The Transcendent Child.... book by Lillian Rubin

[Leah]

Personally, my thoughts are that 'The Transcendent Child' book is merely a resource with testimonies of people's life experiences of which one can draw on as a means of external encouragement, and hope.

We must all of us here on board must have a measure of resiliency - else we would not be here!

But what measure of resiliency?

All I can say is that we are unique individuals and that it matters not the measure of resiliency - but that we have it!

The journey is unique to each individual person.

What's the rush?

The best fruit on the tree grows slowly to maturity - and tastes the sweetest!

Personally, unravelling a life time of baggage and exchanging my lot for some semblance of meaning and understanding took an age that was retrospective to my ability, to look at and deal with each item, slowly, one at a time!

It has been three years ......... well spent ....... and invested .... for my future!

Another person I know did it all in less than one year .......... that's okay ...... we're not the same.

Be patient, nurturing and gentle with yourself.

You're worth it!

Love,

Leah



PS ... Resiliency quote:  "What is right with you is more powerful than anything that is wrong with you."

That's why you were never asked the question, "What's right with you" !!

[lighter]

I had enough time to read everyone's posts, but not respond.

Lots to say and will come back with a bit more info about the people in Rubin's book.

I have to say..... I value support groups.... but I wouldn't want to stay in the same place of 'feeling' like I did last year, this time.

I want to move through and beyond.

I want to feel the light and I want to feel warmth... I couldn't sense the heat of a 105 degree floor, lying on it naked .

I can feel now, breath now.... think.  I'm laughin and I wouldn't be laughin if the members here were just validating my pain and not encouraging me.... showing me..... sharing with me how to move through it, which they did.

I think that's what Rubin was talking about. 

Staying mired and identifying with their pain and victim status, rather than finding new paths and joys to explore and take ownership of, though they may never really feel worthy or comfortable in that position, might work for some. 

Not me.


Back to fake it till ya make it? 

Maybe so, I can't really tell for sure tonight.

I certainly didn't see that she minimized healing.

She seemed to be pointing out what she witnessed specifically and identified as keys to transcending.

Her years of experience, including her own years of abuse and struggle to overcome, are as valuable as any, yes?

Even if they don't support everyone' views or journey..... they still have a message.

We can consider it and do with it then use it in part or discard wholesale, as always. 

I do love the conversations though stemming from her book though.

Changing..... all the sudden I'm speechless..... regarding your brother and fractured family.  Just so profoundly sad.... he doesn't have any idea what he's missing, with regard to you.  I can't understand it..... at all.  He separated from the family and never looked back aparently.  Just like in the book.  His way of surviving but..... the cost seems staggering to me. ((((Changing)))) You add meaning, laughter, knowledge and strength to my life...... I wish he could receive those things from you too: /

Going to put babbies in bed.

[sunblue]

Sally:

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words.  I think you very well understand my perspective and comments.  No one wants to stay entrenched in pain or loss but validation is just so important when you've never received any.  I appreciated that you took the time to respond, so thank you.

Changing:

I felt so sad to read what you wrote about your brother.  I can so identify with your situation.  To me, it is just unfathomable to just walk away and not look back.  It is something I am currently struggling with my own brother.  Although he has not totally turned his back on me, he is certainly distancing himself from his whole biological family.  I can't tell you how much that hurts.  It really causes me to wonder how one type of sibling (we sisters) can want and need to have a close relationship with a sibling yet they don't need or want that.  Why don't they? How can they not consider our feelings and needs?  I know this.  It is just incredibly painful to always want and never get.  How do you not take that personally?

As a therapist once told me, it is a hole in your heart that can never truly be filled.  At some point I suppose you just have to busy yourself enough so that it doesn't eat you up alive.  I certainly haven't reached that point yet. 

Changing, I so wish that your brother would reach out to you in some way.  I wish he would show you that he cared about you.  You deserve that.  It's bad enough to lose parents to NPD, but to have to lose siblings as well is so hard.  I really admire you for your attitude about it.  It's just so not fair to you. 

It is just unbelievable to me that a sibling, who has spent presumably at least 18 years of their life with you can suddently turn away from you.  I always think that in this whole entire world you only have a few who you can call your sister or brother.  In my case, only one I can call brother.  How can that be so insignificant to someone?  I just don't get it.  But I respect your healing and your ability to deal with it.  I wish I could accept it like you have.  Hang in there and I hope you at least have other people in your life who can show you care and attention.

