Dealing with my Inlaws

[Poppy Seed]

This last year for me and my family has been overwhelming on both sides of the equation for me.  Great and terrible!  One part of my struggle is with my in laws and extended family.  We have been involved in a family fight which originated with the news that my H had a secret addiction and that I was leaving him.  The fame's initial reaction was shock and then they descended on me with what looked like support, but I soon learned it was caretaking and manipulation and a search for more information.  For the first time in my life with these people, I put up boundaries.  I explained that I didn't want my children with anyone but me.  That I didn't need a shoulder to cry on.  That I didn't feel the way they thought I should feel.  I felt great.  I felt free.  I was careful what I shared.  But I soon learned that they became very offended that I wasn't playing along.  It was such a shock to me. And I couldn't make sense of it at the time.  So, I just ignored it and went forward in my own strength.  The fam started lash out.  Our feelings were hurt.  We said so rather calmly.  We had emotion but we tried to be honest but controlled.  They exploded with negative feedback.  I became the target of all the blame.  YUCK!  I was told that I was toxic and not worth knowing.  It was a deep cut into my soul and I am not sure I am really over it.  My H was fed up.  He finally saw the influence of his family because they had turned against him.  It was as if he had tarnished the family name and hurt them too much and they were going to force him back into compliance with the family rules.  He said no.  He asked them to stay out of our business and to give us space.  That was the worst event.  All Hell broke loose after that.  Hostility and harsh words came to my house.  My MIL told us to go to Hell.  (Now, for many of you that is probably not that big of a deal.  But in my conservative community, this is very out of the ordinary.)  It hurt my H deeply.  And I don't think he is quite over it.  In the months that have followed, we have moved away, tried to save our marriage, tried to start our lives over outside of this very enmeshed fam, recover from addiction, learn not to codependant, try to gain our confidence back, and in short heal in every way possible.  I felt like so much hit me all at once.  And I literally felt devastated by the events and words and my own weakness and pain in the middle of all of it.  His family doesn't like anything we are doing.  We are breaking every rule and are the enemy or the abuser in their eyes.  It is difficult for me to take.  I loved them so.  I gave so much to them.  I realize now that I bought into the family system and that I need to take my power back.  I now see their tactics.  I see how we are shaking the definition of who they thought they were.  I am detaching from them.  Well, at least trying to.  I feel so good about my progress.  But now I have a problem.  My H, who used to think I was an object and there to take care of him, has completely changed.  He sees that he was the "golden child" and that the world was there to continually tell him how wonderful he was.  In his life, he hasn't had to take responsibility for anything.  His mom took care of him.  His father micromanaged him.  They weakened him.  So when anything bad would happen, and I wasn't there to make everything pretty again, he lashed out and blamed me for any feeling other than happiness.  He came to realize that this is how he was treating me.  He did a 180 and now we are rebuilding our relationship from the ground up.  He is putting up huge boundaries.  He takes all the flack from him family to shield me.  He defends me but refuses to give personal information.  This has been our plan for the last 2 months.  He doesn't want the enmeshment.  He doesn't want them hurting me.  But at the same time he missed them.  He missed the good parts of his connection to them.  And there really are some good parts.  It is clear that none of the good was ever there for me.  So, we have to deal with that rejection.  It is hard for him to handle.  I think he feels like he has to choose between them and me.  I don't want to keep him from his family.  But I can't tolerate their effect on my self worth.  I can't deal with the manipulations and railroading and all the rest!  What do I do?  My kids want to see them and play with cousins.  The family is constantly emailing and phoning trying to make everything go back to order.  I feel the pressure and the manipulation and so does my H.  But he loves them and wants to start attending family functions, especially the holidays approaching.  I feel sick to my stomach about the idea.  I don't think I could keep my self respect if I attended an event under these circumstances.  Had they received my apologies and overtures.  Had they apologized for their own bad behavior.  Had they acknowledged our struggles and supported us.  Had they acted like NON-N people, we could embrace them.  But that is not our circumstance.  I feel like it is a stand off.  They are waiting for us to comply so they can love us.  We are wanting change so we can love them.  We are deadlocked.  What do I do?  What do I lose if I give in?  Am I not forgiving?  I wrestle with so many thoughts.  Do you have any insight?????  No contact seems to be a temporary solution.  But doesn't seem like the right thing.  So I must navigate the middle ground and maintain my "self" (which is like a new sampling right now) and make the decisions best for my kids and H.  Help!!!  What's a girl to do??

