Author Topic: Causes of Shyness  (Read 6138 times)

teartracks

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2007, 06:59:15 PM »

Hi Iz,

What I meant was that one of the still photos I carried in my mind all my life  documented the day my sense of agency, that Dr. G. talks about as vital for a child to develope with a healthy sense of self, was taken from me by a bully Nparent.  From that moment on, I was full of anxiety and fear.   I was shy.

tt

isittoolate

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 07:16:49 PM »
hi tt

Oh I thought maybe you had been sexually assaulted--- God Forbid!

Are you shy now?

What part are you working on?

such as, I am working on uncovering my feelings.

Love
Izzy

teartracks

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2007, 07:31:05 PM »



Hi Iz,

I still have Generalized Anxiety Disorder.  I'm rather reclusive.  Don't like crowds or frau frau anything (well maybe exquisite food occasionally).  I love people.  I'm not a cynic.  I'm still optimistic in my generl outlook.
Still introverted. 

What am I working on?  I think I'm working on accentuating and giving to others the good positive things I know myself to be.  I'm working on walking into eternity with the peace of God in my heart.

tt

isittoolate

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2007, 07:39:28 PM »
tt

do oyu have meds for GAD?

I have Lyrica

Certain Hope

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2007, 08:31:12 PM »

Maybe I should have barfed all over my parents  :lol: .  But I always "behaved".  I have a baby picture from when I was one year old.  My mother is sitting on the floor laughing hysterically and I am next to her with my face twisted up into a hideous scowl.  That was the face I made any time anyone, friend or stranger, said, "Isn't she cute?" to me.  So, my mother had said it in order to get a picture of this face I would make.  I guess I was pretty uncomfortable with any kind of attention, even positive attention, from a very early age.

Hope, this research is very, very interesting.  Especially the cultural differences.  That makes it seem to me that shyness must be learned, at least partly.  I think my shyness is from fear.  It may have started out as a personality quirk, but I didn't get to fully outgrow it before I got shamed and ridiculed back into my shell.

My youngest son had a friend in high school who was painfully shy and quiet.  Her parents were quite worried about her.  But they let her do her own thing and over time she came out of her shell.  She is still soft-spoken but has self-confidence and many friends.  She started out as a smart little girl who would barely speak and ended up as a cheerleader and Jr. Miss contestant by senior year.  Now she has a nursing degree and is working as a nurse and living on her own at the age of 21.  Her parents just let her be and supported her as she grew and found her voice.

Pennyplant

Penny,

Do you think that you understood the meaning of the "Isn't she cute?" at one year?  I'm imagining maybe it was the tone of voice in which it'd be said... the condescension... or maybe more than the tone of the speaker it was the reaction you saw on your mother's face whenever someone would comment on your.... you-know-what-ness.  ?? maybe?  Wow, you were tuned in. I guess we all were tuned in... long before we had words to express our views.
I always behaved, too. A good little conformist... well, almost always.

The cultural research intrigued me, too. Any "praise" (if there was any) was greatly overshadowed by the unspoken, but crystal clear, expectation for me of perfection... and always, always, I was certain that I'd be nothing without my mother. No doubt that's why one of my clearest memories of young childhood is a terrible fear that she'd die.

Your son's friend.... I read that part three times, thinking... how could she just miraculously turn out so well-adjusted and confident? And finally I saw the key ingredient:  Her parents were quite worried about her.   That concern makes all the difference.

Hugs, Penny... thank you.

Love,
Hope





Certain Hope

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2007, 08:57:03 PM »
Dear Izzy,

Are you feeling angry?   I am... and it's a waste of energy, I think.

This is where thinking comes in handy, I "think"... some things are simply not worth the expense of breathe, ink, electricity, postage, whatever.  I keep thinking, "In your anger, sin not."  So... anger's not the issue, it's the disposing of it which can get tacky.

Thank you for the reminder about good points. I do believe that I have some, too :)
Without fear as the motivation, all that's left is love. For the sake of love... I'll let the anger go.

Dear tt,

I'm sorry. I don't know what happened to you at 2 1/2...  your sense of agency... I had to look that up and read about it.
Also, I read Dr. G's essay again... I'd forgotten.
Will be reading more, too... because I think there's more I can do to give my own children a strengthened sense of agency.
It is apparently not a thing frozen in time, but cumulative.

