narcissists and Meyers/Briggs personality type?

[mighty mouse]

My parents had a narcissistic family set up and even though I am not ready to label my Mom as having NPD, I do know for sure that my younger sister has NPD.

She is also an INFP personality type. And it seems that there are similarities to her personality type and her NPD.  

Does anybody have any thoughts or done any research on a possible correlation? Or maybe a predisposition. Or even where I could find out more information regarding a possible link.

Thanks for any input.

Moighty Mouse

[Tokyojim]

I have studied and had experience with the Myers-Briggs, and do not see how NPD would fit in.  However, you might want to look at the Enneagram.  It is a system that is similar in that it types by certain dimensions.  Within each personality type, the person can tend toward a healthy, average, or unhealthy direction.  It is very specific about two types that if they continue to go into the unhealthy direction, they can result in NPD (or other dysfunctions).  I like it because it recognizes this tendencies of these types without using labels.  It also describes the healthy attributes of each personality and what each should be cautious of and strive for.  In other words, catch pathology before it gets out of control.  It is also useful and understanding the motivations, fears, and desires of the NPD.

[Anonymous]

I have studied and had experience with the Myers-Briggs, and do not see how NPD would fit in.  However, you might want to look at the Enneagram.  It is a system that is similar in that it types by certain dimensions.  Within each personality type, the person can tend toward a healthy, average, or unhealthy direction.  

I have scant experience of the Enneagram. But I'll look into it.

But I have read the David Kiersey book "Please Understand Me" in which he describes the NF personality types as being irascable, leaning towards romanticism and fantasy and being easily offended. Some of the same traits as people with NPD. Kiersey also said something about the INFP personality type getting better with age and being more fully integrated in their forties. And Sam Vadkin (sp?) mentioned that sometimes people with NPD will get better in their forties.

In my sisters case, I just thought she was a very unhappy INFP. But after much reading, she has classic NPD. BTW, I think INFPs are supposed to be very nice people, so no offense to any INFPs. My sister is very destructive and thinks she is very benign and wants everyone to protect her in a childlike way. She takes offense extremely easily and sends off vitriolic emails and stalks people. Whew. I had to ignore her for a whole year before she quit sending me emails, snail mail and I had to block her phone number from my phone.....a regular campaign of terror.

Anyway, thanks for the input!

Mighty Mouse

[Anonymous]

Yow!

I'm not really an expert in personality types, although I have read a bunch about it.  I am an INFP, sensitive, etc. but not N (at least I hope not).   In other words, not all INFPs are N and not all Ns are INFPs.  Many are LOUD and BOISTEROUS.  The key ingredient to Nness is lack of empathy.  Your sister could have another PD that coexists with N.  You may want to visit bdpcentral to see if any of that information fits your experiences with your sister.  I don't think personality types explain stalking.  

I would ignore anything Sam Vaknin has to say unless it is verified somewhere else...IMHO.

Hope this is useful.  Just had to reply, being an INFP!  But don't worry, I am not offended (I wished my smilies still worked...).  Take care, Seeker

[Anonymous]

hi - i don't think any particular Myers-Briggs type would be more likely to be an N than another.  i'm also an INFP (and not an N, i hope) - my Nmother is an ESTJ.

i do think that the Myers-Briggs might tell you something about how your N operates.  i'm sure that an N INFP would display, in general, different behaviors than an N ESTJ.

[mighty mouse]

Hi All,

Since there are a couple of INFPs who've responded, I just wonder how my sister can talk about the Dali Lama and spirituality one minute and be on a Narcissisitc tear a moment later? This seems like such a dichotomy. It is indeed very confusing.

And that begs the question....can someone with NPD actually be truly spiritual? I mean she has tried to ruin the careers of several professors in various universities she's been at (she got kicked out of Harvard for her behavior). But she thinks she's the victim.

Just a couple of abstract thoughts to ponder.

And Seeker....I agree with you on old SAM. I've wondered about him because he's obviously made a cottage industry out of his NPD. But a few things he's said have resonated with me especially regarding my sis.

Mighty Mouse

[Tokyojim]

My seriously NPD friend of 40 years very frequently talks about "spirituality" in the classic N manner, and I think it is probably very typical.

