Inciting you to destroy yourself

[Hopalong]

Oh, ((((((Sun))))).

Have some love now.
Coming right at you.

Hops

[JanetLG]

Sally, Sun, Ami,

Me too, about the hair!!

And I BET we've all got lovely hair really, and our mothers were dead jealous. I had wavy blonde hair when I was small - and was told I had 'deformed follicles', otherwise it would be nice and straight (like hers)!

But what has the cost been, to have been ridiculed about our 'crowning glory'?


Janet

[Hopalong]

Deformed follicles, my ass!
I swear.
#$%^&*$%^&*%^&*%^&%^&^%#@#$()*!*

I remember giving my parents a big pic, the only print, someone took of me in college, best shot of my then-amazing mane ever. It was a big fall of hair. I was very happy with my long hair. When I next came home they had CUT off all my hair to fit just my face into a little round frame.

Errgghh. That was so symbolic. (Get that sexuality tamed, get the scissors!)

So now in my dotage I'm going to grow my flaming white hair down to my bodacious booster seat.

Hops

[Ami]

For many years while I was in college, I had a "smart, stylish " haircut like Dorothy Hammil(if you remember her haircut). One day,it hit me that I had really nice thick, auburn hair. WHY do I have to have it in a short boy- type hair cut?
  I let it grow. That moment was a pivotal moment when it just "hit" me,"WHY do I have to follow what she says?"
 I did not make the connection to other areas of life ,though. It stopped with the hair. On everything else, I followed her tapes in my head. I left home to go to college and never went back( to live).
However, I have not had an independent thought or emotion since I was 14. I was already programmed as the N clone( as Vaknin says).
  I have been a clone up until right now when I am questioning it- BLEH. What a life. If I did not believe in eternal life, I could not face how much I have ruined this one.                Love Ami

[Certain Hope]

What is this?  This is the heart of what I don't understand.

This is what my gut tells me that my family is about.  When they savagely attack me and project on me and put me down and shred and push and show so much contempt and disgust -

They are inciting me to harm myself.  They are inciting me to destroy myself.

Iphi,

The way I feel about this is... if we're willing to "undo ourselves", then they don't have to work so hard toward our demise, do they?
After all, that's what they trained us to do... to UN-do ourselves, to blend into obscurity in the presence of their dismal glow. And for what?
Surely not for love... more like for permission to be able to continue to take up space. There's nothing resembling love in the mix.

NPD, especially cerebral N, demands to be needed, desired, desperately sought after, and idealized as the ultimate guru.
Differences of perspective are not allowed and so the moment you sense one of these differences coming on, you begin to disintegrate... by sheer habit.

We flawed, mortal human beings are not allowed to even exist apart from the orbit of N, around whom all things slightly less wonderful do rotate.
Is it possible to un-exist? When you're raised by NPD it is... and that's what you're expressing here, I sense.
 
The only way to get "positive" notice in the eyes of N (especially cerebral N) is to loudly, repeatedly declare one's total, abject dependence on his/her "wisdom" and pledge eternal agreement with anything which spews out of her/his mouth, regardless of content.

It's clear that you will not bow the knee and receive the bile thus spewed, and therefore, you must be in the process of being destroyed... ??
....but wait, there you are... I see you!!... whole and breathing and moving and growing...
you didn't cease to exist!

You're not destroyed, Iphi.
They are... destroyed by their own illusions, depriving themselves of the one salve which could mend their rotten souls...
the genuine love of one flawed and frail child of God for another.

You wrote in a later post: 
They see you protecting yourself as hurting them.  They think you have no right to protect yourself and should allow them to rampage all over you. 
They cannot accept that you have any rights.  Any rights of yours are an offense to them.

Exactly. The penultimate envy... "Thou shalt disappear into me and cease to exist as anything other than my reflection, in order to prove thine love"
Narcissus.
Yuck.
The only way to please N is to utterly disappear as a unique individual with thoughts and feelings of your own.
NO contact is the only way, I believe, as I stuff another unopened envelope under the file cabinet.

With love,
Carolyn

[JanetLG]

Carolyn,

I agree that NC is the only way to go, but can you tell me why you keep any mail sent to you by them, even if you don't open it? I find that I have to destroy it(burning is good), or the thought of it still existing eats away at me, and does almost as much damage as if I'd opend it.

Just curious as to how you manage it!

Janet

[Certain Hope]

Carolyn,

I agree that NC is the only way to go, but can you tell me why you keep any mail sent to you by them, even if you don't open it? I find that I have to destroy it(burning is good), or the thought of it still existing eats away at me, and does almost as much damage as if I'd opend it.

Just curious as to how you manage it!

Janet

Hi Janet,

To date, I have pretty much non-managed it.
Used to let the envelopes pile up until the guilt overwhelmed me... and then I'd rip through a large stack of them all at once. I do still feel some responsibility to distribute the content of these envelopes, because they're addressed to all of us here, although my kids don't pick up the letters and read them when I put them out on the "coffee table" (a snack tray in disguise... who has room for a coffeetable?) 
Ugh, I dunno, Janet.
"Mother" still sends a one dollar bill for each of her two remaining grandchildren here, but my kids don't even pick those up from the tray.
I have to put these dollars into their bedrooms... where I'll often find them later, stuffed into a corner or under the bed. My husband suggested that I just ask the kids how they feel about these letters and dollars and such... but I don't trust myself quite yet to engage in that discussion. I have shared a bit with them about how I was raised... and how that's impacted me.

