Need a normalcy check - please help!

[Iphi]

towrite - how horrible, really horrible.  I wish that you had called the police on your brother and pressed charges. 

finding peace - here's another vote for not normal.  So totally wacked.

I had a dream where figures like your men came into the dream.  I'll share with you what I figured out about them.  In my dream is was a young man with a red strip of cloth tied around his forehead and a young woman who was wearing this metal falcon (like, uhhh, sculpture thing) on her forehead - sort of like a crown that has a falcon on the front.  Anyway.  I figured out that the woman symbolized discernment. The falcon was for razor-sharp vision that can see the truth.  The young man symbolized courage, a person who will not shrink from the truth or doing what has to be done. 

I decided that the people in my dream were qualities I needed to cultivate, or aspects of myself that would be important.

If the guy who wrote that on the wall and apologized is an aspect of you that you have made peace with....?  What aspect might he be?  And I see the graffiti as self-hatred that has been repaired, but with complicated feelings around it?  Was there anything about the guys that gives a clue about what aspects or qualities they might mean (like my bird and red cord?)

[Hopalong]

Dear FP,
What a magnificent gift of a dream.

I believe the 3 good strong kind men could be messages from the father within you. Your own inner father-self, who can love and protect you. (Nothing to do with the cruel reality-father.)

I think the one who apologized could be a greeting from the spiritual side of your self's inner father, who understands about processes like being accountable, feeling regret, and asking for forgiveness and reconciliation. (I'm not referring to any particular religion, just that these are spiritual values, imo.)

Really, that is an extraordinary dream. I'm happy you had it. I'm sorry about the ending, but it doesn't devalue any of the rest....it just showed the tension between the deep real good and the surface struggle.

love to you,
Hops

[finding peace]

The pieces are coming together:

The 3 men are serenity, courage, and wisdom – from the serenity prayer.  I have always identified with that prayer. 

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can
And the Wisdom to know the difference

They represent three pieces of me that I once had, but were split off.  They are still there – but aren’t fully integrated yet.  Together, and as males, they represent the fourth component – strength and (yes – Hops very, very much) a spiritual father figure of comfort and protection that I never had in real life.

Iphi - I had not thought that the graffiti was self-hatred.  But you are right the house represented my past and me – there is definitely a component of self-hatred.  Wisdom apologized for painting the graffiti.  I initially thought that Wisdom did this before he became wisdom – but he didn’t.  He was very wise, even then.  I was so, so angry as a child, but because I was so terrified of that anger (and what would be done to me if I dared to express it) I converted it into self-hatred and I did it very, very well.  It was easier to live in that house hating myself rather than my family.  Then I acted out in many ways to fulfill that self-hatred – which caused others and myself a lot of pain.

The apology from wisdom: 

being accountable, feeling regret, and asking for forgiveness and reconciliation

I need to forgive myself as much as I need to forgive my family, probably more so. I always applied the serenity prayer to circumstances outside myself – never inward.

The call from my father even though it threw me into another panic attack, was good.  It was a reminder of why it was so essential that as a child I allowed the self-hatred and buried the anger.  It also told me what is preventing me from fully re-integrating wisdom, serenity, and courage - my fear of anger (my own and other’s) and my inability to accept myself.

My head is spinning.

Thank you all so much – you have all made such a profound impact on my life – in this thread alone – I cannot thank you all enough. 