And I like your goal... to walk into eternity with the peace of God in your heart.

When I feel contentious, there's no peace... and then I remember - only by pride comes contention.
Then I stick my head under some cold running water in the kitchen sink and try to snap out of it.
Works every time.

Love,
Hope

pennyplant

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2007, 09:04:09 PM »
I think it was because attention was being focused on me.  My mother always referred to "the little old ladies" who would say this to me in stores or on the street and then get that face in return.  So, they were people I didn't know and they were probably getting very close to me.  One time I did let a newspaper photographer take a picture of me in my stroller.  That picture was in the paper with the caption, "Cute!"  And I wasn't making that face!  It was around the same age.

I do remember being a little older and having a friend of my mother's notice me and when I got shy, she said, "Oh, she's shy" and that made me feel even more embarrassed.  So, by then I understood what people were saying and seem to have perceived it as criticism or maybe just something not good.  It sounds like my nature was at the least very sensitive.  I will have to do some reading on that after all.  It seems to be an important part of who I am.

Yeah, my parents never worried about me in a helpful way.  It was more like, what is wrong with you that such and such is not happening (not popular, not having any dates, etc.)?  My father worried that I was too much like him and he always thought something was wrong with him (much later he discovered Asperger's Syndrome and felt that diagnosis fit him and explained a lot about his life.)  I know now he was worried because he wanted me to have a better life than he did, be happier.  But when he told me he was worried I was too much like him, I just felt even crappier.

Ah, sometimes I just want to leave it all behind.  I get tense trying to figure it all out.  That is part of my nature as the Individualist.  Too much thinking and internal focus.  I want to keep my nature but balance things out a little better is all.

((((((((Good night all))))))))))))

Love, PP
"We all shine on, like the moon, and the stars, and the sun."
John Lennon

isittoolate

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2007, 09:36:08 PM »
Hi Hope,

I have some vague anger at that guy who phoned me, but I think I've finally stopped his 'lording things over me". I hated that!

Otherwise I am okay, as things go  Got 4 feelings now!!  :lol: COUNT THEM...... Four

I was emailed the Minutes to upload to the Website but was busy here, then suddenly remembered I cannot upload August Minutesd until Sept meeting when they are approved, so a quick email back and no work today.

I grocery-shopped, to replenish what Sis and Bro ate and wound around Black Mountain for a long time trying to bypass the construction to get where I was going. Reminded me of when the 'kids' where here and I was looking for Field St--but was interrupted by construction--- and Bro asked me if I was lost. I said, "Yes. I'm lost but I know where I am:lol: meaning one of four directions would find my street.

Also just finished my laundry! Can you fold a fitted bedsheet while sittting and folding it 'in the air'?    :lol:  :lol:

We must always remember our good ponts!!


and Hi PP


Other people, I think, ought not point out a child's shyness within the child's hearing range. It sounds like something bad and makes shyness worse........
--or any other thing such as my daughter had a raspberry birthmark on her lip, shoulder and butt cheelk. I made immediate signals if anyone was going to say anything and she was never embarrassed about it.

Dr. said it ought to fade by age 5 and I thought that would be ok, re kindergarten. it worled. All gone and no plastic surgery.

Love
Izzy

[attachment deleted by admin]

Certain Hope

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2007, 10:09:05 PM »
Izzy  :D   As I recall, the expert said there are just 4 basic feelings... and all the rest are learned responses, so....

you have arrived, my dear!!  8)

You mean I am sposed to fold those fitted sheets and not just roll them into a semi rectangular blob?  :o

I would think you were amazing even if you didn't have such folding talent! :)  And it sounds like you have had a most productive day!

My brain is firing on only 3 cylinders, but tomorrow's a fresh beginning... thank God. I am about to fold... up.

As Pp said ( Hi, Pp :) )  balance is the goal and I have dug a bit too far, too fast, I think. Dreaded this shyness thing... still dreading the "highly sensitive" thing... and my dread cells are worn to a frazzle. I think that if my feelings agree, I'm about ready to lay the past for rest and focus on the now. The less shy, slightly less sensitive, far more aware... now.

Yeah, sounds good :)

Love,
Hope

teartracks

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2007, 11:33:13 PM »


Hi Ladies,

Here are a couple of Dr. G's articles.  I'm as big a fan today as I was the first time I read them. 