[Leah]

Validation

Validation of ones life journey along the stony path was the greatest gift ever to me, as never ever had I received even so much as a tiny droplet.

Indeed, my first thread posting here on this board in January'07 was just that!  Validation.

Still has a wow factor!

Love and encouragement to all you lovely people,

Leah


PS  re: the quote  "the only way is through"  ....... is so true, and it is possible!

[lighter]

Looking back over posts here....with regard to validating feelings.....

I never got the message that we should skip validating feelings from Rubin, or anyone here.

I got the message that we should validate and encourage each other to think about self care too.

Why would it be helpful, to a divorced woman, to belong to a group of other divorced women.... still feeling their pain as fresh and keenly as the day it was wrought with no thought as to paying bills or moving through the pain, even after years of feeling it at the same level? 

Spending time ONLY on validating pain, so it remains fresh, seems counterproductive to me.

In my opinion, we can validate and talk about the logistics of healing and improving our lives.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive and I'm pretty sure, without going back to peek, that Rubin didn't say they were. 

I guess we could ask..... how long is it appropriate to feel the deepest depths of our pain and stay with it, without interruption or any input, aside from validation?

Is that the question?

CB..... I'd love to see that paper on resiliency if you come accross it.  I'll google it when I get a chance, anyway.

I can remember teachers standing out for me, not bc they mentored but bc they asked me to step up to the plate and befriend other students..... to please go and tutor socially challenged children who were struggling.


 Believe me, I wasn't a stellar student I can't imagine being asked to tutor . 

Why me? 

I didn't bother asking.... I helped and I received a different view of myself. 

It certainly took me out of my selfish narrow child's view of the world.  It never occurred to me that Mentally challenged Rhonda F needed a friend.  That socially awkward painfully peculiar Jerry M's life would be impacted forever by the kindness of another student.

I can remember the moment of stopping and turning my head into those thoughts, though they weren't that well thought out. 

It was a lightbulb going off for me.... I wish I could remember more about how I handled the befriending.... I remember tutoring  very well.  How odd I can't remember helping Jerry and Rhonda.  Maybe I didn't.... that would be so sad.

What if I'd had a true mentor?  I didn't even have grandparents after I was 7, not in State anyway. 

I certainly would want them to help expand my horizons.

I never felt validated by the teachers..... I was a very private child.... I never would have asked to be validated.

I see no value in extended validation, if not joined with honesty and encouragment to move beyond our bonds of pain and self doubt. 

I think being challenged and meeting challenges is what makes us survivors? 

Having our pain validated isn't in question, it's necessary. 

I'm not disputing that.

It's to what extent and in exclusion to what, IMO.

 It shouldn't exclude all other input..... that wouldn't be something I can identify with and believe me..... I've heard different versions of "get over it" and "you got yourself into to this, sorry" so I don't think I'm advocating that in any way. 

Acknowledging the trauma over and over, for the purpose of remaining in deep pain, (like the divorced woman in Rubin's example) doesn't appeal to me, never will and, like Rubin, I don't discern any benefit. 

I also have to throw a red flag on the use of the word 'whine.' 

Who's used that word against someone on this board, or in Rubin's book? 

I haven't seen that word used here, but again I don't read every post.







 

[sunblue]

All these posts about validation reminds me of a situation I had with a therapist once.  He wasn't a very empathetic person and wasn't good at validating, even when I told him what I specifically needed.  But one time we were having a conversation about this very topic.  He would acknowledge (rather begrudgingly the abuse or pain I was feeling) but would always follow it with a "but...now what, what are you going to do to move forward, etc, etc."  I stopped him and said Wait, Hold on.  When you always follow the supposed validation with a "but", you are diluting the very effect of the validation.  If you're going to validate, then validate.  Otherwise, it doesn't serve any purpose.  When he said that to me, my first inclination was that A) he didn't really have any interest in validating my feelings, B) he didn't value the process of validation and thus C) he wasn't really "seeing" or understanding the extent of pain and abuse I've experienced. 

I think different people need different levels of validation depending on their experience and where they are at in their healing.  I would suggest that if you have never had any validation, you cannot move forward without receiving it.  Because your family and the Ns in your life have never validated the pain they caused, have never validated you or shown you that you have value, when others fail to do this, it just emphasizes the lack of validation. 

