's not a good idea to be vulnerable around an N, but it can be very revealing to be (firmly) yourself in spite of all their attempts to get you to conform to their needs.
Hmmm. Thanks for posting that.
Wildflower
Dawning:
Now I understand what people have talked about when they talk about N's and the aggressive factor. They aggressively kick people around or attempt to. When you are a little kid, it is hard to stand up to that. They are sooooo big. I remember when I was 8 years old on the playground during sports class. There was a game called tug of war where the gym teacher would call two kids in separate lines of teams and each one would grab one end of the rope and pull and try to win the rope from the other one. When it was my turn, I didn't even try, I just let go of the rope. Then, the kids would inevitably make fun of me as kids do. But I had just given up on fighting that aggression. I had an "N Regime" too as Nic wrote so it wasn't just my mother. Then, you start to get older and older and now you are as big as they are. Heh. And the unfairness of it all gets harder and harder to ignore. Maybe I should have titled this thread "Standing up for Oneself".
One other thing.......I see now where even until relatively recently, I let Nists -not only relatives - get the better of me and stifle my self-expression. :x There are a lot of ways to stand up for oneself and I am learning alot and grateful for the ideas, stories, etc.
I haven't sent the letter. Not yet anyway. I like having written it though. :)
~Dawning
Anonymous:
I also have found not to give my NMom any ammunition. Anything that is said or written positively will be reworked to be criticized.
I do know what you mean about being phone retarded. Just speaking with her or telling her how your day is going will be stored and vomited out to my friends/family with a spin on it.
So, while I feel guilty about being out of communication and not letting her into my life, I feel she hasn't earned it.
I do write her letters all the time and let her know how I feel. Keep them in the house a week or two, and then throw it away. It just does feel good to write down the frustrations.
Nowadays got the "guilties" going on. With dad being in a nursing home, he has lost his energy to keep on going. The NMom is pushing all the buttons and the "if you were only closer" buttons you could do this for me.
I want to be around for dad, and then move the NMom to the place she will live until she dies, and then be done with her.
Also feel guilty, this is not the way I envisioned it going down. I was always hoping the NMom would be the one to go first and dad and I could live in the same area. Now I see that dad will be leaving first - and in the midst of all that personal grief, the NMom will use this to her advantage to circle the entire family around her. . . again.
Always considered the possibility of completely cutting her away from me, but didn't want dad to suffer for her actions (tho he may have enabled part of that). I also don't understand what would make a man like him completely be manipulated for years by her.
Maybe it was just easier to be manipulated than to leave her. . . but it did cost him (for some years) a good relationship with his kids.
Just rambling :)
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