[Certain Hope]

Hi Pops,

Everything you've done and are doing sounds so positive and right to me.

I'm having a hard time imagining what are these "good parts" of your husband's connection to his family?
No doubt he misses the people with whom he's related for a lifetime... I understand! But does he realize that maybe they are not even the people he thought they were?
This is something in my mind more from npd-ex than my parents (I am not 100% there yet with them), but N's are really only an illusion... a false front... impossible to "know" because there's nobody home.

I hear you setting yourself up as the bad guy here, since:
" It is clear that none of the good was ever there for me. "

What I'd suggest is that it is equally as clear (to me) that there was never any good in it for him, either. The whole thing is a figment of N-dom.
I know how difficult it is to let go of what "should" have been, but it's up to your husband to work through to the point of accepting what never was... just as you and I have had to do with our own families of origin.

Whether or not you can stomach a holiday celebration with them depends more on your certainty of who you have become rather than what they are.
There is no rule that you must do holidays, Pops.
There's no rule that your husband must, either... he just doesn't know that yet.
The old leave and cleave principle might suggest that it's just as much a holiday when it's you two and your children as if it's celebrated in any other way.
Well, I could go on and on about that, but maybe... if he's really and truly awakened to all of the problems... your husband can see that participating in an extended-family get-together over the next few months would be akin to me smoking a cigarette after just having quit 10 days ago. Think of how much of your mutual progress could be torn to shreds. Is it worth the risk?

Not suggesting anything one way or another, really, just offering some thoughts.
If nothing's changed with these people and they've taken no deliberate, consistent steps toward respecting you and your husband and children as your own unique family... well, what would be the point of going for a day and pretending like everything is ok?

It's not love that you're withholding, Pops. It's submission. You're under no command to love them the way THEY are demanding. Your love is your gift to them to distribute as YOU see fit. This upcoming holiday season is not the end-all. There are many more holidays to come. They may never change, but you will... I am certain of that. There may come a holiday at some point where you are willing and eager to invite them into your home for a get-together on your turf and on your terms. I doubt whether they'd accept that... but you can only offer what's yours to give, when you're ready. Just my perspective.

Love,
Carolyn

[lighter]

Wow Poppy.... I remember when your H was making these realizations... and I'm still amazed at his ability to sort through and come up with such painful conclusions.... so happy for you both that he has. 

Very nice to read he's still on that path and protecting you.

I understand the In Law dilemma right now... very well.

As I see it... it's still your H's responsibility to require they act reasonably around you. 

That would include making sure you share in whatever good the family offers him, if he's to receive it.

If they can't own up to anything.... if you must remain sick and allow them to scapegoat and reject you..... then I beleive your H will have to choose.

How awful that is to read.

I don't see this as the cure but..... Have you discussed his attending a couple family gatherings, with the children, while you go to the spa for a weekend?

I know it sounds like a joke but.... if they refuse to be sane and your husband misses them soooo much he simply must eat pie with them..... the children could play with the cousins and you could relax and do something you actually enjoy?

I forget if they do crazy things to the children, or not.  All that would depend on, KWIM?

All I can say is.... you H isn't healed as long as he allows them to treat you badly and engages with them without having some kind of agreement about how they'll treat you. 

Now is the time for him to negotiate that..... before things go back to normal. 

It is difficult to make these decisions.... when you're considering your children's best interests and you care as much about your spouse's needs as your own. 

Don't forget..... your needs count too.

H must consider them as much as his own and his FOO is used to his compliance. 

They will keep pressuring him to cut you out and hang you up.

That's not fair either and I don't see how you could accept that.

Sorry.... I don't.  Not now anyway.