In my own experience, I have found that when I try to explain this issue to someone, their response is something like "Well, of course I recognize that you've gone through a lot of pain and abuse."  My reaction is that "No, it is not obvious to me.  I need someone to SAY it out loud.  I need that empathy, that compassion, that validation expressed in a very verbal way because I never received any in my life.  So, my only assumption could be that the reason I never received it was because I didn't deserve it.  So it becomes really important for others I seek out to validate my experiences in what may seem to them in an obvious way."  THat could be just my own experience.....but inevitably I find that people (like the therapist I mentioned above) want to skip that validation, empathy stage and move right into the "Ok, how can we move you forward" stage.  For me, that stage cannot begin until there is some validation and acknowledgement.  I think empathy (not sympathy) and validation is so critical to someone who has experienced an N relationship.  They feel they have no value.  By refusing to validate what that person has gone through, the devaluation only continues.

I also think some people are better at offering empathy and compassion than others.  My brother who is a black and white, logical sort, is really not capable of it.  He immediately wants to zero in on a plan, "what are you going to do now?" sort of thinking.  I get that.  I think in those terms too.  But I also desperately need the other and when I never get it, it is really hard to move on to the more practical stage.

One last comment.  Different people get different things out of support groups.  I agree that some people depend on them perhaps too much or too long.  But I also think they have a value that nothing else can quite replace.  If you're an alocholic and go to an AA group, you know that those people "get" you in a way that non-alcoholics can't.  Even within that group of alcoholics, individuals are at different stages of healing so they can also help in areas relating to life stages.  How to get back on your feet financially.  How to repair a personal relationship ravaged by the alcohol.  Overall, I think support groups allow you to communicate and learn from people who have uniquely experienced what you have, because the truth is only those who have truly experienced the same things you have can truly understand.  When it comes to the N world, that is just so helpful because NPD is not one of those obvious illnesses.  THe abuse is not always evident to other people.

Anyway, I think people take what they need from support groups and boards and such depending on their own experiences.  I know this board helps me to understand.  I have always tried to help and mentor others in my life and right now and teaching children through my church.  I'm glad to do it.  But sometimes if you've been hurt like we all have, you just need to get something back for yourself.

IMHO

[Ami]

Dear Sun,
  I have two words of advice. You are very smart and very insightful. Use these as a compass in the dark night(if I can be so forward)
  TRUST YOURSELF                                 Love   Ami

[Leah]

Genuine Validation ~ Genuine Empathy ~ Genuine Compassion

Truly are so vitally necessary for us all, each and every one of us, upon every step of the way along our healing journey to wholeness.

And from those who find it hard to give of these precious free gifts - then any measure will do, providing its genuine.

When I first received Validation here on this board, it was like walking on air!

Love,

Leah

[Poppy Seed]

Lighter,

Thanks for this thread.  It really resonates with me.  It makes me more determined.  Really wonderful stuff.

Pops

[Mati]

I was not a resilient child. I think that very early damage is worse to recover from than later damage. If you get some love when very young, you do have a basis to develop from. I don't believe that i had that, being poisoned from mercury before 6 months and rejected by an n  mother who could not cope with a screaming child (central nervous system inflamation) then a break in the bond from a long distance hospital stay.Rejection by the rest of the family followed.

The deep damage can only start to heal imo when there is true and genuinely felt compassion and therefore validation. I did not receive that until this year. I just kept on making mistakes and sticking with toxic relationships till then. Not that I blame them entirely. Someone so damaged is hard to relate to I guess. I was such an emotional mess that I did not know my own mind nor who I was. Even those who were not overtly abusive must have found me hard work. And the ones who were abusive had a field day.

I even gave up not too long ago. That was truly frightening as I am a fighter by nature.

The only way I have survived is through God waiting patiently as I tried to resolve my problems on my own secretly not trusting Him fully, and letting me fall down on my face many times.

Then when I gave up He stepped in.

All of my former relationships have disappeared out of my life even my own children. Even the church i was going to. I see now that it was the only way I could heal in such a deep and profound level although there had been a small amount  healing in the past 3 years since my second marriage broke down. Each loss has been very painful to me.

And now healing is rapid. I am having past abuse revealed to me and it is hard work to work through it and to see how 'blind' I was and how dysfunctional, but each step is more freedom and more clarity and I feel whole at last, filled with peace and joy .

I have never had a mentor or anyone to help. The one counsellor I saw for a year actually caused me harm. I saw another recently and saw she was too clinical. So my healing has occured independent of others. But I did find the support here helped me. I really don't know whether I agree that a mentor will necessarily appear.

