Caring for others vs. Caretaking

[Poppy Seed]

Anybody ever get these two ideas confused????  One stays inside of boundaries.  One does not.  One helps according to needs and wants.  The other doesn't stop to assess.  I feel like my circumstances and relationships has been one big caretaking mess.  Everyone running around trying to be GOOD or RIGHT or FIX or SAVE with out stopping to see that I was getting trampled in the process!!!

Caretaking makes me feel: weak, invisible, dependent, stupid, defective, needy, doubted, low, embarrassed, humiliated.

Care makes me feel:  valued, independent, included, filled, guided, loved, warmed, admired, respected, important, worthy of attention.


Anybody ever struggle with these concepts?  Sometimes my head understands them but my innards still get fooled or confused.

[Poppy Seed]

Sometimes I feel so programmed to caretake. BLECH!  And I stop myself when I am in that mode now.  I used to be so independent....and so free with my giving.  But, gosh, I bought into my H's fam system hook, line, and sinker.  Now I realize my mistake and am trying to unwind these attitudes and habits.

Sometimes I feel like a caretaker magnet.  And that is repulsive too.

[Certain Hope]

Oh yes, this is my area of expertise.

Caretaking was the only thing that gave me any sense of identity whatsoever, for most of my life.

Its hold on me began to break when the old perfectionism lost its grip (again, due to sheer necessity... I could not do it all).

At this point, I've forsaken caretaking altogether, because I finally recognized how selfish it really was of me to be that way!
I was doing alot of these things for others to soothe myself... despite the fact that it would have been better for them to have to tend to it (whatever it might be) themselves. I love to help others... for no reason other than it's enjoyable. That's cool. But when my own peace of mind is dependent on what someone else does or doesn't do... to the point that I'm willing to do it for them... that's a problem.

My husband has helped me so much with making these changes, as I've recognized that he doesn't care less for me when I do less.
That was a first, for me. Until him, I'd always felt that my entire value was determined by how much I could do for others.
Also, with my children, I see how very much they need to learn to care for themselves, as I never did... so now I do alot less, and teach & guide alot more.

[Poppy Seed]

Yes!  Caretaking is selfish!  Thank you.  And controlling! 

For me, I think I do it prove that I am good, kind, and loving. 

And now I have got to get off my butt and get my daughter over to the school for picture day!!

Chow for now!

[teartracks]

Hi Pops,

This thread is helping me so much.  I haven't known what to call the place I am now with my mom.  About three months ago, I knew I had to detach more from the 'caretaking'.  I wasn't comfortable with the term detached, though I know detachment is part of what I did.  You have helped me understand that I don't care for her any the less, I'm  caring in the way you're explaining which is moving me closer to caring for her from a healthy frame of mind.  I have to tell you though that I'm definitely 'in transition' still.   Thanks for your wisdom.

tt

[Certain Hope]

Pops,

The controlling aspect of it always makes me go fuzzy...

I know that a big part of my old mindset was that if I took good care of others, then they'd take care of me - like buying their reciprocation 
but then with npd-ex, through the 3 years we were married (which seemed like 333), it was much more basic - i.e., if I didn't do all that stuff, then it didn't get done.  Actually, maybe that's a big part of what broke me of it as well... I just plain got worn out.

My mother caretakes select people, but it's so clear with her that she is sure her way is best (actually, the only right way) - and therefore everyone should appreciate and benefit from her way. The caretaking doesn't spring from love, but from a drive to have everything (and everyone) nailed down.
Don't think I ever felt that my way was best or the only way, but I guess the controlling part of it was in trying to ensure a good response from others by being so good, nice, and helpful to them.

Tt, I have felt some guilt as I've narrowed in my circle of control to encompass myself and myself alone.
Of course I still have a couple underage children, so my leadership isn't quite put up on the shelf just yet... but for the most part, I offer suggestions within the established limits and truly release myself from responsibility for outcomes. Those, I pray on. My burden has lightened considerably and an unexpected benefit has been that I find myself far more open to suggestions from others, as a result.
Pretty cool.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Poppy Seed]

Don't think I ever felt that my way was best or the only way, but I guess the controlling part of it was in trying to ensure a good response from others by being so good, nice, and helpful to them.