My situation is different than yours but..... T told my H that he had to GO TO HIS PARENTS and take all the responsibility himself. 

Your H has to handle this. 

What do you really really want to happen?

What do you want him to ask for?

Do you want him to go NC forever?

[Bella_French]

Dearest Poppyseed,

Hugs to you! You've really been through a lot haven't you? You deserve a HUGE pat of the back, hon;  I think you've handled things so incredibly bravely, maturely, and wisely. I can't think of anything either of you could have done differently; its just so sad that your in laws are such abusive people and are acting like total babies in response to your calmly stated boundaries. None of that is your fault; it just exposes them for who they are: abusers with no respect.

Poppyseed, my partner and I have been through a similar situation and the pattern was the same as what you described. I  can say that it does get better with time; it just takes a while for the feelings of fear and guilt to settle down. All this will have been worth it, for the peace you will have as a couple.

With us, it wasn't his in laws but a couple he had known since childhood, who he had lived with in an abusive and enmeshed relationship for 2 years just prior to us getting together. My partner's role in this threesome was some weird combination of `golden child, surrogate husband to the female, and hand maiden to her Narcissim'. It was weird and unhealthy, but he didn't see it.

When I came into the picture, the dynamics of that enmeshment faltered, and I became the target of their abuse and attempts to divide us. Oddly,I adored them at first and really wanted to be their friend, but their possessiveness, rudeness, and disrespect required me to articulate certain boundaries.

I pretty much handled things the way you have; I was terrified for the entire time though. The couple's overall behavior insinuated that I was the problem (not their disrespect), and that everything would be nice again  if my partner got rid of me. I was very scared that he would!

I stopped dealing with them in any way, and my partner started to assert boundaries with them. They were mild and gentlely expressed boundaries, but they sent the message that he had `rights', and this was not part of the bargain in their mind. In response, they became increasingly cunning and demanding, and very cruel to him. For example, they asked him to be the best man at their wedding, which he was totally excited about. He spent alot of time and money of preparations (his suit, planning the bucks night). Then, the week before the wedding they rang him up and said that he couldn't come to the wedding if he brought me along. They didn't even give him a reason!

Poppyseed, I know exactly what you mean about the agony of seeing your partner's pain, and feeling somehow responsible. My partner cried in my arms that night, and it broke my heart.

Anyway, I let the guilt get to me, and i made the mistake of trying to patch everything up with them. All it it did was open us up to further abuse, until we ceased contact with them altogether.

Poppyseed, it took us maybe 2 years to recover, and we still talk about it from time to time. I guess it still hurts us both. But it really was worth it.
It really does get better.

love to you

X bella

[Poppy Seed]

Hope, Your comments really help!  Thank you.  I feel like my instincts are saying similar things.  I am still learning to trust them!  I do feel like I have done everything I could have done and most of my efforts have been used against me.  We feel a tremendous amount of pressure to participate from the fam.  They use our common religion as logic or leverage. ( My church promotes families and happiness within them) They basically see our distance as defection.  I wish we could leave and move across the country.  Maybe some day.  For now, I feel that this is where we are and I am making the best of it.  I know one thing, they have not taken ANY steps to respect us or me or our family in any way.  Everytime I ask for something I am ignored or characterized in some dark light.  I am getting tired.  I get one email every week.  They have stopped calling the house because they know I won't answer.  Although, I do when my nephew calls cause I kinda want to protect the kids in all of this.  But I don't want to give away any of the ground I have retaken.  I feel stingy that way.  And sometimes my christian logic gets me a little screwed up in terms of love and kindness and what that means exactly in the day to day stuff.

And I am so proud! 10 days!  That is like a decade in dog years, right?  You are doing so incredibly well!! 


Bella,  Sounds like you know first hand my delimma.  It is comforting to know it took you two years to rebound from your situation.  Sometimes I put such pressure on myself to resolve things quickly and I sometimes panic when it doesn't resolve or heal on my timelines.  That is something I love from this board.  You and others have taught me the value of patience and the benefits of taking the pressure off.  I wish I knew exactly what to do so that I can rest on this issue.  You have given me a lot to think about with regards to guilt and fear.  I seem to battle those two guys daily!!!  I love it that your partner helped protect you by setting boundaries.  That sounds like good people to me!

