Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you

[gratitude28]

If you can accept that you will never be liked, loved or respected by your N, you can begin your recovery. As long as you have any hope of the N in your life having one of these feelings toward you, you cannot be doing what will ultimately take you out of the poisonous relationship.
Once I accepted this truth, I was able to set the boundaries I needed. I can deal with NM on the level that I need to have a relationship with my dad and have my kids have grandparents in their lives. But I know her real thoughts. And I know anything she says that appears caring is a copy of what she heard from others - on Dr. Phil or Oprah, or read in a magazine.
Do you still hold out hope? If so, you need to think about why and how it is affecting you.
(((((((((((((((Everyone))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

[Ami]

Dear Beth,
  . This is the topic of the day, the hour and the year. Giving up hope is the key to the door to a new life--- the ONLY key that fits.
  Yesterday,I gave up hope. I went furniture shopping  and the ghost of my M was NOT with me( as she always was). I was alone with my own "screwed up" self.
  I am looking at my own'" screwed up self" right now. I guess that this is progress..
  I love this topic.It is so needed--- always.It is always needed as a reminder which door leads in to Hell-- the door of hope with an N mother(or any other N)                  Thanks   Beth .             Love   Ami

[gratitude28]

((((((((((Ami))))))))))
I would love to spend time with your "screwed-up" self. I am betting that you are fun and sweet and your negative thoughts of yourself are those you still hear from tapes. Time to think of yourself as Sweet and Enjoyable, Quirky Ami!!!
Love, Beth

[Ami]

Dear Beth,
  I wanted to add something. I am seeing two worlds now. There is the world of my M.In that world, I am worthless. I should be punished. I am a walking answer to the question,"WHOOO do you think you are?". The answer is that I am a piece of S##T..
  Then, there is the second world where I have eyes, ears and a heart that CAN perceive.Even in two days of separating myself from her,I have seen many truths in life that she "ridiculed " me for. Even in two days,I 'know" truths" about life that she tried to destroy me from finding out.I am learning about having character ,integrity and love from my own eyes. She hated most of all that I wanted to be a person of character like my GM taught me.
  So, these two worlds are totally opposite. I can accept one or the other.
  The "ticket" in to the my M's  world is HOPE.
  I have sold myself  my whole life for HOPE. I wanted a loving ,normal M for my whole life. I twisted so badly that I did have one--- but I had to be emotionally "ill" to live in that fantasy.
  That is the place I am leaving.
  I am in "in between' mans  land. I was in "now where man's " land before. Now, I don't know  exactly who the  I am---but that is progress.                                                     Love   Ami
 

[Ami]

Dear Beth,
  You are so sweet. As I find my own voice,I am getting my precious sense of humor back. I am getting back joys inside that my M stole when she '"ravaged" me so selfishly for her own needs for power.
 Izzy told me to make a list of the good things. I am seeing good things.
   It feels so good to laugh at yourself.It feels so free not to be so ashamed of your shortcomings.It feels good to just be O.K.
  I am getting a glimpse of life as a more 'real" person. What would it be like to simply be an "authentic person" not a "NICE"  person like some canned laughter.
   I am seeing little pieces of my authentic self.I like my authentic self. I really do. It is the false self that is the bummer.
  Thanks again for your sweet "touch" to me. Love You, Beth .            Ami

[Poppy Seed]

If you can accept that you will never be liked, loved or respected by your N, you can begin your recovery. As long as you have any hope of the N in your life having one of these feelings toward you, you cannot be doing what will ultimately take you out of the poisonous relationship.
Once I accepted this truth, I was able to set the boundaries I needed. I can deal with NM on the level that I need to have a relationship with my dad and have my kids have grandparents in their lives. But I know her real thoughts. And I know anything she says that appears caring is a copy of what she heard from others - on Dr. Phil or Oprah, or read in a magazine.
Do you still hold out hope? If so, you need to think about why and how it is affecting you.
(((((((((((((((Everyone))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

I woke up this morning too early because I just couldn't sleep.  And I saw this post.  It is really timely.  I don't think that I have given up hope.  I see the lack of love and the scapegoating (my H had a long and painful discussion with his mother.  she was ruthless when I came up in the conversation) and I am still so suprised at how much it hurts.  

This morning it feels too big and too hard to get myself free.  I can't NC because my H isn't ready for that.  He is coming to his own terms with accepting that he will never get what he needs but he won't be cutting off his family.  So, if I stay with him I am stuck with dealing in this so impossible situation.  So, I figure I better get strong on this issue.  I wish I knew what it was that I was missing.  Why do I get so bent when others see flaws in me?  Why is it so hard to find people who could see me as a whole person...flaws and all......and still find value in knowing me?  Why do I still hope?  Why is this still a crazymaker for me?  

Thanks.  It is good to confront this.

Poppy

[Ami]

Dear Poppy,
 You are talking about a HUGE lesson.Poppy, That is a Ph.d lesson. You will grow slowly and slowly as you face the truth about yourself and your life.PART of that truth is that you are worth so much. Trust me on that until you get it in your heart.               Love to you,dear                     Love Ami

[Poppy Seed]

Ami, (thank you so much for that little bit of love.  I really needed it today)