But I've never initiated a formal "no contact". And right now, I would feel bad about myself if I didn't first tell my parents something - - - but what?   "You may as well stop writing because nobody is reading here" ???  And I still have alot of my old fear of conflict, as well.
On August 31, I sent them a letter introducing myself to them and telling them who I am... and who I'm not.
At this point, I don't know what sort of response would be more difficult to receive... one where they tried to address what I said to them? or one which just ignored the whole thing? ... but whatever their response is to be, that's what is in this envelope I've stuffed. On my 4th day non-smoking, I really don't feel up to dealing with it at all, and so - as I take one day at a time - today's choice is for "No Contact".

Carolyn

[lighter]

Oh ((Iphi))

I learned enough about what's going in around me, with other people.... that has nothing to do with me.... that I no longer feel I have to figure everything about it out.

All I HAVE to do is figure out how to take care of myself and show my children how to do that for themselves. 

The hardest part is the vertigo caused by looking around and taking stock of what I DO HAVE to work with in my life. 

My family passes in my vision and I'd like to stop and take stock, but there's preciouse little to take stock of.

Watching them whiiiirrrrr by causes a bit of dizziness, but I have to stay focused on what's beyond.

It's not really their responsibility to nurture me and make me whole.  That's still my job.

It was their responsibilty to NOT BE TOXIC, but hey...... that was beyond their power so I can't beat them up about it or keep banging my head on that wall. 

I don't have quite the dysfunction that some here have..... a lot less in my FOO than most. 

It's easy for me to say that you can build a better life for yourself and limit the contact with your family in order to be healthier. 

When you've figured out enough of what you need to understand, I hope you do reach out and cultivate rich lasting bonds with people you make into honorary family members.

Two of my very best friends are women who are 80yo and 76yo.  I created family to love me and nurture me, guide me and help me.  People who care about the little things and the big things.  That tell me their truth, no matter whether I want to hear it or not. 

Then they step back and allow me to reach out to them as I need to, to keep my balance.  We all need to tell our truths to other people and still be loved, warts and all. 

We all have to maintain contact with people who we trust, people who have our best interest in mind. 

If they aren't family members.... then we're obligated to find them elsewhere and that's just the way I feel about that now.

Create your own happiness and depend less on your family.  They can't do any better ((Iphi))...

or they would. 

[JanetLG]

Dear Carolyn,

Oh, I see that if they're not addressed to you alone, then it is much harder to deal with (and if you've just started stopping smoking, then now is not the time to be thinking about this!).

It's interesting how your children are handling the money 'gifts' (i.e virtually ignoring them).

It's very hard to know what to do, though. The contents of letters are awful if you open them, and somehow awful if you don't.

Sometimes I've sent letters back, but only after I've opened them and got angry at the contents (I recently received copies of photos of my family from when I was 12, sent by my NMum's latest 'boyfriend', to 'remind me of happier times'.

Those went back, with a note elucidating exactly in what way they WEREN'T happier times - how would HE know? He didn't meet my NMum till two years ago! The photos were taken in 1974. I wish I could just ignore the letters, but my curiosity usually gets the better of me, and it does me no good at all.

Still, the burning of the letters that I end up keeping helps.

Janet

[Ami]

_{[
I learned enough about what's going in around me, with other people.... that has nothing to do with me.... that I no longer feel I have to figure everything about it out}.
 

Dear Iphi,
 I just wanted to comment about the quote(above).
IMO-- we ,FIRST, have to look within AND outside(FOO) in order to FACE what happened. IMO, if we do not face everything, we will not heal deeply. We want to heal deeply,not superficially.
  I think that many people try to fix the outside without first facing the inside.
 I don't believe  that this is 'real' healing.
  I am just saying this b/c it is easy for a person in the first stages of healing to feel "pushed back". I don't mean to be contentious ,in any way ,to Lighter. I am just sharing what I believe are the crucial steps in  healing                         Love  Ami

[lighter]

_{[
I learned enough about what's going in around me, with other people.... that has nothing to do with me.... that I no longer feel I have to figure everything about it out}.
 

Dear Iphi,
 I just wanted to comment about the quote(above).
IMO-- we ,FIRST, have to look within AND outside(FOO) in order to FACE what happened. IMO, if we do not face everything, we will not heal deeply. We want to heal deeply,not superficially.  I think that many people try to fix the outside without first facing the inside.
 I don't believe  that this is 'real' healing.
  I am just saying this b/c it is easy for a person in the first stages of healing to feel "pushed back". I don't mean to be contentious ,in any way ,to Lighter. I am just sharing what I believe are the crucial steps in  healing                         Love  Ami

Who said we don't have to identify/face problems and causes with reference to healing?

I certainly.... did not.

