Author Topic: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it  (Read 11133 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2007, 10:10:27 AM »
Confounded,
You sound as though you're maybe feeling the shock of having bumped into some deep incompatibility.
There's little ease and flow between you...so all these strategies are needed so you won't be eternally angry, but they leave you eternally on edge.

Is that an approximation?

I am very sorry you're living with such tension.
Have you thought about some counseling, getting some help with communication?

hugs
Hops

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axa

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2007, 02:46:18 PM »
Confounded,

What you write about is scaringly familiar to me.  XN was extremely clever intellectually but what I came to realise was that he just did not get conversation or discussion.  I like to discuss issues be they personal or otherwise.  I enjoy hearing disenting voices, others opinions, having dialogue and either affirming my own thinking or changing my perspective........... there was no way XN could enter into this form of dialogue.  Well, why would he he was always right.  He just did not get it!  If I had a differing opinion he would get so mad he would use sarcasm or off the wall statements to frustrate me and I think this was a big part of the game: frustration.   For all his intellect and letters after his name he was at a human level a deeply boring person to be around.  I told him this once and the shock nearly knocked him for six, how could the omnipotent one be boring but he just was.  In the end I gave up trying to have conversations with him and put my energy into people who were adult enough to have respectful discussions.  I guess this is not too helpful but it brought back  many frustrating memories for me.

Axa

Confounded

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2007, 01:39:24 AM »
Thank you all.  It's hard for me to make sense of it too.  I find myself searching for one phrase that I can carry with me, like a shield. 

Quote
another one that just jumps out at me is that Ns like to confuse, baffle, shock...anything to draw some attention to themselves

I think they get a weird rush or sense of power from making people feel off-kilter

Your experiences are VERY helpful to me.  I am getting a definite feel for his need to destabilize me.  He can't dominate me as he did his first wife.  But he can upset me.  "A sense of power from making people feel off-kilter."  The control.  He wants that more than he wants the admiration.  Plus, I think he knows that the admiration will not be forthcoming.  That must sting like crazy.  Okay.  I get it.  Aggravating people is a way to control them.     

Quote
You sound as though you're maybe feeling the shock of having bumped into some deep incompatibility.
There's little ease and flow between you...so all these strategies are needed so you won't be eternally angry, but they leave you eternally on edge.

Is that an approximation?

I am very sorry you're living with such tension.
Have you thought about some counseling, getting some help with communication?

I often feel my heart racing.  I just want to keep him at arm's length and not get hurt anymore.  If I'm not at all depressed, I really notice it and I'm soooo thankful.  When we have periods of happiness now, I rarely get away from the feeling that his anger and my pain will be back, it's just a matter of time.  It feels as if knowing that tinges my happiness, and yet I feel that if I forget it I am setting myself up to fall farther.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  Fool me 2,876 times, what the h*ll is my problem?

I dread working on projects with him.  If we plan to work together on something, I will wake up that morning feeling completely stressed.  It will be endless disagreement.  I want to be done ASAP and get it 90% to 100% right.  He just wants to be done, right, wrong or otherwise.  Quality?  Who cares.  He says I'm "anal" "don't have my priorities straight" "need a correction" "move at a glacial pace" - it goes on and on.  We waste so much time, we could have been done much sooner. 

On a fundamental level, and on a fairly frequent basis, I just don't like him.  His complaining about doing projects around the house, his picky eating (eats only meat, refined starch, fat, and very basic salad and fruit), his foolish statements (however they are motivated), his childish rage, and lack of appreciation for the life of the mind, all result in a growing feeling of disquietude within me.  He seems as if he's pretending to be a man.  His hair is graying.  But inside he seems to be very childish.  That's NOT manly, and it's NOT sexy.   

We have been to three counselors.  Sometimes the last two counselors looked at him as if they were thinking, "Are you SERIOUS?!?" (One even said it once.)  With counseling and court-ordered anger management classes he did get much better at controlling his anger.  He still rages over seemingly little things (sometimes he is so easily angered that it's actually sort of funny).  But even though he rages, he knows that he'd better not lay a finger on me, and he doesn't.  I guess I should be happy about this wonderful progress.  But mainly I find myself feeling that accepting his marriage proposal after 5 weeks of dating on the assumption that he understood me was the worst assumption I ever made, and wondering if eHarmony would have worked better for me (we met on Match.com).