Introduction

Introduction"If I asked you what children need in order to be psychologically healthy, you would probably answer: love and attention.  Of course, you would be right--love and attention are essential for every child.  But, there is a third  psychological need critical to the emotional well-being of children: "voice."
What is "voice"?  It is the sense of agency that makes a child confident that he or she will be heard, and that he or she will positively impact his or her environment.  With this sense of agency comes the implicit belief that one's core has value.  Exceptional parents grant a child a voice equal to theirs the day that child is born. And they respect that voice as much as they respect their own.  How does a parent provide this gift?  By following three "rules:"

Assume that what your child has to say about the world is just as important as what you have to say. 
Assume that you can learn as much from them as they can from you. 
Enter their world through play, activities, discussions: don't require them to enter yours in order to make contact."       (From Giving Your Child Voice)
Did you receive "voice" as a child?  Were the important people around you, your spouse/partner/boyfriend/girlfriend, children, parents given this gift?  If not, you or those closest to you may be locked in a battle for emotional survival without knowing it.  Voicelessness takes many forms:  relationship problems, depression, anxiety, over and under-achieving, narcissism, addictions, etc.  All represent self-defeating or failed attempts to solve an unsolvable problem:  needing one's very essence to be seen, heard, and appreciated by people incapable of doing this. 

I have appreciated the many comments I have received. I look forward to hearing from you.


Little Voices
(Prior version excerpted in a guest column at The Natural Child Project)




If parents do not enter a young child's world, but instead require him or her to enter theirs to make contact, the resulting damage can last a lifetime. In "Voicelessness: Narcissism," I presented one way adults react having experienced this scenario in childhood: they constantly try to re-inflate their leaky "self." However, different temperaments spawn different adjustments: some children, by their very nature, are incapable of aggressively seeking attention. If no one is entering their world, they unconsciously employ a different strategy. They diminish their voice, make as few demands as possible, and bend themselves like a pretzel to fit their parents world.   

To secure their place in the family, these children often become expert in intuiting their parents' feelings and moods and automatically responding in ways they deem helpful.  In effect, they become good parents to their own parents.

What happens when these children enter adulthood?  Depending on personality and history, there are different possibilities.   Here are two:

Some become gentle, sensitive, and non-assuming adults. They are also generous and caring, often volunteering for charitable organizations, animal shelters, and the like. Frequently they feel other people's pain as if it were their own, and are racked by guilt if they cannot somehow relieve this distress.  Many seem to tiptoe in and out of rooms.   Unfortunately these qualities also allow them to be used and abused by other people, for they are unable to stop giving without feeling they are bad or unworthy.  Having a secure "place"  and providing for others' emotional needs are inextricably woven together.  If they are not providing, they feel they are no longer part of anyone's world, and they have no value to anyone.  Their self-esteem is completely dependent upon responding to others needs.  In extreme cases, their "voicelessness" is so complete, so consuming, these "little voices" literally are silent for long periods of time.  This is not a form of passive aggressive behavior (as has often been suggested) or even a retreat from relationships.  Unless asked direct questions, they simply can't think of anything to say.  "What do you want?" (now, this week, this year, during your lifetime) is impossible for them to answer.  Early in their childhood they stopped wanting because no one paid any attention to their wishes.  Their place in life was to know what everyone else  wanted--this is the only place they felt comfortable and unthreatened. 

Other "little voices" ultimately become aware that they have sacrificed their independence, their "voice," in bending around others, and become negative and bitter.   They are exceptionally sensitive to what they perceive as the non-responsiveness of people around them--precisely because they compare their own generous nature to the words and actions of others.  Almost everyone comes up short.  As a result, they are viewed by others as "critical" and difficult to get along with.   They are easily slighted and prone to angry outbursts.  The theme of their anger is often:  look  what I've done for you, and look what I get back.  And yet they are trapped, because if they stop anticipating everyone's needs they feel invisible.   Sometimes, these "little voices" live with (or close to) their demanding and unappreciative parents until the parents die; they deeply resent siblings who managed to escape.   

