Author Topic: Delusions? Unbelievable Story  (Read 6393 times)

tayana

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 01:41:43 PM »
Ami, my mom would never really discuss sex, she would just make an inappropriate joke or comment at times.  She never, ever discussed bodily changes, relationships, dating, or birth control with me.  In fact her comment when she found out I was pregnant was, "What about all that birth control we talked about?"  What talk?  We didn't talk.  She handed me a book and told me I could ask questions, but when I asked then she was mad that I asked.  She considered it inappropriate.  My "sex ed" came from books, movies, and my father's porn magazines. 

I have never seen her be truly affectionate with my father.  She might give him a kiss on the cheek, but that's it.  I never saw or heard them having sex.  I told him once I was amazed he'd been able to have kids because she was such a prude.  I think my dad had more of a healthy sense of physical expression at one time, but I'm sure they haven't actually had a sexual relationship for the last twenty years or longer.

Any time my mother saw me have a healthy expression of sexuality, whether it was a question, or reading erotica or whatever, she would jump down my throat or else tell me stories to keep me from the activity.  She actually told me a story about a woman who's batteries corroded in her vibrator . . . well, it was pretty gross.  I was just stunned.
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wiltay

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 02:57:48 PM »
Tayana, IME your M's paranoia is not unusual for an N.  Paranoia about other people conspiring against them is common for a control freak.  It seems  bizarre and incredible and totally delusional when it happens but it seems to go with the N territory.  One example, I used to play hearts with a major N ("E") and sometimes when the cards weren't going his way he would suddenly stand up and slam his cards down on the table, fly into a rage and accuse the rest of us of the most incredible conspiracies, including stacking the deck against him and passing notes under the table, all while he was sitting right there!  Of course we were doing nothing of the kind, he was just getting lousy cards.  He must have gotten extremely anxious and angry as he felt things slipping out of his control  and so he invented an explanation (something to blame) in order to regain some sense of control. That's MY theory anyway. We were just flabbergasted.  It happened on several different occasions.  He is not psychotic.  But if you think about it, all Ns are fundamentally delusional, it's part of their everyday makeup. 

Bill

Gaining Strength

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 06:12:53 PM »
Tayana - That is truly a story from the nuthouse.  It is more than bizarre.  I am glad for you that you were not at the flea market and can stand back and see how insanely twisted and deranged the whole situation is.

You said, "Bean, normal people think I'm being cruel because I'm not speaking to her.  They think I'm the one being petty.  That I'm punishing my mother."  I have learned, and have seen others here write in many different ways how sad and alienating it is that others simply don't understand.  It is not an insignificant problem.  As a teenager my friends would role their eyes when I complained and that simply confirmed my greatest fear - that the real problem was me.  And so for 30 or 40 years I believed that the real problem in my family and in my life was me.  Well it wasn't - my parents did incredibly bizarre things but they were all so subtle. 

Well your mother's insanity is not subtle anymore.  And if so called "normal" people don't get it I suggest you learn to talk only to people who might understand.  Your brother understands.  Most people here understand and you may have a few others who understand. 

I've never understood why people don't take what we say happens in our families for face value but they don't and it is harmful and painful and alienating.

I am sorry about that terrible experience for you but it is one thing that makes your mother's behavior obviously off the charts.

your friend - GS

tayana

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 11:34:37 PM »
GS, thank you.  It's so bizarre, because this is odd even for her.   My brother says it's time we got all of it out in the open, and our father needs to decide if he's going to choose my mom or have a relationship with M and me.  I don't think he can have it both ways.

Bill, my mother thinks everyone hates her and is out to hurt her.  Her behavior is totally irrational and erratic.  I wasn't sure if this is an N thing or if she's finally lost it.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

wiltay

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 02:54:17 AM »
Tayana, I think her behavior is very N-ish, everything you say about her.  From the way you describe her she is extremely controlling of everyone and everything and that is what an N is all about, IMO. That defines them better than any other single thing I would say.  They need to feel in charge and on top of everything at all times or they lose it.  She's seems to be feeling really out of control and scared right now for some reason and her behavior will be completely off the map and paranoid until she feels more secure again. Something triggered it, because it doesn't happen out of the blue for no reason.  Whatever it was is probably something that wouldn't even phase YOU, but it's a major deal for her.  I'm sure you must know what many of her triggers are by now. 