I am so bored, so disappointed, so tired of this, and so sad.  Spending more of my time with others is a help.  I usually work out of my home, and that's terrible for me.  Sometimes I wonder if a radical change in other aspects of my life would make a big enough difference.  I constantly hear from other women that their husbands or their marriages are just awful.  Perhaps this is just par for the course.  My Grandmother used to say, "If you get rid of one man, and get another man, you just trade one set of problems for another set of problems."

changing

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2007, 03:26:05 AM »
Hi Confounded-

When I read your posts on this thread I get a stomach churning sense of familiarity. My NH also has a disturbed, almost addled aspect when he is engaged in torturing me. Once he brought the police to my home on a false pretext, and just watched impassively from across the street. The next day he popped by and cheerily gabbed about finally finding a cell phone that worked, with this disgusting smile and wide faux innocent eyes- totally incongruous and quite creepy! When I asked him to leave and mentioned what had occurred the day before he said that yesterday is over- we won't talk of that again, etc. This is a very educated and supposedly intelligent man. I think he returned to my house for much the same reason that arsonists and serial killers return to the scene of their crimes- to relive the high, get a whiff of the victim, the power of violating and controlling another.  When I think about NH Bagworm I am anxious for my freedom now this instant-I hate the waiting period for divorce!!!!

Keep hanging in there Confounded!

Love and Peace,

changing

axa

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2007, 07:23:14 AM »
Confounded,

It is very sad when you start to take off the rose tinted glasses and begin to see the truth. I guess I would suggest you start to think/write about what is good in the relationship and what is not.  Think back to the person you were before or when he just met you, what's changed.  You sound like you are guarded and on alert all the time......... this is how I lived also.  I know you will find the best way for you but having left xn a year ago my one regret is that I did not leave him sooner. 

The more aware I became of his Nism the worse he got.  It became like a game.  I deeply, deeply regret not getting out sooner, like I had to see how bad he would become before I could leave.  The people I engage with now are like the people I used to know before XN.  They are respectful, adult, interesting, not abusive.  None of them have met XN but I know they would be shocked that I was with someone so horrible.  I guess what I am saying is that I lost my way when I got sucked into the madness of XN and his games but now that I am back in the real world it feels so much better.

axa

reallyME

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2007, 08:38:46 AM »
Confounded, I think axa gave you good advice...in fact, here, I'll start ya
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out...

axa: Think back to the person you were before or when he just met you, what's changed. 


In my case, X was a she.  Before I met her, I was very into singing worship at church, helping people become free from evil spirits (deliverance and inner healing)...I was happy, bold, courageous, felt very good about life and people for the most part.

X taught me to believe that my voice was not as good as some other people, taught me to be more self-conscious in a bad way, told me to stop doing deliverance ministry because she didn't do it the way I did, taught me that people who had mental and emotional problems were not worth her/my time, and were just there to drain me.

Currently, I am not actively doing the deliverance and inner healng ministry, find it very hard to want to sing or play my keyboard anymore, am not quite so bold as I was, pretty much try to not tangle with people, except one on one.  I picked up a very critical spirit toward people who can't spell, don't use proper grammar, have emotional and mental issues...in short, the very people I used to MINISTER TO, I now have very big RESTENTMENT issues with, no thanks to involvement with X.

I also had a friend which X "stole" from me and then later did the same things to her...she went through a time thinking she couldn't sing, didnt' know how to minister, was bad at everything.  Because I had gone through it before her, I knew the signs, and was able to help her overcome the self-condemnation it caused her. (I still miss this friend a lot, but we've parted now)

Ok, Confounded...your turn if you choose...who were you before/during/after X

changing

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2007, 10:52:01 AM »
Dear Confounded-

Work on yourself, take especial good care of yourself, and in the meantime calmly meditate on the NH issues. Get your own position fortified (of course do not anounce this to your NH) - as you become stronger and in a better position, calmer and more centered, your "gut" as Ami says, will be a great freind and advisor as to your next indictaed step!