When he can get N supply directly from people, especially women, the talk about spirituality suddenly stops.  He even makes fun of it.  Then, when the N supply runs out and he feels isolated and depressed, spirituality is considered.  And it is a way, I believe, to feel superior in his own mind because he either says directly or infers that he has special spiritual insights that few people have.  And he also tells me that I am just on a spiritual path.  No matter what I am considering or doing, it is this "spiritual path."  With the spirituality, he now can be omnipotent, direct my life, and see how people around him are so empty and inferior.

In short, I think the N's spirituality is another tool for supply.

[Anonymous]

...I just wonder how my sister can talk about the Dali Lama and spirituality one minute and be on a Narcissisitc tear a moment later? This seems like such a dichotomy. It is indeed very confusing.

This is called "splitting." It's a psychological defense used by everyone. But when it's this extreme, it's a huge problem to interact with this person. It makes it nearly impossible.

And that begs the question....can someone with NPD actually be truly spiritual? I mean she has tried to ruin the careers of several professors in various universities she's been at (she got kicked out of Harvard for her behavior). But she thinks she's the victim.

Anyone who aggressively sets out to destroy another person is not spiritual.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I agree that the spiritualism seems to be typical of Ns (not necessarily INFPs).  Used as a way to have superior knowledge of a higher power to wield over others.

I'm a non-religious INFP.  My mother, an ESTJ N, consults fortunetellers, astrologists and palm readers and believes she has been visited by the holy ghost.

[mighty mouse]

Hi Bunny,

It's funny (ironic), but my sister would never describe herself as aggresive. And she doesn't think she's done anything to the people she has affected. She absolutely thinks she is the victim.

She has been at various times on an e-mail campaign that she can't seem to control (this is if you offend her.....actually if SHE perceives offense or if you try put boundries in place) and won't or can't control herself.

I guess this could either be NPD or BPD. Someone suggested I go to the BPDcentral and it does describe her very well. But one thing she does very well is try to shame people. She used this on a professor that is married when he tried to break her email campaign. He also thought she was suicidal and talked to her boss. She shamed the heck out of him and as far as I know he is still emeshed in an email relationship with her even though he has at times ask her to quit. I think he's afraid of her. But she thinks this guy is her great friend. I guess he's just another Nsupply for her. Poor guy.

If you asked her, she says her letters say how she is childlike, naive and needs to be protected. She thinks all these guys (one was her advisor)are in love with her and are going to ruin her career. And she's pleading with them to stop. Stop doing "what" she is never concrete about.

It is so interesting that she thinks she is so benign and kind hearted and spiritual. It just floors me. But I guess this is a case of someone lacking empathy.

And Tokyojim. Yes, she does think she's above the fray with her supposed spirituality. And sometimes she can be almost eloquent to the point where you think she is spiritual. And the INFP personality type is supposed to be very spiritual. There's just such a chasm between how she perceives herself and how she treats others. It's rather alarming. But she is extremely intelligent and somewhat functional in her peer group so she gets away with stuff.

Mighty Mouse

[mighty mouse]

Guest,

I had to LOL at your N being visited by the holy ghost!!!!!

Sheesh.

M. Mouse

[Anonymous]

I guess this could either be NPD or BPD. Someone suggested I go to the BPDcentral and it does describe her very well. But one thing she does very well is try to shame people.

BPD and NPD can coexist in one person. And she may be bipolar.

I think she not only lacks empathy, but she doesn't sound grounded in reality (i.e., delusional).

My take on it is that she has some psychiatric problems. I hope she gets help. But the main thing is for you to protect yourself as you've been doing.

bunny

[mighty mouse]

I think she not only lacks empathy, but she doesn't sound grounded in reality (i.e., delusional).

My take on it is that she has some psychiatric problems. I hope she gets help. But the main thing is for you to protect yourself as you've been doing.

bunny[/quote]

I have tried to urge her toward help, but she doesn't think she needs help. And of course it is easier for her to blame and project on everyone else. It really is sad....I accept her for what she is. But that doesn't mean I want anything to do with her. She is just too destructive.

[shixie]

This is an interesting article titled Narcissism goes to Church.

http://www.pressiechurch.org/Theol_2/narcissism_goes_to_church.htm

[cplummer]

Stacey,
I just browsed the article.  It really is sad, but tru in so many modern churches today.  You don't hav eto answer this, but I'm just wondering if you are a believer in God.  Faith is something I am so struggling with right now.  But I'm still so compelled to believe.