Love, Pops

[Bella_French]

Dear Poppyseed,

It was his first time at setting boundaries, and I was so afraid he wouldn't do it because he wanted to keep them as friends and take the easy path. He is such a gentle, passive person; these are beautiful qualities as my partner, but I was so afraid that he was too weak to protect our relationship in the long run (from anybody!) and I was prepared to leave. I took a step back, because I didn't want to play the wicked witch. I just told him how I felt, and let him decide how to handle things with his friends. I didn't think he handled things perfectly (he still used me as the scapegoat a few times) but I gave him slack because he's learning, and he did protect us, in his own way.

You hubby sounds very good too. Its really hard on him, I expect, but hes made the right decisions. When it comes down to it, he protects your relationship; it helps build trust, don't you think?

My only advice is don't try to fix things out of guilt (like I tried to do). Please trust in your judgement and decision.

love to you!

X Bella

[Poppy Seed]

Wow Poppy.... I remember when your H was making these realizations... and I'm still amazed at his ability to sort through and come up with such painful conclusions.... so happy for you both that he has. 

Very nice to read he's still on that path and protecting you.

I understand the In Law dilemma right now... very well.

As I see it... it's still your H's responsibility to require they act reasonably around you. 

That would include making sure you share in whatever good the family offers him, if he's to receive it.

If they can't own up to anything.... if you must remain sick and allow them to scapegoat and reject you..... then I believe your H will have to choose.

How awful that is to read.

I don't see this as the cure but..... Have you discussed his attending a couple family gatherings, with the children, while you go to the spa for a weekend?

I know it sounds like a joke but.... if they refuse to be sane and your husband misses them soooo much he simply must eat pie with them..... the children could play with the cousins and you could relax and do something you actually enjoy?

I forget if they do crazy things to the children, or not.  All that would depend on, KWIM?

All I can say is.... you H isn't healed as long as he allows them to treat you badly and engages with them without having some kind of agreement about how they'll treat you. 

Now is the time for him to negotiate that..... before things go back to normal. 

It is difficult to make these decisions.... when you're considering your children's best interests and you care as much about your spouse's needs as your own. 

Don't forget..... your needs count too.

H must consider them as much as his own and his FOO is used to his compliance. 

They will keep pressuring him to cut you out and hang you up.

That's not fair either and I don't see how you could accept that.

Sorry.... I don't.  Not now anyway.

My situation is different than yours but..... T told my H that he had to GO TO HIS PARENTS and take all the responsibility himself. 

Your H has to handle this. 

What do you really really want to happen?

What do you want him to ask for?

Do you want him to go NC forever?

What do I really want? I really wanted to be loved and accepted by them.  I really wanted us to work through our differences, understand one another, and negotiate a better working/relating environment.  THAT WON"T HAPPEN.  So, I want my H to be happy.  I want them to stop pressuring us.  I don't want my kids to be hurt.  They don't openly hurt my kids.  But I do think they confuse them. I am not sure if I know to what extent my children are in harms way.  I do know that my mil and sil will not get access to my children without my control.  They cannot be trusted.  I really want peace.  I really want the attacks, gossip, hard feelings to go away.  

What do I want him to ask for?  We have both done the asking in calm and straight forward ways.  It is as if we didn't speak anything but venom to them.  They don't negotiate.  They don't want to understand our feelings.  It causes them too much introspection.  They don't have flaws.  They don't need to improve or alter anything.  They just want to help us so they can feel like heroes.  But they get to dictate our problems, feelings and solutions.  There is not possibility of asking them for anything at this point.

Do I want NC forever?  Wow!  Sometimes when I am really wounded.  But my conscience doesn't feel good about it totally.  I doubt greatly that he could live with that scenario.  He doesn't know what he wants.  I, stupidly, still hold out hope that God will change their hearts and maybe mine too and we can resolve this thing peacefully.