    If you can stand it, let her get back in the drivers seat, feel in charge again and she'll start to chill out.  Let her have her way in all things.  My sister is very much like her.  You have to see how deeply insecure she is and how afraid (the last thing she will show however) when she's so wacko. Unfortunately, about the only way to deal with an N that goes off the deep end is to give them everything they want and don't fight with them at all.  Easier said than done,  esp. when you are probably already completely fed up with her controlling ways.  Good luck Tayana, I know what you have to deal with, because I've been there many times with my S.   Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to take my own advice (I lose my temper) but I'm getting better.  Anyway, that's my advice, use it if it fits.

Bill

tayana

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 09:50:26 AM »
Bill, the reason she is so out of control is because I moved and I've limited the amount of time she can spend with my son.  She is very controlling of everyone and everything.  She's upset because I let my son go to 5th grade camp, which was a great experience for him, but something she would never approve of.  She doesn't believe my son should be outside, playing, getting dirty or any of the things 10 year old boys do.

I don't intend to let her get back in control.  I'm tired of this game.  I'm tired of being the one who always has to make sacrifices, while she never tries.  My mental health suffers too much when I let her in my life.  She won't respect any boundaries I set.  I say, "don't call me at work."  So she'll call four or five times. 

I wish things could be different.  I really do.  Thank  you for the advice.  Maybe when I talk to my father, things will get better, but I don't think it will.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Hopalong

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 03:47:09 PM »
I have to respectfully disagree, Bill.

Tayana's heroic journey has been toward 9 days of NO CONTACT.
NOT letting her mother have things her way...
(I do remember reading Vaknin's description of how to have a relationship with an N you still want contact with, and that was a great sardonic description...but I took it as tongue in cheek...)

That's why her NM is cracking. And it's just as it should be.
This is how the universe responds.

Tay, keep it up!

Hops
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wiltay

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 03:49:14 PM »
Tayana, I understand how totally, completely unfair and unbalanced the situation with your M is, it is the same with all Ns. You hate to give into them because they already take so much and give so little.  But for your own sake you have to find a way to manage her so she doesn't damage you anymore.  She will always be aggravating no matter what but she will lose her power to upset you in any big way. Much of the solution is to get a handle your own voicelessness issues in general and also the way you're enmeshed with her.  She's not respecting your boundaries(or anyone else's!) because you're still ALLOWING her to violate them (inside your own head!--it's how YOU feel--nothing to do with her) and I believe the reason might be (it is for me) is that you get too emotionally wound up (enmeshed) and outraged and angry with the unfairness of it all and you let it get to you personally. You CAN'T take it personally! Number one rule. You get all wound up and tangled up in your own stuff and get upset when you just need to step way back mentally and emotionally from this person. 

    Getting you (and everyone else) upset is a BIG part of her power trip and her controlling ways!  It's like having the remote control to the tv--push a few well-known buttons and off they go!  What power!  It's pure heaven for an N (or any young child) to manipulate people this way.  You have to start thinking of her not as your M, but as the insecure, fearful 3 year old (brat?) that she truly is when she is causing you grief.  A strange thing to do with your own parent, but IMO that is the fundamental reality of the situation with any N.  Know that you are dealing with a difficult baby, not an adult and you will know what to do and she will not be able to push your buttons anymore.  Treat her like the baby she is.  That's what I meant by giving her what she wants to calm her down and get her off the psyche ward.  Now you're influencing HER behavior, instead of the reverse. It DOES work.  The hardest part is shifting your own paradigm.  Again, take what you can use, discard what doesn't fit.  This is so helpful for ME to talk about these issues and I sincerely hope you gain from it too.

Bill

Ami

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 04:52:51 PM »
Dear Bill,
 Your description of the N once again"forces" me to drop my "illusions" about my M. Why do I want to hang on to these illusions?
  I think that I figured it out with the help of my dear friend Amber. After the illusions are gone--I am alone.I  did not want to face that I was alone.
  Her voice in my head kept me from facing this. I wasn't alone when I had her voice in my head. I had her personality traits,too.,like fear and indecision.
  Although I didn't like them, they kept me company.I didn't have to be alone and face the world with my own eyes , wits and perception.I had ready made software.
  .It was always me, but I hid behind the 'craziness" as a blanket.
 I think that Amber's quest for her true self prompted me to shed  some of these layers of lies .It is a very freaky feeling.
I am glad that I have all of you to help me go through it  .             Love,     Ami
 
 

 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

wiltay

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2007, 05:18:17 PM »
I agree with you Hops. The entire object is getting mental and emotional distance from the toxic person so they can't upset you and if the only way you can do that is NC that is necessary and essential.  Unmeshing yourself from a toxic person requires a basic grounding in your own voicelessness first and being around an N who WANTS you to be voiceless is the last thing you need when you are fully enmeshed, esp. with the parent who taught you how to be voiceless in the first place! 

