Author Topic: Why do I always feel 'other'?  (Read 7715 times)

JanetLG

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Why do I always feel 'other'?
« on: October 24, 2007, 09:29:12 AM »
This is a complicated issue for me, so I'll try to explain it without writing a book.....

I always seem to be in a minority, whatever I do. I know that in my FOO that this kept happening - there was my dad and my brother as one 'group', and there was my mum and sister as another 'group'. Sometimes, both the groups merged for a whole, but I always felt an outsider.

As I've got older, I seem to revisit this over and over again. I find myself in the minority, and it is very upsetting. I don't know if I'm 'choosing' this, or if it more the case that it just occurs sometimes, and I don't handle it well when it does happen.

For instance, I have no children, so I am in a minority of about 20% of women.

I am self-employed, so I am in a minority of about 15% of working people.

I work from home, so people who 'go out' to work see me as 'different', and people who are homemakers see me as 'working', so I fit in with neither group.

I see myself as Christian, and go to church, so in the UK that puts me in a minority of about 8% of adults. But I go to a Unitarian church, which is absolutely tiny in terms of congregation size (about 5000 people in the UK). So, non-religious people see me as different, and 'traditional' Christians see me as different, too (even 'non-Christian', by some standards).

There are loads of other situations/choices, but these are the main ones.

The thing is, why does it get to me so much? Why aren't I confident enough to just make my choices, and be happy with them? Does it all come down to lack of self-esteem? Am I rebelling subconsciously, in everything I choose? Am I sabotaging myself, before anyone else has the chance to do it?

Dunno.

Anybody else know?


Janet




gratitude28

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 09:45:15 AM »
Janet,
I struggled (and still do) with this for so long. I think it was because we were always placed outside of the circle of our family. I was always painted as the "different" one growing up. They still count my sister as part of "them" and me as outside - because of where I live, the music I like, the movies I watch - anything they can dream up.
I think all people are so individual that it is impossible to ever be in a majority. And any of the majorities I see, I am not sure I would want to be part of anymore. I am also unemployed right now (that has been hard on me). I speak a language that is not mainstream. I have a dog that is not mainstream. I have children who like school - a child told my daughter that was 'uncool.' My husband is a Marine - a small group there. I live in a small community. I do not drink as I am an alcoholic.I could go on and on. .I really do embrace my life now, as much as I can. I go to parties and don't drink - many get uncomfortable with this. I don't care if others do, we even have it in our house, but they can be strange about it.
I think it is all about becoming comfortable with who you are and waht is important to you. It is like Lupita asked about groups. Any normal person feels uncomfortable when first encountering a group, I believe. To become comfortable, you find a person or two to focus on and share with and that created a nice spot for you. I think life is about carving out those spots. Does this make any sense?
I get nervous when I think of vast ideas - like the endless universe. It scares me. The fact that the sun will blow up in a few million years. Those are huge ideas. So if I come back down to earth and look around me instead, I stay a bit more grounded and a heck of a lot more settled.
(((((((((((((Janet)))))))))))
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Ami

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 09:48:26 AM »
Dear Janet,
  Thank you for having the courage to broach this topic.I see it as a "cousin" of shame. Shame tells us that we are only O.K. if we "belong". However, WHERE is it that we are "supposed" to belong?
  Like everything else about shame---it is a lie. It is a lie that we are only worth s/thing if we are in this group or that group.
 I have found that WHEN I got in to the "group", the shame never left.It even got "worse" b/c I tried to heal from the outside and I failed ,once again.
  I think that was a big reason WHY I 'gave up". I had belonged to all the "groups' that I was supposed to and I still felt awful inside-- even worse as each "group" failed me.
  I did all the things that were supposed to make me "whole' and I was more and more fragmented.
  I guess it is the lesson of the 'outside" will not heal or fill the inside.
 I look at Bill Clinton( not a political statement)He achieved it all. He seems  like it is never enough. He seems like he is STILL looking for what will make him finally be O.K.
  i think that our O.K.place is in our own hearts( and with God)
  This is a wonderful topic.    Love  You        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Leah

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 10:02:25 AM »
Dear ((( JanetLG )))

Personally, I can relate to what you are saying, with genuine empathy.

Funnily enough, just recently, I have been writing my personal journal under the heading "Always Looking in From the Outside"

>   And I became self-employed a few years ago and thereby entering into a new minority situation!


Sorry, JanetLG, but I am not much help as I don't as yet have any helpful thoughts at this stage --- hoping to though.   :)


Looking forward to many insightful and meaningful postings on your most poignant thread JanetLG.