Thanks for helping me see clearly the responsibility of my H to protect me.  He is really trying.  He has some blind spots, but almost every night now he wants to talk about N and figure out how he can create a safer place for me.  It is his number one goal right now.  He is trying to balance that with his own needs of connection with his family.  He loves them so much.  They have been extremely close over the years.  I have always felt that they were strangely navigating life on the surface.  I don't think even with his knew understandings that he can throw them out of his life.  I ask him what he wants from them.  He wants limited connection.  But he doesn't know what that will look like considering the inability of his family to accept anything other than their expectations.  It is all or passive aggressive punishment.  

I am exhausted by all of it. Sick of being in a constant state of defense as I fear the next phone call or email.  I literally can't breath in and out without side line comment on everything I say or do or am.  It has been ten years stuck in the mire and two years of openly wounding experience and I am exhausted and I want to find a solution I can live with so I  can rest and be.

Poppy

[Poppy Seed]

Bella,

I will trust my judgement.  Thanks!   I am commited, as hard as it is, to learn to trust myself and God.  It feels like such a battle sometimes to keep centered in this way.  I am getting better at it with each passing experience.  Getting to know the warning signs when I start to go against myself.

What do you mean by fixing my way out of the guilt? Do you mean fixing my relationship with the N's? or with my H?   And how did you get rid of burdan of the unhealthy guilt? (if you don't mind me asking)

Poppy

[Bella_French]

Dear Poppyseed,

I felt so bad about being the `dividing force', even though on some level I knew I was not responsible for the division: their behaviour was. Nonetheless, I felt terrible.

To `fix the guilt' I tried to make the peace between myself and the friends, even after everything they had done. I did it because I couldn't bear seeing my partner in pain.
I rang the friends and apologised for the conflict, and the friends then became part of our lives again, but didn't change their behavior at all or apologise to me. I guess they just interpreted my actions as weakness or something. So we had to go through the grief of going through more drama and losing them a  second time. I feel that I made a mistake, not sticking by my own judgment the first time.

Dear poppyseed, you really sound at wits end right now. Do you think there is anyway to kind of firm up the boundaries a little? Whatever contact you're having with the in laws, its obviously still too much, because you're feeling so worn out and distressed. It sounds like for now, you need space and rest from their drama. I think this is a reasonable request, don't you?

X Bella

[Certain Hope]

(((((((((((((Poppy)))))))))))))

I know it must feel like this has been going on forever, but just please let me remind you that the actual boundaries have not been in place for all that long with these people. It's only natural that they're still tuggin on the chain, trying to find a weak link.

It's my belief that as long as you and your husband continue strengthening your individual personal boundaries and your boundaries as a couple, your extended family members will sense that joint solidarity. It's kinda like disciplining our kids... they're gonna test and poke and push... but consistency and the presentation of a united front will win the day. I am absolutely sure of it. I know that you both can do this!!

Maybe check this out, okay?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2000/004/10.36.html

Here's just the first bit:
Boundaries for In-laws
Establishing rules to protect your marriage
By John Townsend

Parents can be a blessing to a married couple by offering love, wisdom, and encouragement. The Bible makes note of several supportive in-law relationships, namely Ruth and Naomi, Peter and his mother-in-law, and Jethro, who guided Moses. Yet the abundance of in-law jokes and stories testifies to the fact that parents can also be a heavy burden for a couple to bear. The Bible also has an example of this. David's father-in-law, King Saul, tracked him down to try to kill him. And you thought you had problems.

Whether you've had them for months, or it's been many years, in-law conflicts are certainly nothing new. Occurring in many forms, they tend to be ongoing issues that revolve around the couple as a whole. The first step toward finding a solution is to identify the problem. Here are five circumstances to consider.

Please just remember that the family which God put together in this case is your husband, you, and your children. You guys are one complete unit.
Hold that thought, okay?

Much love to you, sis,
Carolyn

P.S.  Thank you for your congratulations, mojo-mama 

[pennyplant]

Hi Poppy,

I can feel the oppression you must be enduring just from reading your first post.  It is very vivid.  There is only one reason I can think of for you to go through the holidays with the in-laws.  It is the same reason I purposely had interactions myself with a possible N last year.  In order to see the relationship with new eyes.  To verify for myself that he was what he was.  It was hard.  It was stressful.  But I did indeed see him do the expected things.  It was actually a way for me to gradually let go of this person.  It hurt a lot.  But it eventually worked.