I felt exactly this way.  I wasn't trying to be right so much as I have been trying get my needs met.  Trying to make everything safe and happy and conflict free.  Trying to take away the scorn I felt.  Controlling by not being myself. 

My husband caretakes without even thinking about it.  It is his default setting.  Of course, his family needed him to play along and play along he did.  I don't think he ever had a minute of trying be RIGHT about the situation.  But that is exactly what he does.  Keeps everyone happy so he can remain safe.  In the process, I have felt myself become more dependant and more needy.  Twisted!  I feel sometimes like I have to be weak for him so he can stay happy.  INSANE!!!

My mother in law helped our family when I was pregnant and in bed for the last trimester.  I struggled so much during that time with physical and emotional pain.  My H was using and hating me.  I was all alone, in my mil's house, and she was getting to mother my kids.  I was in so much denial.  And then I had a c-section.  I was so scared.  The baby didn't look good.  It was so stressful.  Anyway, one day I called my parents to come visit me.  They came and I cried and told my mom how hard it was.   Well, come to find out.  My mil was listening at the door.  And last month, in a not so fun conversation, she revealed her feeling that I was an awful person for inviting my parents to visit that day.  She had done everything for me and how dare I have a terrible time.  It was SOO telling to hear her describe how hurt she was because she couldn't make me happy and how selfish I was for needing someone else's help.  She was going to fix everything ..... even my emotions!  Lately, I have been more observant when I talk to her.  She literally tells me what my feelings are and then rolls her eyes or huffs in disgust when I say how I really feel.  Even if it is about something stupid, like how I like the color red. 

I have also found that caretaking has lost me respect and given people a green light to take advantage.  Some of my relationships have been very unequal this way.  And the friendship I am trying to "buy"  usually eludes me.

Detaching is what sets us free and them free too. Still trying to do that in a lot of my relationships.   I think it frees up the universe to bring us better outcomes than any controlling can bring.  How wonderful it has been in my marriage for the both of us to set each other free and set ourselves free to just feel what we feel and think what we think.  I think we have been on caretaking overload!!!

TT,
I am SOOO in transition too!!  Glad you chimed in!

[axa]

Great Thread Poppy,

Yep, can so much identify with what you are saying.  I am improving on my caretaking issues BUT I am also aware that I am much better at not caretaking when I am NOT in a relationship.  My caretakaing buttons are pressessed mostly by men, you know the type, the ones who can do the lost sad little boy act.  Meeting new people at college has made me quite aware of my caretaking needs.  I have been quite conscious of being helpful to people but asking for something also from them, feels much more balanced.  Also I think people appreciate what you do for them when they make a contribution. 

axa

[Bella_French]

I get a bit fuzzy with this too, but I think I know when I cross the line. A sure sign for me is when I know I'm too busy to do something for another person, and yet I find myself doing it anyway because of guilt or fear. The other thing I do sometimes is reject help when I really could use it, and I think I do it because I think the person will not value me as much.

I guess I'm like you, Carolyn, in that part of me really believes that what is valuable about me to others,  is the care and help I give. That is a difficult idea to shift, because 
I feel that there is an element of truth in this.

X Bella

[Certain Hope]

Good morning, Pops and all 

Here's an excerpt from and article  Over-functioning: A natural pitfall for loving and caring people.

http://www.cbdoyle.com/articles/articleview.php?i=26

Pausing is a powerful antidote for over-functioning.

 The next time you feel yourself getting ready to help someone, stop and take a moment to breathe and reflect. Stop for a moment to give yourself a chance to realize what you’re about to do. Sometimes a pause to ask yourself, “Am I over-functioning here?” is all it takes to help you see you have options. Ask yourself a couple of questions so you can become conscious of what you’re thinking and feeling.
 
1. “In this situation, what’s really MY responsibility?

2. “What am I hoping to accomplish with my actions?

3. “How much have I already done? Am I about to do too much?”

4. “Am I acting out of fear or love?”

5. “What can I do to help myself deal with this situation?”