Love & Hugs,

Leah


Edited for very personal reasons
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 05:22:56 PM by LeahsRainbow »
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JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 10:28:19 AM »
Thank you, people!

Beth - I forgot about the fact that I don't drink, and I'm vegetarian, too. They are two BIG subjects that can cause disagreement when you first meet people - they often seem to find those topics intimidating.

And I know that FOO can always dream up even more ways that we don't fit in with them (not that we'd want to, often).

Ami - yes, it is very similar to the 'shame' ideas that have been discussed on here recently. I 'know' (superficially) that being part of this group or that group shouldn't make a difference, but it bothers me that it still DOES make a difference.

Shunned - Thanks for your comments. I try to see my uniqueness as something positive. But when I get a big black mood come over me, all that disappears. This last one just took me over completely for about two days, and I couldn't do anything except sit in a corner and cry, and wait for it to pass. Interestingly, what got me out of it (as well as emailing someone who really understands me) was sorting out some photos of relatives that I've unearthed while doing family history research - some of the pictures date from the 1850's. They cheered me up, because they gave me a sense of 'connectedness' that I don't often have.

Leah - I often feel that I am 'looking in from the outside'. In social situations, that can often be tangible. It's almost an 'out of the body' experience, it's so uncomfortable! Your comments ARE helpful, because now I know it's not just me!


Janet

JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 11:12:32 AM »
Leah,

I think that family history research is possibly one of those things that recovering N-survivors should HAVE to do, as it puts a lot of it all into perspective - what do you think? I have unearthed some strange stuff, such as, I reckon the N behaviour on my NMum's side goes back at least to the 1850's. And my passion for embroidery and dressmaking can be traced back, on several lines of my tree, though tailors, milliners, embroiderers and carpet weavers, to about 1750. Weird stuff!

Ami,

This link between feeling 'other' and shame is important.

What started this latest 'dark mood' was that I was surfing and found the website of a church near the one I go to, which had recordings of their sermons online. So, I started listening to one called 'No shame' (how relevant!).

But, ten minutes into it, the minister started to say that peole shouldn't be ashamed about spreading the Gospel, because we are all 'sons of God'. He kept on repeating that phrase - 'sons of God'. And it just upset me so much. Because at least half of his congregaryion were female, and I am female, and yet we have to listen to someone (male) saying 'we' are something that we can never be - a male child. Why couldn't he have said 'children of God'? Would that have been so difficult? By using language that women can't relate to, that kind of behaviour *causes* feelings of shame.

So, I emailed him, and told him that, and asked him why he chose to exclude women in the language that he used. And I got this defensive email back, saying that in their church, it 'simply wasn't an issue', and that they 'don't take themselves that seriously'. I asked again why can't he bring himself to be more inclusive, and call his congregation 'children of God', but he answered that email by just saying 'thanks for your comments', and now he won't reply at all.

It just really annoyed me that I was seen as 'other', outside, not important enough to be addressed directly, a 'failed man' kind of person. Usually, I can ignore idiotic language like that, but it just got to me.


Janet

Leah

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 11:25:55 AM »

Janet,

Just picking up on the minister re: 'Sons of God', as written in scripture, it is collectively inclusive.

If the minister had have known his Greek, then he would have chosen his address, as he preached his sermon, as 'Children of God'


Another exclusion for me is:

>   Went to Bible College and studied Theology -- so as to enable right understanding and can't be fobbed off with error!

>   Henceforth, my credentials are not accepted by man.  (no surprise really)


Going back to the minister and his statement to you "that they don't take themselves that seriously"

in my view, just about sums it up!   :)


Love,

Leah

« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 11:28:42 AM by LeahsRainbow »
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JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 11:36:46 AM »
Thanks, Leah!

My 'Bible theory ' is shaky, as I've only been going to church for almost a year, but 'inside myself' I know what FEELS right, and his response just smacked of defensive masculinist rhetoric, to me. Our minister would never be so awful, fortunately.


Janet

cats paw

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 12:03:44 PM »
Hi Janet,

  Great topic, and I have felt this way frequently in my life, and have been feeling that way recently on the board.

  So hold up everyone, it's not because of anyone on the board- well, unless it's because of your kindness when I posted a while back about my mother.  A lot of times, such kindness overwhelms me and I need to draw back.  I also sometimes need to get a bit of distance from a situation when it's going on, which is a fledgling response.  I have distracted my self in unhealthy ways in the past, including endless rumination, so that is why I say this conscious distancing is new for me.

  When my H and I were first dating, he told me I was weird, but a really good weird.  I need to find my way back to the person I was then.  I think that woman is still there.  I've just not let her look in the mirror for so long, that she's a bit miffed with my surprise that she has aged over these past ten years.