I think your situation is more complicated, since this is family.  And they have been relentless in their treatment of you.  I don't see any detachment on your side of it yet.  Detachment is the only way I can imagine visitations working on any level.

I just don't know what would "work".  They hold all the cards.  It would be excellent if you really could move across the country from them and start over.  To me that is the best solution.

I just wanted to offer my support.  It sounds so hard to me.

(((((((((((Poppy)))))))))))))

Pennyplant

[Bella_French]

Dear Hope,

I am glad that you mentioned the concept of `boundaries as a couple'. This, I feel, is a whole topic of its own, and arouses such stress because it involves meshing the boundaries of two individuals, which may be quite different, into one `couple boundary'. I have been with so many uncaring men in the past where there were no `boundaries as a couple',  that it came as a huge challenge to work out them out when i had the opportunity. It was really so stressful; I can totally see why Poppy feels like falling apart.

In our relationship, we stumbled around for about two (painful) years, before we realized that we needed this type of boundary. Not just to deal with in laws and friends, but also sexual competitors, and general interference.  It really alleviated so much stress when we did it. I sometimes feel that most the boundaries are initiated because of disrespect towards me, though, which is where the guilt and vulnerability comes into it. But I guess i have to remind myself that the attack , although seemingly towards me, is really about `us', even if I've the one who seems to be the target.

If you have any info on `couple boundaries' I'd love to read some more information.

X Bella

[Poppy Seed]

Penny and everyone,

I think you hit the nail on the head!  I have not detached.  I think I have put boundaries into place, but have not completely detached.  Thank you for your boldness in saying it. 

Would any of you mind if I asked your input on what detachment might look like for me?  Don't want to pressure anyone to solve my problems, but I feel somewhat disoriented with floods of foggy emotion.  Maybe if I could see some examples, my spirit would resonate or be strengthened by one of them.  If you felt like you could, ANYBODY, could you help me  gently , see where my blind spots may be??

Somewhere in my heart and mind, I need to stop caring about what my IL's do, think, and feel about me.  I perhaps am still giving my power away.  Dang!! I really want to learn these lessons once and for all.  I pray for God to change me!  I read and practice.  I see now, and feel a determination to detach!!   Penny, your words have lit a fire under me and focused me.  Thank you!!  Whether I move across the country or stay where I am, detachment really could be the only key to making myself safe!!!  It is maybe the most essential piece.  That would strengthen my ability to maintain my newly established couple and personal boundaries.  Maybe like Bella, these steps will alieviate the stress.

 I have mourned the loss of people I thought were my family and friends.  I know, now, that they never were my friends. Not real ones anyway.   I am not even sure they see ME at all.  They are not worth my emotional investment -- no positive returns!  I still want to treat them with kindness and with respect. And I want to make sure I truly forgive them.  But I don't want them to have access to my heart and my feelings anymore.   They are outside the "circle of trust"!  (quote from "Meet the Parents".  Ha!)

[lighter]

Oh Poppy.... I know something's stuck in your chest that affects the breathing... it's the stress and fear and



....... not knowing.

Sooooooo hard to reaise children when you have to live this way.

Time to get down to brass tacks with hubby and figure out what sorts of boundaries (realistic)you must/can/might erect, so you don't feel this way.

clue (I think they'll be boundaries you erect around your emotions and self esteem, perhaps moving to a place of calm acceptance?)

He/H doesn't want to walk away from his FOO.

You don't want him to walk away.

You don't mind your children having contact.

They want to have contact.

So.......

what boundaries, that aren't interpreted as slaps in the face to the others, can you erect to feel better?

The kids won't be small forever... won't need your protection at this level, in other words.

You being left out of the reigndeer games isn't going to work bc it's the wrong message, unfortunately and you won't feel good about it, though I think it would suit me wonderfully to go to the spa while DH had the kids at his parent's house for a couple days, lol.  

