I love this discussion.
I am petrified to start dating again.
I am very good with the small talk. I keep it “light”; come to think of it, my dad used to always say “keep it light”.
Unlike Axa & S&S, I do not reveal my shadow side. I use small talk to “keep it light” not as a means of boundaries, by rather walls: I’m scared to show the real me. I’m afraid of looking vulnerable, so I put up walls (not boundaries) to keep it light. I hate talking about myself and I give very little info about me as my way of protecting myself.
But, I do crave intimacy. I want intimacy without revealing myself, particularly my shadow side.
Part of not revealing myself entails not expressing my needs because I used to think that I would seem vulnerable if I expressed my needs.
Also, my parents’ message to me was that it was selfish to express my needs and that I should just satisfy the other person. Sacrifice myself to please the other.
My parent’s taught me that I shouldn’t have needs because “needs” are selfish and therefore, I should satisfy the man’s needs and ignore my own. Basically, I should be a doormat. But, being a doormat never felt good to me, so, I couldn’t make relationships work.
So, I’m in a bind: I want intimacy, but am/was afraid to express my needs and I feel resentment that my needs are not met.
But, now I see that I must express my needs and that being assertive is being honest. Not expressing needs is being dishonest to myself and the other person. It’s OK and not selfish to say “no” and to express what I want.
Authentic, this really describes me too:
it really took me getting hurt over and over to realize that what I thought was being a "good girl" was really setting my self up to be taken advantaged of and selling myself short, and what I thought was being selfish was really taking good care of myself and making my needs a priority.
Axa, what a great and profound question: “I wonder am I always looking and not being.”
I read that N parents raise us in such a way so that we cannot just “be”. We are always trying to please others (originally trying to please our parents, and of course, we never could please them), but we can’t just “be” ourselves and therefore, we can’t feel accepted in our own skins. Maybe this is why we crave the approval of others: Since we were always trying to please our parents and we never could please (satisfy) them, we try to fill this void in ourselves by trying for the rest of our lives to please others. And, of course, we wind up just being unhappy because we can never please “them” and we can’t please ourselves.
So, maybe we act like “good girls” and crave validation and intimacy with others (and want immediate intimacy) because we were not validated by our parents (& our parents weren’t validated by their parents), so we spend the rest of our lives seeking validation and intimacy, but never getting them until & unless we begin to validate ourselves by asserting our needs.
As I think about all this, I conclude that we cannot achieve healthy intimacy and that we will be victims of out desire for validation unless we first commit to asserting our needs.
Thanks for helping me see this.
Re: the feeling “I’m showing you my vulnerabilities, my shadow, so please don’t hurt me”, I think the problem here is trusting someone with our personal and intimate info before they have proven they can be trusted. I think we are so desperate for intimacy (I want it now!) and validation, that we trust people before they have proven to us that they are trustworthy. Yes, I think this is about our need to be taken care of by our parents.
Before we know whether the other person is trustworthy (and not an N), we feel an immediate intimacy and want their validation, so we disclose our shadow side and then later realize that the person is an N. OOPS!
My N parents raised me to not have boundaries. Until I discoverd NPD, I didn’t know what boundaries were. Now, I understand boundaries, and I love them.
I think the “I’m showing you my vulnerabilities, my shadow, so please don’t hurt me” issue comes down to boundaries: As I’ve read in the Boundary books, we are the gate keepers of our boindaries and we should only open a boundary only after someone has proven that they are trustworthy. And, it takes time to find out if someone is trustworthy, so therefore, we should not rush into intimacy, should not rush into opening a boundary until we know that it’s safe to do so.
CB: why did you (& me) ignore read flags and interpret things contrary to reality? Here’s what I think: our N parents groomed us that way, they groomed us to live in denial and gaslighting. As children, if we saw the truth, we wouldn’t be able to handle it, so we adopted defense mechanisms like denial and as we grew up, we kept using defense mechanisms which prevented us from seeing the truth, prevented us from comprehending the Red Flags. Once we have become aware that we are using defense mechanisms like denial, we can see the truth and then the Red Flags become visible.
Also, due to the denial, we don’t listen to our inner voice and we second guess ourselves and tell ourselves that it’s really not as bad as we think.
CB: you mentioned that you are afraid of being hurt by someone else’s boundaries: good point. Maybe the way to solve this is to talk to the person and honestly and respectfully assert your needs so that you don’t feel voiceless. If the person honestly and respectfully disagrees with you, then you have to decide whether it’s a deal breaker. Hopefully, there can be a compromise and the 2 of you can work it out. But, I think the key here is to assert your needs and be true to yourself. We can't feel happy if we feel like a voiceless, non-assertive, resentful doormat.
Ami: Love the “we’re not driving our own cars” Yes!! We gotta drive our own cars on the road of life.
Great discussion!!
Love, sally