  I remember how Kelly said she feels overwhelmed by the volume of posts.  That makes me feel "other" also, when I have not kept up.  That is generated by my own self-criticalness, however.  I see how everyone is ok with people when they come and go, and I don't think bad thoughts about others when they don't post for a while.

  My H doesn't drink at all (is an alcoholic) and I will rarely have one of those dessert-y ice cream after dinner concoctions on special occasions.   Too bad there aren't non- smoking bars around!  I did learn to shoot pool a long time ago, because when I used to go to bars with my deceased H, I got bored.  That is something I kind of miss sometimes.  We live in a small town, and the bars are what they always were years ago.  We'd be ok with the alcohol in a place, but not the smoking, and not the atmosphere after the patrons inevitably imbibe their usual quotas.

  Just wanted to post as an act of coming out of self-imposed exile.  I need to run and get some paint for my husband's bathroom in his garage.  He's put up a very large garage in addition to our original one, and he's deliriously happy to have a man-space. He's asked me to help "decorate", so I'm having fun making it masculine.

 This is a good thread, I like everyone's comments, and those are interesting questions at the end of your post, Janet.

  Here's to everyone's uniqueness!

cats paw

sally

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 12:07:58 PM »
Hi Janet,

what a great topic and such great responses.  Funny, I was just contemplating this topic this morning.

I agree that we were molded & conditioned to feel like outsiders.  I think it's greatly due to how we were treated on our foo.  Yes, I think we were made to feel like an outsider in our foo or our extended family & shame makes us feel like we don't deserve to belong.  Yes, that feeling that we are always looking from the outside in and we want to be part of something, but are prevented from doing so.  Yes, it may also be partly genetic.

For me, my parents always, always repeated to me "don't follow the crowd".  Well, I absorbed that message to the max, so much so, that at times, I'm almost in isolation.

But,Janet, let me ask you this?  Are you happy w/ some of the choices you made which leave you from outside of the group?  Like working for yourself and being a vegetarian?

If you want to join a group, are there some groups you can join, groups in which you feel comfortable?

The irony for me is that when I have joined groups, I found some I didn't enjoy, so I dropped out & wound up groupless again.

For me, it's hard to find a group I want to join and it's painful to be rejected from a group that I wanted to join or remain in.

The thing is, why does it get to me so much? Why aren't I confident enough to just make my choices, and be happy with them?

I am going to sound like a broken record with my co-dependency stuff, but, here goes:

Why does it get to you & why do you not feel confident enough w/ yr choices:
Perhaps you are looking for validation from "a group" to validate your choices.  Perhaps you are not validating your own choices, because you are not validating yourself.

So it seems to me, the questions are: Why are you not validating your own choices?  Why are you not validating yourself?  Are you seeking validation from others?  Seeking validation from "a group"?

Love,
sally

Ami

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 12:16:07 PM »

I am going to sound like a broken record with my co-dependency stuff, but, here goes:

Why does it get to you & why do you not feel confident enough w/ yr choices:
Perhaps you are looking for validation from "a group" to validate your choices.  Perhaps you are not validating your own choices, because you are not validating yourself.

So it seems to me, the questions are: Why are you not validating your own choices?  Why are you not validating yourself?  Are you seeking validation from others?  Seeking validation from "a group"


Sally's answer ,for me.IS the answer to the question. The answer is within our own perception of ourselves,but we have transferred it 'outside" ourselves. Codependency rears its ugly snake like head again  It sure can disguise itself in so many ways.
  Sally, thank you so much for your profound,but simple answer.                   Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 12:23:18 PM »
Cats Paw,

I understand what you mean about feeling a bit 'other' when you don't post for a while, even though people on here are very understanding about the flowing in/flowing out that people have to do, when they just have to get on with their lives for a bit.


Sally,

I think you've hit on something important, there. It's not necessarily that I don't belong, but that I feel I don't DESERVE to belong. And that bit DEFINITELY comes from my FOO (NMum, almost exclusively).

Some of my choices I am very happy about, like the vegetarianism, and the self-employment. But I do hate having to justify it to others, just the same. It's like when I tell people that I have NC with my mother. Difficult! :shock:

I do find it very hard to validate myself. If you gave me two choices for spending the day - doing what you want, with you, or doing what I want, I'd do whatever you wanted, every time. I have trouble doing what Ami is struggling with - nurturing myself (although I'm working on it  :) )

I do tend to feel that groups 'push me away' when it might be that I don't 'push myself in'. It just seems to be a pattern that is becoming more and more set as I get older, and it bugs me! The rejection (or perceived rejection) is hurtful, so I withdraw.