Heh.... take that!  But really..... what do you want your children to experience?

So..... You're back to..... what?

You traipsing along.... hanging (wounded) on the outskirts of family functions... red headed and nicknamed Pugsley?

Blech.

They're going to have to do a bitbetter than that for you, my friend.  

Would it be enough for you be treated in a civil manner....  sharing understanding with your husband with the agreement that he backs them down if it needs to happen?  Maybe you get to a point where their pathology is kinda humorous.... if you feel completely understood by your H?

I don't know but....

I would like to thin we could agree to disagree and have a meal where everyone pretends they're a civil decent human being, around the children, then we run out of the building..... like our hair's on fire.... until next time?  

::big smile::

::whispering::  I couldn't do it if humor wasn't involved.

I know I'd still be on the outskirts, in spirit, and it would simply BE an act for them/FOO to pretend they don't want to make me admit to being guilty and being the cause of their pathology...

::sigh::

but there are the children and my husband to think about, so....

 if I can live with it.... and that's a big IF.... then... ::shrug::.

For you..... for me..... it would be an excercise in finding peace and beauty in every moment around us.... we don't HAVE to concentrate ON THE NEGATIVE THINGS.  Do we?

That would mean concentrating on the wind and the nice smells in the kitchen, on the songs of the season and the chatter of excited children..... their games..... the  contentment and gratitude on my husband's face and in his heart, that he was receiving this gift of family.

Paying attention to the pathologically driven in-laws wouldn't do at all... nonono.  

::shaking head::  Not at all.

You'd almost be walking through that visit.... that day..... in a meditative trance.... smiling like a buddhist monk.  

::rubbing hands together::

Imagine how upsetting that would be for M and SIL, heh.

::sigh::

I watch myself grow beyond things that might have driven me nuts at one time...and.....

it's a good thing, KWIM?

Just bc everyone else is running around, like chickens with their heads cut off.... doesn't mean it HAS to affect you or ruin your moments.

Rising above can actually be something that happens to you.... not something you practice or pretend.

Alchemy....

 improbable....  

but possible; )

[pennyplant]

Hi Poppy,

I don't think I can give specific examples of what you could do.  But I can share what I've learned so far.  Detachment is still new for me, but I'm pleased to see that I can be taught!!!  It takes a long time to re-learn these things, though.  And I back-slide daily.  But those are only moments in time, not disasters at all.

For me it is crucial that I continue to heal myself.  That helps me to have myself to fall back on when it seems like I don't have anyone else. 

It is important to be sure I have the right goals.  If my goal is to "not get in trouble" then I know I am not detached.  Another bad goal is to do something only to prevent someone else from "whining and complaining".  It is not good to do things only in order to show off or make an impression.  Or to make someone else look bad.  All of these goals are goals I have had.  And all of them rely on someone else for "success".

I am not detached if I am worrying or panicking about things that are merely tasks for doing a job.

I am not detached if I think I am the one who is responsible for everything whether it is something good or bad.  My presence or "expertise" is not mandatory.  Other people can step up to the plate.

Hope has talked about SOOOPH--stay out of other people's heads.  As obvious as some agendas are, especially with the Ns, it is very important not to pre-occupy ourselves with what they are thinking and feeling.  Then we make ourselves responsible for something that is not ours!

For me, detachment means turning my attention more to myself and my real responsibilities.  I don't have space in my brain or heart for whatever is going on with the other people who are having a negative impact on me.

I have some really challenging people around me.  I have had more success with detaching from the less challenging people first.  The ones who don't intimidate me or have any real power over me.

Fear attaches us to people.  I have to find out what I am afraid of with some of these people and work on resolving that fear.  Then the detachment, hopefully, will flow naturally.

This is do-able, Poppy.  Give yourself the time and space you need.  Be generous with yourself for any back-sliding.  Every day you can pick up where you left off the last time you worked on detaching.

Love, Pennyplant

PS I'm glad you already figured out about not sharing your feelings with them.  They will use those feelings as contributions to their campaign to assimilate you.  Keep those contributions for yourself.