I gotta say that I am trying so hard.  I am giving everything I have to care for and love myself.  I am afraid that I find it difficult......still......dang it.......to believe my own ideas of worth when so many others seem to ignore me and my feelings and my contributions.  I am so sick and tired of being labeled and ignored because I am not as good or insightful or put together or perfect as the rest.  I don't know why it happens.....it seems to happen everywhere I go.  I DO believe I am of worth but I allow the "evidence" to sway my belief.  I guess that is what I have to confront.  So, I guess I need to figure this one out so I can move on to stronger, surer ground.  I feel that groping feeling.....like I really don't understand what is happening in my brain and don't clearly see yet what I am missing.  I have been reading and trying to see if what other people write will shed light for me....fill in the blank!  Maybe it is that I still want so badly  to be loved by others. And maybe I need to stop that.  Or confront why that is.   I don't even care who they are.....ok....well, not drug dealers  but, it doesn't seem to come very easily for me anywhere I go.......I must be the common denominator.  So, I figure I am a big enough person to be willing to self inventory.  But, what happens is that my entire spirit drops immediately into a depression.  I watch myself do it over and over.  Then I build myself up.  Go out and try again with stronger self, and inevitably the same thing will happen again.  Sometimes, I want to scream will someone love me enough to just tell me what is really wrong with me????? Do I have buggars on my face?  Am I just a total social reject??  I know that the N's see the weaknesses and play on them and even exaggerate them....thus the scapegoating.  I can see all the logic of it out in front of me.  I know what the family is doing to me to make themselves appear like the angels.  I just want to know why it still hurts.  Cause it hurts with them....it hurts here on the board.....it hurts in other quadrants of my life.  So, it clearly IS affecting me.  But I really don't want it to anymore.  Cause N's don't define me!!!    I have got to get a handle on it.  Sound like the answer is loving myself......and believing deeply that I am loveable.  How do you do that when so much evidence in the world points the other way??  How can I get myself to look all the evidence in the face and say that it just isn't true.  That seems like lying to myself.

These are the circular questions I find myself stuck in.  I am trying to see what truths about my life am I not facing?  Maybe that is the bigger question.

Pops

[gratitude28]

Poppy,
When I got sober, I had to figure out WHO I was. It was hard. I thought I would find some great person under the layers of sickness... but what I found was... me. I am the same person as I was drinking. I am the same person as I was when I was voiceless. But now I am able to pin down what I am. I am a collection of parts - good and bad. I can work on the bad ones. I can develop the good ones.
I am... a linguist.
I am... a good mom (and proud and loving).
I am... into sports, but I need to train my body as this was unaccepted for me.
I am... a dog addict.
I am... in love with guinea pigs.
I am... a nice wife, thought grumpy at times.
I am... not a very good housekeeper (but trying).

So... what are you???? These little things ARE you. There is no big answer. But these things have to be what you ARE, not what someone thinks or says you are.

Love, Beth

[Poppy Seed]

Sorry G28.  I hope you will forgive me as I try to talk this out........I hope that is the purpose or invitation of your thread.

I think that what I feel......is that I must believe what others believe.  Or that what others believe must be true. Why do I need to believe that? I argue with it all the time.....defend myself.  But I still believe it.  It kinda lives with the parts of myself that I DO love and casts doubt on them.  Have made my list....a list that looks a lot like yours, G28, that reflects the "mix" of what I am and also the stuff about me that I celebrate.   

I think what happens is that I try to be humble enough to listen to others opinions of me so that I can take that constructively into myself to improve.  The problem with this is that I don't have the internal boundaries yet to filter out the stuff that could be true and the stuff that just plain isn't.  And I also see that if I get cristism, that I beat myself with it.   I don't look at it objectively.  In this way, I think I live in victim mode.  Kind of allowing myself to be at the mercy of opinion.

I am doing something right:  I DO love and like myself (hard as it may be to believe) and accept the human parts in myself.  For some reason, though I allow outside stuff to trump these beliefs.

I suppose that I am engaging in a kind of "agreement" with the N's or anyone who doesn't like me.  I am doing my part at empowering the negative stuff by requiring myself to believe it.  I don't know if I am say that right......not finding the words right now on this idea. 

So, how do I change up how I process this information with  the correct interior boundaries, so that my ship doesn't get so easily sunk??  This must be my next healing step.  I have worked so hard on this....I better get that PhD, Ami!!  Ha!

Thanks for your patience G28.  I really really want to kick this habit!!!
BTW, your last post showed the love you do have for yourself....all the parts!  That feels good to me.

Poppy

[Poppy Seed]

I just wanted to add....that I was feeling low last night and this morning.  But now, I am feeling better.  Like I care less what they think.  I must be thinking a little healthier, eh??   I am going to start my day practicing....... So, ttfn! I am off to preschool!

Pops

[Poppy Seed]

Poppy:

I think we want to believe other's perceptions of us more than our own - because we didn't have the parental reassurance children must have to develop their identity and self-worth. We keep searching for the person who can truly SEE us as we are and accept us and say "it is good".


YES!  Thank you for adding it.  I have thought about this before.  I appreciate you shedding light.  This is SOOO my pattern throughout my life.  So, the answer is that I must now be that person that truly sees me and accepts and appreciates that it is good. 

I am getting it???????????

[Ami]

_{Hey Ami! YOU aren't screwed up - the mask you created to survive your mom is what's screwed up!}


Dear Amber,
   THAT WAS BRILLIANT and even more (for me). I GET IT.    YEAAAAAH
                                                                                                                   Love     Ami

[gratitude28]

Poppy,
Never apologize for working out things here - that's what we are here for. I put in my two cents in hopes that it would make sense for someone else, but I am far from figuring it all out. So far, that is what I see for me...
But I still suffer, too, from an inability to see myself right. I went from being self-assured to being very tentative about myself. I have made one huge step, which is that I have stopped saying sorry for everything in the world... I found out I am not responsible for everything and everyone. But I still tend towards wanting to help out when someone has made a mess...
We are moving forward, Poppy!!!!
Love, Beth

[Poppy Seed]

Beth,

Thanks for the freedom to explore.  I so appreciate your thoughts.  They really validate my strugglings inside -- sometimes the ones I am not so good at expressing.

You are a gentle soul!!

Love Poppy!