Janet


sally

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 01:05:49 PM »
Janet,

that I feel I don't DESERVE to belong. And that bit DEFINITELY comes from my FOO (NMum, almost exclusively).

Ok, good, you have identified a major source of this feeling:  You feel you don't deserve it.  To me, when we feel we don't DESERVE things, the source sounds like toxic foo shame.  I think your NM conveyed the negative message to you that you were/are 'a bad little girl & you don't deserve ANYTHING'!  This negative message caused you to feel shamed.

Perhaps do some work on this shame.  I love John Bradshaw.  I'm going to paste some stuff I wrote about shame in another thread:

Here's some thoughts about unhealthy toxic shame based on books I read by John Bradshaw: Eventually,you will see that it is not your shame, but rather someone placed the shame on you.  It's someone else's shame (most likely your parents' shame because we are not born with shame; someone has to place shame on us).  So, people projected shame upon us and we absorbed the shame like a sponge and consequently, we mistakenly believed that it is our inherent shame, but it's not.  Feeling shame is carrying someone else's emotional baggage.  Unfortunately, this shame is handed down from one generation to the next and it's so old, no one really knows where it originated.  It's like free floating shame.

But I do hate having to justify it to others, just the same. It's like when I tell people that I have NC with my mother.

Janet, you do NOT have to justify any of YOUR PERSONAL CHOICES TO ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF.  I suppose this is the essence of what it means to validate ourselves and not seek validation from other people.  As children, we were under the thumb, the servitude of our N parents and so we could never validate ourselves.  In order to survive, we could only be validated by our N parents.

Problem is that now we are adults and we have the power to validate our selves, but the N damage has stolen our ability to validate ourselves.  So, we need to re-claim our ability & power to self validate and we must chuck out our automatic reaction to seek validation from other poeple or groups.

Id do whatever you wanted, every time. I have trouble doing what Ami is struggling with - nurturing myself (although I'm working on it

Janet, it's sooo good that you are aware of this, because I think awareness is half the battle.  Yes, keep working on it. 

Nurturing ourselves:  This is probably one of the BEST things we can do in life, because if we don't nurture ourselves, we starve ourselves almost to the point that there is no more self left.  The self vanishes.  Wow, Janet, funny connection:  I recall you had an eating disorder & I am connecting lack of self nurture with eating disorders:  I think they both can kill us, spiritually &/or physically.

I do tend to feel that groups 'push me away' when it might be that I don't 'push myself in'.

Janet, I feel this way too, but as I feel this, I ask myself (redundantly):  Is this an issue of not validaing myself & seeking external validation from others?  If I want to join a group, then I can't let fear & shame prevent me from taking action to join.  If the group rejects me, well, that is part of life and, then ask myself: Did I do something to cuz the group/person to reject me (own my responsibilty) and/or is the group/person Nish?

And, I'd ask myslf: have I worked on giving myself (self nurture!!) enough POSITIVE AFFIRMATIONS (replace negative foo messages w/ positive affirmations), so that if I am REJECTED, I know I'm not destroyed, I can live & still be happy, whether or not I find a group/person I like because the UNIVERSE is loving & accepting of me & I am part of the universe? (these are positive self affirmations which have replaced the old negative foo messages)  This last part is also a  bit  of zen thinking.

Ami, thank you for your kind words.

Love,
sally



« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 01:19:58 PM by sally »

JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 01:25:11 PM »
Sally,

Thanks for all that.

With some of my NMum's projected *guilt*, I WAS able to hand it back to her, because I eventually believed it rightfully belonged with her (she had me lie to my dad to cover up her affairs when I was a teenager). But the idea of the *shame* of not being deserving enough to have ANYTHING... that one hasn't been dealt with.

The 'nurturing myself' idea is doubly hard when, as you've said, I had anorexia for years, which is non-nurturing taken to the extreme (although, interestingly, as soon as I left home and got away from my NMum's clutches, I put on weight like nobody's business, until I was a normal weight after a year, with no weight problems after that, ever).

I think that awareness of any of this stuff is always a big step in the right direction, then it just needs practice, practice, practice!


Janet

JanetLG

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Re: Why do I always feel 'other'?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 01:30:27 PM »
Leah,

The most recent time I was explaining that I don't see my NMum was when I visited my homeopath. As usual, I was a bit sheepish about explaining about it, but she just said 'Oh, you too? Mine's schizophrenic and mad as a hatter. Haven't seen her for eight years. How long is it with you? Don't they just drive you up the wall?' She was so 'normal' about it, it was great!


Janet