Understanding enough about what happened to us, is enough, IMO..... and is bound to be different for everyone. 

If I had to 'figure out' everything about why the people who hurt me, did what they did.... I'd still be going round, compulsively, in circles.... without experiencing any healing at all, superficial or real.
 
You're certainly welcome to share what you believe the crucial steps of real healing to be but.....

I'd appreciate it if you didn't translate my posts in the future. 

You suck at it; )

[JanetLG]

Lighter,

On 2nd September, on the 'RE: Lighter' thread, you wrote:

"I'll be posting support only, for a while: )"


Didn't seem to last long, did it?

Janet

[Poppyseed]

_{[
I learned enough about what's going in around me, with other people.... that has nothing to do with me.... that I no longer feel I have to figure everything about it out}.
 

Dear Iphi,
 I just wanted to comment about the quote(above).
IMO-- we ,FIRST, have to look within AND outside(FOO) in order to FACE what happened. IMO, if we do not face everything, we will not heal deeply. We want to heal deeply,not superficially.
  I think that many people try to fix the outside without first facing the inside.
 I don't believe that this is 'real' healing.
  I am just saying this b/c it is easy for a person in the first stages of healing to feel "pushed back". I don't mean to be contentious ,in any way ,to Lighter. I am just sharing what I believe are the crucial steps in  healing                         Love  Ami

I used to think I had to examine everything...the FOO....the pain....the roots. I learned a lot in the process but I used up a lot of years in this pursuit as well.   The more I looked, the more I found to sift through!   It felt much like being lost in a maze, and I would imagine the exit around the next bend! ...only to find myself stuck in another blind corner or hairpin turn.  My method made my pain a giant tar baby.   I learned that there are things I just CAN'T know.  I also learned that my perceptions of events were not always right and that an absolute complete understanding of my "stuff" may never come.   I also learned that I couldn't heal myself completely by myself.  For me, I had to hand the stuff I couldn't do to God and ask Him what part was His and which part was mine.   I have to walk in the dark and hold His hand and let go of my need to "know".  This letting Go and letting God was the most healing step I have ever taken.  My life and my healing are more manageable. I don't tackle all of it anymore.  I am more patient with myself and the process.  I smile more.  Line upon line, precept upon precept.   If it bubbles up, I know I need to deal with it in some way.   But I control the way I deal with it now.  I don't use a magnifying glass.  I don't dissect every detail.  I listen to the pain.  I listen to my inner voice.  I ask God for guidance and I listen to that too and take action that seems right.   And then I try to let it go of it even if I don't understand the depths and the breadths. It is a balancing act. And difficult at times to maintain the balance.  But the healing is coming!  That thing I was so desperate for....that thing I kept chasing, hunting, scouring for, has just kind of landed on my shoulder like a butterfly.

This is my process.  Something that is working for me.  Not for everyone.  Just my two cents.

[lighter]

That's my experience as well,  Poppy.

Also.....

It's hope that kills us.

Simply accepting that we'll never get the love we surely deserved, allows us to turn to more positive things?

[Certain Hope]

I learned enough about what's going in around me, with other people.... that has nothing to do with me.... that I no longer feel I have to figure everything about it out[/sub].
 
I used to think I had to examine everything...the FOO....the pain....the roots. I learned a lot in the process but I used up a lot of years in this pursuit as well.   The more I looked, the more I found to sift through!   It felt much like being lost in a maze, and I would imagine the exit around the next bend! ...only to find myself stuck in another blind corner or hairpin turn.  My method made my pain a giant tar baby.   I learned that there are things I just CAN'T know.  I also learned that my perceptions of events were not always right and that an absolute complete understanding of my "stuff" may never come.   I also learned that I couldn't heal myself completely by myself.  For me, I had to hand the stuff I couldn't do to God and ask Him what part was His and which part was mine.   I have to walk in the dark and hold His hand and let go of my need to "know".  This letting Go and letting God was the most healing step I have ever taken.  My life and my healing are more manageable. I don't tackle all of it anymore.  I am more patient with myself and the process.  I smile more.  Line upon line, precept upon precept.   If it bubbles up, I know I need to deal with it in some way.   But I control the way I deal with it now.  I don't use a magnifying glass.  I don't dissect every detail.  I listen to the pain.  I listen to my inner voice.  I ask God for guidance and I listen to that too and take action that seems right.   And then I try to let it go of it even if I don't understand the depths and the breadths. It is a balancing act. And difficult at times to maintain the balance.  But the healing is coming!  That thing I was so desperate for....that thing I kept chasing, hunting, scouring for, has just kind of landed on my shoulder like a butterfly.
This is my process.  Something that is working for me.  Not for everyone.  Just my two cents.

This is really so lovely to me, Poppy... thank you for the imagery. Feels like it will remain with me always... both the imagery and the butterfly, actually.

In my opinion, and from my experience, the notion that everything can be figured out, pinned down, sewn up, boxed, labeled, and 100% actualized = bunk.
Life is what happens while all that is frittering away the hours and life is God's gift to be lived, not frittered.
Just my penny's worth on this.

Carolyn.