"Little voices" are the polar opposites of narcissists.  The former relinquishes all "voice," while the latter gobbles it up.  When the two are matched in a relationship, the potential for physical and emotional abuse is high.  Domestic violence cases often involve "little voices" and "narcissists."   Yet, the under-entitlement of "little voices" and over-entitlement of narcissists are both methods of adapting to the same phenomenon:  childhood "voicelessness."   Interestingly,  the same voice-depriving family can produce "little voices" and "narcissists."  Why is this so?  Genetic factors probably play the biggest role.  Narcissism requires aggression, "little voice," passivity.  Birth order may also count: if one child strives aggressively for family resources, it is that much harder for the next in line to compete using a similar method. 

In this essay, I have talked about extreme cases of "little voice."  But in fact, many of the people who come to see me share, at least to some extent, the experience of "little voice."  They have unconsciously diminished their presence in order to find a niche in their family and a place in the world.  To be seen and heard, they feel they must take care of, or bend around, others.  Luckily, "little voices" can be helped.  The healing process requires a therapist who understands the historical roots of the problem and is capable of developing a client's "voice" through a genuine, empathic relationship.

changing

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2007, 12:14:09 AM »
My Dear Hope-

I am sad about the hurt that you have suffered. Whatever your residual pain, you are a very dear, friendly , sharing and encouraging person. Your interest in others comes through in your posts- despite any shyness, you have emerged a loving, and lovable creature!!! Anyone who does not treasure your special qualities is missing out, big time!!!

Love to you!!

Changing

isittoolate

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2007, 02:10:56 AM »
Hiya Hope,
I DITTO changing, you come across, as she says, and almost as though you don't have a care in the world. Yet we all do. I lean into frivolity when I don't know what to say.
so I have arrived. I meant FOUR times but now I must categorize which feeling was when..................always working!

AH! The fitted sheets--whatever you choose,my dear!

Yep! Think more on the shyness thing. I am not shy now, only about dying--who will see me without my makeup?


Thanks TT

I so much believe that I never had a voice, as a little child, but if I had had one, I would have "mauled a few people" on my way up.

I am just getting my voice now and that is my assertiveness that is setting me free from people who had 'bound and gagged' me. I made a really good move, as I specified on my Assertive thread, and being I have known this man since I was 28 (40 years) this is the first I feel free of him. The FIRST! because I used my voice!

Voiceless no more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love Izzy

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« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 02:13:20 AM by isittoolate »

finding peace

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2007, 04:07:41 PM »
Hi Hope,

I too ditto everything changing said (couldn't say it better).

I also wanted to thank you for posting this information.  I always thought I was shy - but am now wondering how much of that belief was nature versus nurture.  [on edit - meant to say lack of nurture ]

I have been thinking back over my childhood, and am seeing another pattern emerge - one where my being shy fitted in with who they needed me to be to fulfill their beliefs or needs rather than who I was at all.

It has been another big eye-opener.  Thank you.

Much love,
Peace
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 04:15:18 PM by finding peace »
- Life is a journey not a destination

Ami

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2007, 04:33:11 PM »
Dear Peace,
   We took on all these characteristics that were not really ours---didn't we ? I am slowly getting back(reclaiming) what my M stole. I have so many different traits,( that I like,) that I simply gave up in the frantic search for her to love me.
   MY M is like Bones's friend. She reminds me of those children's toys that are  inflatable clowns with a weight at the bottom that you punch. You keep punching it and it keeps coming back up. That is my M. There is NO learning curve-- like Bones's friend.
   If Bones had ANOTHER graduation, the friend would do the SAME thing.  It would be 'instant replay"It is the same thing with the "trips " with the  friend's' mother.
  Peace, I see us as excavating the real self--inside-- which has so mnay wonderful traits. I bet that you have so many,many traits that you just pushed aside so that you could survive in that house of horrors.
  I know that you do .I can hear so many wonderful personality traits right over the internet.                                                Love      Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

finding peace

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Re: Causes of Shyness
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2007, 05:24:24 PM »
Dear Ami,

I am AMAZED at how insidious a lot of the abuse was, and how much it molded my personality.  Although sometimes painful to uncover these layers, it is sooo wonderfully liberating once you work through it. 

I like your description of your M and Bone's friend.  When you described that clown, I got a picture in my head of the clown from Stephen King's book IT.  (If you are not familiar with it - a very scary clown face).  I also thought of my Dad as the energizer bunny from hell (now that was a funny picture  :lol:).

Thank you so much for the compliment.  I still feel shock when someone compliments me - I never, never had a kind word from my FOO (M, F, and Bro).

You are such a generous and caring person, Ami, thank you again.

With much love,
Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination