Why do I always feel 'other'?

[Ami]

Dear Bella,
 When I read your post,it reminded me of the times that I felt like I "belonged" to myself. When I felt that I belonged to myself,I felt like I belonged with others,in whatever group I happened to be in.
  I think that belonging to ourselves is the root of the larger issue(IMO)    Love    Ami

[JanetLG]

Bella,

The 'belonging in a community' IS something that's becoming more important, I think. We live in a small village that is quite isolating  (I think you have to have been born here, or lived here 300 years, before they think of you as 'one of us'). Most people are 'friendly', but not 'close'. Obviously, I have almost no relatives that I'm in contact with - my Dad, and recently his brother (but only by email), and that's it. My husband's two children are in their late twenties now, so we only see them a couple of times a year - which is OK, they have their own lives to lead.

But working from home does mean we are VERY isolated from all that 'work stuff' that keeps people busy (pub lunches, social evenings, etc - even 'office politics' can be at least something to moan about with other people!).

The church I go to is a good one, but it is very small - about a dozen people on a good day. And I'm about the youngest one there. So there's not much to get involved in, as there isn't the 'critical mass' to make much possible. But I do think it's the likeliest place to make friendships, at the moment. But it does take effort, as you say.

It doesn't help that generally I don't like noisy gatherings, either, and smalltalk drives me crazy.


Leah,

Thanks for thinking of me!

Ami,

Yes, I think that feeling as if you belong to yourself has to come first, and then feeling like you belong with others follows much more easily.


Janet

[enough]

yikes!
you've described a lot of my feelings perfectly!
in my FOO, my parents had eachother, my younger brothers (7 & 9 years younger than me, 2 years age difference between them) had eachother, and i was alone.

i, too, am self employed, childless, vegetarian, don't drink.  also i'm gay. yup i feel quite 'other'. oh and now i'm also a minority among people i know in that i no longer have a relationship with my FOO.

its hard, sometimes, but i've always been really independent (had to be, what with my N parents !!) so i'm OK with it, for the most part.

stay strong~you'll be alright!~

[JanetLG]

Enough,

Thanks so much for your post.

Most of the time, I'm OK with my choices. It's just when I'm 'triggered' by events like the one with the minister from the 'Church Where Women Have to be Men' that I get set off!

I'd forgotten to include myself in the 'minority group' of 'women who don't speak to their FOO'. That's quite a no-no, isn't it? Usually guarantees a shocked silence, then a 'Well, I could NEVER do that to MY family!!!!!' kind of response.

The response I give now is along the lines of 'Well, I'm glad you don't understand, because that means that you didn't have to go through what I did'.

I think that if I work on the idea of self-nurturing more, and self-validation, and all the other 'self' things that got squashed out of me by my NMum, I'll be a lot happier for it!



Janet

[Hopalong]

Janet, Enough...

I remember when I was freelancing for very long periods, the sense of isolation got profound. And I'm in a small but sociable city. I'd be thinking, alone, all day to do my work...and it became too natural. I think isolation can breed more isolation. Wonderful at times, but for me, a danger zone.

Janet, I think your response is perfect. Compassionate to others while asserting your right to your own experience at the same time. Great remark.

Hops

[Bella_French]

Bella,

The 'belonging in a community' IS something that's becoming more important, I think. We live in a small village that is quite isolating  (I think you have to have been born here, or lived here 300 years, before they think of you as 'one of us'). Most people are 'friendly', but not 'close'. Obviously, I have almost no relatives that I'm in contact with - my Dad, and recently his brother (but only by email), and that's it. My husband's two children are in their late twenties now, so we only see them a couple of times a year - which is OK, they have their own lives to lead.

But working from home does mean we are VERY isolated from all that 'work stuff' that keeps people busy (pub lunches, social evenings, etc - even 'office politics' can be at least something to moan about with other people!).

The church I go to is a good one, but it is very small - about a dozen people on a good day. And I'm about the youngest one there. So there's not much to get involved in, as there isn't the 'critical mass' to make much possible. But I do think it's the likeliest place to make friendships, at the moment. But it does take effort, as you say.

It doesn't help that generally I don't like noisy gatherings, either, and smalltalk drives me crazy.


Janet

Dear Janet,

That does sound like a very difficult situation to work with, in terms of the limited options in your town. I can see why the priest's behavior would have hurt so much, as the Church group is perhaps the only real community that seems viable to you right now. And he kind of `stole' that from you in a way, through his sexist language, and then failing to address how alienating that can feel to a woman . Its exactly the sort of thing that would hurt me too, Janet, so I can understand completely. Sadly, Christian religion is so traditional and it is based on patricachy, which probably suited the political and cultural climate 2000 years ago. It may be one of things you'll need to `swallow' in order to cope with the positive aspects of the community, although i know that is so hard to do.

 I have the same `gulf' in my life, but it kind of helps that I live in a city (although I hate cities, lol). I have been thinking a lot about this during the year, and I think i have found something which will suit me. I am thinking of  joining  our wild-life caring program in our area. It is a community of people who rescue injured wild-life and rehabilitate them. The group can do a variety of classes to gain basic qualifications is caring for native animals, and there are regular meetings. i am also part of a birding group along with my father, which I would like to get a lot more involved with over time. Right now I contribute photos and information about local birds and bird watching spots. The more active members (like my father)  travel a lot to do bird counts and protect local habitats. He's actually in the Toress Straight Islands right now, with a group who are studying wader populations.

In any case, i know how you feel. It is really is such a  different life being at home, and not having family around. But please keep thinking on it; I'm sure you will wrk through this. It sounds liek it needs your attention.

Love and hugs to you!

X bella

[betr4]

I am learning to let go of foo, as painful as that has been for me, it is the only way I can move on and be the person I want to be.
The next step for me is to detach from a nh who can't see me for the person I am, only the person he needs me to be to enable his disorder. 
Getting support from healthy support groups and relating in healthy ways has helped me to let go of the feeling left out or different.
When my aunt way dying, we became close and with the absence of other family members to distort and cause problems, we were able to develop a loving relationship that helped me become part of her life in ways I would have never dreamed.  She was the mother I never had and I was the daughter she mnever had.  Because the other family members were not able to care or show concern, my aunt and I were left alone to be together and that was the greatest gift they could have given us.
I know that now,  even though at first I could not see why they closed her out and left us to deal with her illness alone.  In the end it was indeed a blessing.  I see my life as the same. When the wrong ones go away I am left right where I need to be.  It sometimes takes me a while to see it that way.  I was taught to think I was being left out.
Sometimes being left out is a blessing.
BR.

[Hopalong]

Dear BR,

What a wise and luminous post.

Thank you.
I'm really glad you're here.

Hops

[changing]

Hi Janet-

This is not my area of expertise (I may not have an area really), but in my humble opinion, you are a true artist, whose very nature is one of leading the way, being ahead of the zeitgeist, and seeing the microcosyms and macrocosyms of the world with a unique vision and clarity. This is your gift and your curse.I am cloddish and an outsider from society by virtue of my rejection by my FOO. It is different for you.You are an Artist and as such must express your individual truth and may not always be understood or appreciated by those who are more prosaic. But you are charged with the sacred task of bringing new light to mankind (even if we are too stupid to appreciate it) and to show a new path.

You are also a lovely and adorable person and a good friend and I hope that you will always be happy just as you are!!

Love,

Changing

[JanetLG]

Hops,

Thanks for validating me re. working at home being isolating. I know that that is part of the problem. To be homest, I would hate to 'go out' to work now - it's so flexible to be at home all day - but it does have its own problems, which don't often get talked about.

Bella,

I am working on trying to find some kind of group to join - possibly the charity where I sponsor the two children, as they always need what they call 'advocates', who are trained volunteers to go to various events and have stands at shows, etc, to try to get more sponsors. I think I'd be good at that, as I think the charity is great, and I can do 'selling' face-to-face.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in my earlier post, but the sexist minister was from another denomination - an Evangelical  (quite extreme) Christian church, but in the same town as the church I go to. I just thought I'd look through their website to see if they had a good site, info-wise, as me and my husband are overhauling the website of our own church, and we're on the lookout for things to put on it. The attitude of that minister was a shock to me, but I know that most Christian churches have such a strong patriarchal attitude, it amazes me how many women are willing to attend them and not feel completely ignored/oppressed. It took me years to get round to actually going to a church, because of the sexist attitudes that I knew were endemic. That's why I was so pleased when I found out about the Unitarian Church, as it is so different, despite being what we call 'liberal Christian'. More than half the ministers are women (they've had female ministers for over 100 years), they use gender-neutral language as much as possible, they are tolerant of other religions (we often have readings from other religions, as well as poetry, literature, newspapers, etc). It's more like a meeting for deep-thinkers than 'just' a church, sometimes! And out minister is lovely - the phrase he uses most often is 'you make up your own mind - we're not going to force you to believe anything!'. That's so different from most churches.

betr4,

You were very lucky to have a close relationship with your aunt - it sounds like you both helped each other a  lot.

" I see my life as the same. When the wrong ones go away I am left right where I need to be.  It sometimes takes me a while to see it that way.  I was taught to think I was being left out.
Sometimes being left out is a blessing."

Thanks for that bit - if only I can see it more like this, more of the time, I think that will be very helpful.

Changing,

You are so sweet. Your post made me cry. That you can take time out when you have so much on your plate right now to post something like that is just wonderful.

I must admit I don't like to think of myself as an Artist (or even an artist without the capital 'A'), because I don't think I'm any good. What I do is just 'the thing that I do'.

I don't think you're cloddish at all. And you're going to make a great lawyer.


Janet

[Leah]

When the wrong ones go away I am left right where I need to be.  It sometimes takes me a while to see it that way.  I was taught to think I was being left out.

Sometimes being left out is a blessing.

BR.

Hello BR

Absolutely!

Through the pain shines a light with a blessing, and indeed, it is very much "Being left out"

Like Hops said, I am glad you are here.

Love

Leah

[Leah]

Janet,

As I mentioned earlier, regarding the website where you heard the sermon, if the minister had have known his Greek, then he would have chosen his address, as he preached his sermon, as 'Children of God'.

The minister's reply with his statement to you "That they don't take themselves that seriously"  in my view, just about sums it up!    But I would add that it may be in the publics interest if he were to add that statement to his church website .... in doing so, may prevent unnecessary angst for unsuspecting souls entering into his so called evangelical church.  How can such a minister, or any minister, who does not take himself seriously possibly have a hope of "evangelising?!" 

He certainly did not catch you in his fishing net!!

The real truth is, having spent several years researching the early church, and the patriarchal system, and also in addition, the history of the church to present day ...... Woman being treated as they have been in the past, and are being treated in present day - in any church system --- is a Big Lie! 

And unbelievably, the proof is in the early church patriarchs writings!!

No, I am not an active 'feminist' (as I have been branded - another minority label enrobed upon me!)

Just a person who happens to have been born of God as a woman -- of worth, with dignity, who has a right to seek the truth, and to know the truth.

I don't have a denominational label --- but rather, truthfully refer myself as a believing Christian.

The nearest label I would think would be a 'thinking' 'non-conformist' if a label is deemed as necessary.

The problem with 'religion' to be honest is that it is too manmade.

My life history affirms my genuine love for people as individuals; regardless of nationality, 'religion', doctrine, colour, race etc.

N's and toxic people --- are my only stumbling block in life. 


Hope you have a great day Janet and it truly is a blessing to know you.

Love

Leah


'God says that we are to love one another - thats good enough for me'   

[JanetLG]

Leah,

That's a good suggestion about the sexist minister adding a 'disclaimer' to the website so that possible 'newcomers' like me might be forewarned! I'm not going to let him off the hook too easily, even though he refuses to email me back - I'm going to write to the church, and hope that a different person gets to read the letter, outlining my experience, to see what response I get that way (the sexist minister is the webnmaster, unfortunately, so he can 'lock the gates' on me if I try to communicate via email).

It's ironic that he washed his hands of me so fast, isn't it? Obviously, they don't want questioning types in their church...which is worrying, as their congregation is about 600, according to the website.

I know that the history of the Christian church is fraught with patriarchal sexism. Can you recommend any books I could read, though, about how the early church was altered? I have tried looking online, but whenever I search, the titles that come up always seem to be justifying the current state of things, and the subversive stuff can't be found. I'd like to be better informed about it, really.

I am not an 'active feminist', either. But the term 'feminist' has become so maligned, now, that it is difficult to define feminism anyway, these days. Any woman who tries to get fair treatment for herself or other women is 'branded' a feminist, as if she's a witch or something. And don't get me started on the way so-called 'witches' were treated...!

When I have been tracing my family history, I have been really surprised by the number of times I have found relatives (especially on my Dad's side) who were non-conformists of one kind or another. Baptists, Zionists, Congregationalists...some of them so far back, they must have been so determined to live their truth, as it was dangerous to 'come out' with opposing views in those days. So, some of my 'being different' is genetic, I think.

Thanks for your posts - they are really helpful to me, and it's great to know you, too!


Janet

[Hopalong]

Hi Janet,

You might find a lot of interesting material here...(particularly thru links at the end):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_feminism

hugs
Hops

[Leah]

Hi Janet,

Just got back in, so have not been ignoring your post - will post a couple of superb books for you.

Smiling here 


Hi Hops,

Perused your link to wikipedia re:Christian Feminists ....... "not another label enrobement says I ?!"  whilst smiling 


Feel I wish to labour the point that I am in no way a Christian Feminist --- but rather, a woman who has a right to the truth

which is ..... God created Man (Adam) and Woman (Eve) EQUAL - to rule together, alongside one another, helping one another.


Had a great afternoon out and about in a 'community role'


Love & Hugs,

Leah (who wishes to remain 'labelless' !)


... God says we are to love one another --- that will do for me