I was a hopeless case but God has stepped in and done the necessary. Some might be fortunate enough to have high intelligence and something else to save them. I had none of that but still have overcome. There is hope for all.

[Ami]

Dear Mati,
I am in awe of what you wrote. WHAT a success story------ . I am so,very glad that you are here to inspire and bless all of us.
                                                                   Love   Ami

[lighter]

Sun:  I've found validation here too.  This is a place we can go where people understand.  We connect with certain posters...... some are wonderful at giving empathy and validation..... others are better at coordinating strategies and helping us think ahead at the logistics of healing and recovering our lives.

The Thinkers vs The Feelers?

Maybe.

I think men tend to want to problem solve, as a matter of gender, rather than validate and feel with us. 

LeasRainbow:  You amaze me every time I read your posts.  You're handling your situation so well..... I bet this board did help you a lot.  It helped me too.

Poppy:  Thanks.  I'm enjoying this thread and watching you post about your journey: )

Mati:  Sometimes/usually, I think falling to our lowest depths is exactly how we find God.  Lots of people talk about him, are raised with him, assume they know him....... then they find they had no idea about him till they were gravely ill or giving up. 

You're figuring out what's been happening in your life.  What your part is in it.  How to overcome and stop repeating destructive patterns...... so now.... your life has become an adventure. 

When I think about your infancy..... a dull gray lead's settles in my stomach.  I'm so sorry that happened to you..... every baby deserves a loving parent...mindful care.  You deserved it and you were denied, not bc you weren't lovable but bc your mother couldn't do any better.   She was broken and it wasn't about you.  It was about her and her limitations.

You're worthy and coming to understand what happened and figuring out how to make better choices.  You're a fighter and absolutely have the power, and right, to guide the course your life takes, from here on out. 

I'm so sorry it has to be so hard...... no child deserves the difficulties you've experienced. 

Thank you for sharing your experience on this thread, Mati.

[Poppy Seed]

You're figuring out what's been happening in your life.  What your part is in it.  How to overcome and stop repeating destructive patterns...... so now.... your life has become an adventure. 

I want my life to be an adventure .........not just a disaster area.   


It is an attitude I am practicing............

Poppy

[Mati]

Ami

I just want you to know just how much your continuing words of encouragement mean to me. Thanks. ((((Ami)))))

lighter

Thanks so much for that. Even though we know God we can still continue to work in our own strength until one day we really give it up in a much deeper way than we have ever known. If it is still our own strength then it will be a struggle but when it is all from God it is miraculous.

Yes it is an adventure now. Everything is new and my old patterns have gone for good. It started when I told my minister that I was unhappy that he was invalidating my feelings. This is such a new me that I can hardly believe it! Of course he did a disappearing act and so has everyone else and I am totally alone but I am enjoying it and do not feel lonely at all. How can I be alone when Christ is at my side. Its all about being totally all out for Him and what He wants.

Actually I have had some mentors, just they are dead. It has been through books by writers who taught holiness and this is the key to my healing. When God gives us commands He also gives the means of obeying them when we walk in the Spirit and have crucified the flesh. It is only when we are in this position that we can have total and complete healing. We all have a little place where we have not yet submitted prior to entire sanctification and it is when we submit here that the miracles start.

Mati

[lighter]

Learning to be OK, when we're alone, is very important.

We can't figure out how to GET ok.... until we've sat with the aloneness and moved through it.

Your faith in God is enduring.... just don't forget to have faith in yourself, also.

It's his will that you value yourself and attend to self care.

I share this bc it reminds me of your story with your pastor, where he dissapeared after telling him he was invalidating you.

In a book on faith..... (forget which book now) there was a Nun.  She was the very best Nun, grew up knowing she'd be a Nun and never questioned it.

When she got cancer and found herself in the hospital, dying...... she doubted God's existence and shared her anger about those feelings with the visiting Priests. 

They went away, horrified, and never came back to visit her again.

It was there in that dark lonely angry time...... that she really found God.  She made a connection she never realized she was missing.

For all the years she thought she was in touch..... for all the belief she thought she held..... it was her most down lonely barren moments that lead to the Grace of God. 

This story meant a lot to me. 

I believe it to my bones. 

In the end..... the Nun made peace with God and realized she wasn't alone or frightened.

She died without fear.

The Priests never came back.... and she didn't miss them.