     I also agree that the most likely reason why Tay's M is 'cracking up' is because her controlling ways are not working so well anymore, for whatever reason.  That reason could very well be Tays NC stance!   But I would also advise not to take the cracking up too seriously.  I think it's far more likely to be more desperate manipulation than an incipient psychotic break.  Ns  just love to be the stars (e.g. tragic victim) in their own self-created dramas!  (I think you might be seeing some compassion for Ns seeping out of me at times.  They truly are trapped in their house of mirrors and can't find the exit.  They are far less likely IMO to find any real peace or real satisfaction in life than us Vs.  I'm actually beginning to feel that I've got the better deal).

Bill

Hopalong

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2007, 05:45:54 PM »
Claro, Bill, claro...

I love your image of the Nparent as a big destructive baby. And you're right. When we do the mind-flip and understand that WE are the adult and THEY are (genuinely...no matter the adult clothes or occupation) an arrested child...it's so much easier.

I value your thoughtful posts.

hugs
Hops
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sunblue

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2007, 06:21:40 PM »
Hi Tayana:

I'm so sorry to hear about your emotional struggles with your controlling Nmom.  I think we all here can identify with those struggles and certainly empathize.

In my opinion, the most important thing would be to protect your child.  Unfortunately, unless it is stopped in its tracks by a self-aware person in the family (in your case, it would be you), NPD in families continues from generation to generation.  It's one thing to struggle with your own issues with her.  That is painful and difficult and ongong.  However, I would make sure she is not able to influence your child in the same way she has done with you.  Contact the school and make sure your son isn't put in the middle by being forced to take phone calls from your mom or unexpected visits without your specific approval.  The last thing you want, I'm sure is to see this cycle of pain and damage to continue with your own son.  If your Nmom refuses to listen to you in this regard, you need to be agressive and take the necessary steps to ensure your little one isn't placed in an uncomfortable position. It would also be a way to exert your power of control and boundaries. 

Just a thought.

wiltay

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2007, 06:52:08 PM »
Ami, I think you have to 'divorce' your mother in some way.   Divorce your hope for some kind of  reconciliation that isn't possible?  When you are able to do this I think your true self will be right there, waiting for you, completely intact.  I sense this strongly.  Maybe the hangup is the conflict between the love you feel for her (I think you must) and the way she is?  Impossible to reconcile and impossible to move on from until you do.   I can only relate my own experience and that's how it's been for me.  There is a real person trapped deep inside of her which you can see and love, but what comes out instead is someone who is very twisted and does very unloving things and calls into question love itself. Such a person justifiably inspires anger and hate and damages your own ability to love. But that person caught behind the smoke and mirrors is real and so is their love for you, it's just that you'll never ever see them in person because they are lost in the maze.   And it's not at all your fault.  It's not even her fault.  Just something to roll around under your tongue and see if it has any taste.

Bill

 

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2007, 06:55:59 PM »
My moms delusions are that she rewrites history.  She conveniently forgets what she said, denies that she says it and upsets the apple cart.  If you can prove she said it then she simply says she did not mean it.  There have been a couple times that I have wanted to jump across her desk and choke her right then and there!  My rage has gotten the best of me and I have had at least one snap in my life where the absurdity got me!
Kelly

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Leah

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Re: Delusions? Unbelievable Story
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2007, 07:54:24 PM »
Dear Bill,

Thankful for your astute postings.  Most welcome and very much appreciated.


My NMother behaved the same (just the norm!).

Divorcing myself from my NMother has been the best course of action that I have ever taken, as was NO CONTACT and maintaining No Contact.

My emotional and physical health has improved dramatically.


They truly are trapped in their house of mirrors and can't find the exit.  They are far less likely IMO to find any real peace or real satisfaction in life than us Vs.  I'm actually beginning to feel that I've got the better deal).

Yes, they are trapped souls who can't find peace or any satisfaction in life.  And I do feel sorry for them, truly I do (from a distance).

We truly have got the better deal haven't we.


It's not easy Tay.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Love

Leah
« Last Edit: October 26, 2007, 08:01:26 PM by LeahsRainbow »
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