Peace 

[Ami]

Dear Peace,
  I wanted to give some ideas about your dream. I don't know how to cut and paste the little snippets so I will just write them.
  You are sitting on the hill alone away from the town( regular life with regular people--- laughing and talking. You do not live a regular life with regular people. You live an 'irregular "or 'abused" life. Far away is the fair. This is your dreams and hopes for a "good life--- ferris wheels and happy situations-- but they are far away..
  In a dream a house is "you".You are moving( in a transition in your life). You are afraid or terrified of transition( the hill turns in to a cliff).
  It hit me that the three men could ,also, be the board
    The room with the profanity on the wall represents your fathers' violation of you. It is big, red and ugly. Your F does not want you to "erase" his violations . He tries to stop you,but you swear back at him and hang up.You put him AND his violations BEHIND you. You slam the phone down on them.
    I see it as a really positive dream. Whatever does not seem right--- throw away.
   I am so, so sorry that a dear person like you had to suffer so much, Peace.            Love  Ami

[Ami]

Dear towrite,
   That is so, so ,so horrible. You have been brainwashed and programmed to have NO value for yourself. it is PITIFUL. I HATE THEM. I REALLY HATE them. Sometimes, I am really, really glad that there is a Hell.                                                   You are in my prayers-- you very precious person       Ami

[isittoolate]

Normal people feel alive but content, are friendly but enjoy being alone, are patient but cannot be pushed around, feel sad but not depressed, and they have a sustainable quiet mind.

They are incapable of violence unless in self-defense. They have a relaxed posture, fall asleep more easily, and have a lighter but restful sleep. They work efficiently and seek pleasure when not at work. Short-term memory and concentration are improved. I.Q's can soar.

Childhood memories may return, but without the painful emotions attached. Anger when triggered will still be mixed with anger from the past, and it will be necessary to continue redirecting anger indefinitely. Anger will be mild and related more and more to current interactions. Even when your anger is entirely about the current interaction, feel and express it privately, and then confront calmly if appropriate. If you suppress anger, neural pathways can become clogged up again, and symptoms may re-occur.

Wel!!!! when I read this I wondered if I am normal and everyone else I know is nuts! The above describes me a lot. We ought to be careful about what we read and believe!!!


xx
Izzy

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[Certain Hope]

Iz,

What about the itch?

Love,
Hope

[finding peace]

Hi Ami

So much of what you wrote is so true.  Did you study dream interpretations?

You are sitting on the hill alone away from the town( regular life with regular people--- laughing and talking. You do not live a regular life with regular people. You live an 'irregular "or 'abused" life. Far away is the fair. This is your dreams and hopes for a "good life--- ferris wheels and happy situations-- but they are far away..
In a dream a house is "you".You are moving( in a transition in your life). You are afraid or terrified of transition( the hill turns in to a cliff).

Yes!

It hit me that the three men could ,also, be the board

I thought that at first too, but I got the sense that it was more the board that triggered the dream.  The right words were written and something clicked.

The room with the profanity on the wall represents your fathers' violation of you. It is big, red and ugly.

Yes - it does, and it also represents my betrayal of myself.

He tries to stop you,but you swear back at him and hang up.You put him AND his violations BEHIND you. You slam the phone down on them.

Yes - I did it - the only problem was the fear I felt at doing it.  It was so bad that when I woke up I had to remember that he has been dead for 2 years and that he couldn't hurt me anymore.  Such a sense of relief.  So I think that it represents the start of "shutting him out" - and that to really put it behind me I need to get over this fear of anger (my own and his). 

I woke up with such a sense of peace this am. 

((((Thanks also for the very kind words!!)))))

Peace

[finding peace]

Hey Janet

You are not rambling, you are putting the pieces of the jig-saw together.

Yes - I am putting it together.  I had to laugh at myself.  When I read what you wrote I got a picture in my mind of me as a jig-saw puzzle with all of the pieces put together, but put together wrong (as though a 5yo tried to put the pieces together, got tired, and started jamming any piece together that would fit).  That puzzle looked really odd - but beautiful in its own way.  Now to sort it all out.

(((Janet)))

[Certain Hope]

When I read what you wrote I got a picture in my mind of me as a jig-saw puzzle with all of the pieces put together, but put together wrong (as though a 5yo tried to put the pieces together, got tired, and started jamming any piece together that would fit).  That puzzle looked really odd - but beautiful in its own way.  Now to sort it all out.