 
Why would you want to stop over-functioning?
Because it can be exhausting, sometimes creates more problems than it solves, can enable others to continue to avoid their responsibility for their own lives and usually creates relationship stress. (Just to name a few reasons.) When we become aware of this draining behavior, over-functioning can be avoided and we can use our “freed-up” energy to focus on self-care and boundaries-a good thing for everyone.

 

[Hopalong]

Practically scared of this thread.

I just dunno what we expect to do or to be done about caring for those who truly can't care for themselves. I just dunno. Warehousing is cruel and sometimes even the more pleasant institutions are financially out of reach.

Seems to me we need more hippie communes. Or it takes a village, or something.

As fine a source of comfort and community as my church has been, there have been times when even they don't remember that I'm fairly stuck alone with a very old person most days of the week. Or at least, all evenings and weekends. If we didn't have the income for me to have some help, as I do now, I know things would be truly closing in on me.

Anyway, I'm off today to see my birthday girl! She called last night to tell me what she's cooking. Can't wait to get there. And the business part is going to be fun too. There's a huge market where buyers from all over the country go, so you can get wacky with design ideas...lots of fun.

Back Sunday night...and no caretaking in the meantime! I have a lady staying with Mom.

love y'all a lot,
Hops

[lighter]

Have fun Hops, lol!

This thread is so good Poppy!

Thanks for starting it: )

[Poppy Seed]

I have been quite conscious of being helpful to people but asking for something also from them, feels much more balanced.  Also I think people appreciate what you do for them when they make a contribution. 

Axa,

 I haven't quite figured this piece out yet.  Asking for stuff from other people.....hum and Ho......I feel, as others have said, that my value seems to lay in what I can do for them. ( At least in the last 10 years, since my marriage started)  And if they have to give back, then it doesn't work for them.  I feel that in my N fam, my FOO, my marriage and with my closest friends.  And when I do ask for what I need, I am ignored or labeled or cause offense.  I have learned to put my needs away.  I have learned not to ask or have feelings or need more on a particular occasion. 

[lighter]

On that note....

it's so hard to be around normal people for me... and let them volunteer to be helpful and do for me..... bc I'm so busy offering and volunteering myself. 

It's maddening but I'm working on it. 

Relax.... breath.... be still.... smile and pay attention to what they're saying and don't jump all the time and do what I normally do..... things go so much better. 

I can say.... "yes, I'd love to eat a home cooked lunch tomorrow... that's better than my picking up lunch on the way, thanks for offering."

I can say.... "thank you for offering to pick up my child tomorrow.... I appreciate that."  Instead of always being the one to pick up and drop off all the children, always.


So hard to change habits so hard to receive and so hard to ask for help. 

That's not our comfort zone..... but neither is the place where we're always giving and caretaking either: /

[Poppy Seed]

Practically scared of this thread.

I just dunno what we expect to do or to be done about caring for those who truly can't care for themselves. I just dunno. Warehousing is cruel and sometimes even the more pleasant institutions are financially out of reach.

Seems to me we need more hippie communes. Or it takes a village, or something.

As fine a source of comfort and community as my church has been, there have been times when even they don't remember that I'm fairly stuck alone with a very old person most days of the week. Or at least, all evenings and weekends. If we didn't have the income for me to have some help, as I do now, I know things would be truly closing in on me.

Anyway, I'm off today to see my birthday girl! She called last night to tell me what she's cooking. Can't wait to get there. And the business part is going to be fun too. There's a huge market where buyers from all over the country go, so you can get wacky with design ideas...lots of fun.

Back Sunday night...and no caretaking in the meantime! I have a lady staying with Mom.

love y'all a lot,
Hops

Hops,  

What you are engaged in, in my view, is something bigger.....and broader.....than simply "caretaking".  I don't see you crossing boundaries or ignoring wants so you can fulfill your selfish needs.  You are engaged in something far more noble.  To give something to someone else, that they CAN'T do for themselves, is true service.  To offer refuge to a soul who may otherwise be forgotton.   It is a sacrifice of the truest and noblest kind and as you move forward with  balancing your duties with self care, I wonder what beauty your soul is developing within.  Definitely something that transcends this world.

Poppy

PS.  I think you are right about community.  I think our modern culture sometimes fails its seniors.