I can relate to that picture!!

Hugs all around,

Hope

[finding peace]

"Normal people feel alive but content, are friendly but enjoy being alone, are patient but cannot be pushed around, feel sad but not depressed, and they have a sustainable quiet mind.

They are incapable of violence unless in self-defense. They have a relaxed posture, fall asleep more easily, and have a lighter but restful sleep. They work efficiently and seek pleasure when not at work. Short-term memory and concentration are improved. I.Q's can soar.

Childhood memories may return, but without the painful emotions attached. Anger when triggered will still be mixed with anger from the past, and it will be necessary to continue redirecting anger indefinitely. Anger will be mild and related more and more to current interactions. Even when your anger is entirely about the current interaction, feel and express it privately, and then confront calmly if appropriate. If you suppress anger, neural pathways can become clogged up again, and symptoms may re-occur.

Wel!!!! when I read this I wondered if I am normal and everyone else I know is nuts! The above describes me a lot. We ought to be careful about what we read and believe!!!


xx
Izzy

Well Iz - According to the above, my family was definitely abnormal.     

   Me too  (although I already knew that  ).  The only parts that fit for me were:

enjoy being alone, are patient but cannot be pushed around, they are incapable of violence unless in self-defense, and feel [anger] and express it privately, and then confront calmly if appropriate.

To be honest - for the calmness about anger - only if my family isn't involved

((((Thanks Izzy))))

[finding peace]

(((((((((((((((Many hugs to you Certain Hope))))))))))))))

[Ami]

I am going to say something very ,very controversial,.then, I am going to go out and get off the computer.
   There are some people who are facing their issues without any 'medication" that "mutes' or "diminishes" or even takes away the pain. Other people who are choosing to take medication may not  feel the same intensity of pain-- so it is really not "fair" to compare the two groups of people,as far as "getting over it"
  I am ready-- throw virtual apples and oranges-- -- at me . I am hiding in an undisclosed location.
    Ami

P.S.  I am not 'judging" the medication-- just the 'comparison " with others  who are not being medicated with reference to emotions. 

[Certain Hope]

I am going to say something very ,very controversial,.then, I am going to go out and get off the computer.
   There are some people who are facing their issues without any 'medication" that "mutes' or "diminishes" or even takes away the pain. Other people who are choosing to take medication may not  feel the same intensity of pain-- so it is really not "fair" to compare the two groups of people,as far as "getting over it"
  I am ready-- throw virtual apples and oranges-- -- at me . I am hiding in an undisclosed location.
    Ami

P.S.  I am not 'judging" the medication-- just the 'comparison " with others  who are not being medicated with reference to emotions. 

I'm going to say something very forthright. Ami, I don't know what or whom you're referencing with your remarks here, and I don't want to know.

Neither do I know who is choosing to take medication, or why, and I don't believe that's any of my business.

For myself, I do not take medication and that's no badge of courage for me. We have been without medical insurance for most of the past 4 years.
Again, for myself, I hope that anyone who is choosing to take medication does not feel "out of the loop" when it comes to commenting on my progress, or lack of it, or anything else on which they see fit to share.
And finally, for myself, I never want this to become an "us" vs "them" arrangement. I appreciate you all.

Thank you.

Hope

[towrite]

To Iphi and FP - I wish I could have called the police. I couldn't for 2 reasons: 1) my parents never told me my brother did it. I only found out about 5 years ago from my younger brother who was there and saw my middle brother do it.  2) my parents were so socially well-connected that a police report would have had alarming repercussions, mostly to me - i.e., I wouldn't have been believed and my parents would have punished me for making the "secret" public.

And FP - are you still questioning the ID of the 3 men? I've had some experience in dream analysis, but it's only steps for you to follow to interpret your own dream. It is not an interpretation from me. I use it all the time and find it answers questions. If you want to know more, all you have to do is ask. I don't want to impose.

towrite