Love,

Changing

Changing

Confounded

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2007, 01:10:23 PM »
Thank you.

My life seems to be slipping by, and I worry that I will get to the end and regret my choices.  I was given so much, yet I have never really been happy on an ongoing basis.  My N mom taught me nothing about how to deal with difficult people.  She and now H shock me, hook me, and I respond.  Sometimes I am hurt, as an adult more often an angry b*tch, like her. 

Once I got away from my N mom, eventually, I learned that I could serve in the role of The Brain, and that gave me a reason to be.  I felt good about myself largely because of my work.  I think that my choice to become a realtor failed utterly to take into account my need to work in an office and have positive long-term relationships with coworkers.  I work alone now, mainly from home, and given my situation with my Nish H, it's not good for me.  When I do go into my office, it's not the same as working within a company.  My colleagues are also my competition.  There's little teamwork.  It's every person for him or her self. 

This puts my fragile marriage under even more pressure.  I guess that I should cut myself some slack.  When I decided to become a realtor, H hadn't been diagnosed yet.  The term "narcissistic tendencies" meant nothing to me.  In July of 2006, NH decided to stop going to our 2nd counselor.  I went to our appointment alone and asked "What IS this?  This inability to ever admit a mistake, even when it's obvious?"  The counselor laid it on me.  "He has narcissistic tendencies."  I had to be told what that was all about.  The counselor stressed the fact that narcissistic rage was very dangerous.  I know that he thought I should leave H.  H's anger is only emotionally dangerous now, and less so all the time, as I pull away from the fire emotionally.  Observing him when he's angry, I am stunned by his lack of dignity.  I feel sorry for him.     

Sometimes I think that even though this is hard and sometimes painful, H is exactly the right person for me, because he is forcing me to learn and mature in areas that should have been completed long before now.  I have to lead our family, and if I lead in the wrong direction, that's where we go.  I said something to H recently about God putting us together for our personal growth.  H said, "No.  If God had wanted us to be together, He would have given me a remote control for your mouth."  I actually felt as if he had stabbed me in the heart.  But really they're just words, and borne of the fact that H sees no reason for any personal growth on his part.  That's part of the diagnosis.  I need to keep my own counsel.  It is an unpleasant but real fact that H will never be able to be a true confidant to me.  There will always be a barrier between us, and any lapse on my part into thinking that it can be otherwise is just a pipe dream.   

H has told me a hundred times not to listen to what he says, and not to be hurt by his statements.  I have stopped having any serious arguments with him.  I'm not going to argue with somebody who doesn't remember what he has said a large percentage of the time, and recants what he says, with the explanation that he didn't mean it, he was just mad, another large percentage of the time.  He is not a serious person when he's agitated, and he gets agitated soooo easily.  It's actually pretty funny sometimes, although watching my husband act like a lunatic isn't exactly my most preferred activity.  (Bummer...)   

Suddenly, I feel so much older.  I just hope that I can keep this level of perspective.  I am not diversified enough in my personal and work contacts.  It's just too much Nish stuff and too little good stuff.  I have to get another job.  I sent out one resume recently, and 12 hours later I was asked to come in and interview for a very good job.  But the location wasn't what I need.  Point is, I was in demand.  Sometimes I feel reluctant to reach out to the world, and pour myself into a job search.  In part, I feel slightly weakened by H's endless criticism.  But I also feel that I don't want to get a high paying job because that's what H wants from me.  So I would hurt myself to deny him what he demands?  This is not good.

Must stay centered, stay focused, be active, not reactive.  Must not allow myself to be pulled off-kilter.  Must stop this cycle.  My life is my own.  I want to stay in my own Zen space.  I'm a can do person.  I can do this. 

Thank you all for your help.  Be happy.  The world can be a crazy place, but we don't have to let the craziness in.  We can filter out the bad.  The light of God's love shines on us, and we can reflect that light to others.  Love and peace to you all.

reallyME

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2007, 02:54:42 PM »
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Confounded:  I went to our appointment alone and asked "What IS this?  This inability to ever admit a mistake, even when it's obvious?"  The counselor laid it on me.  "He has narcissistic tendencies." 

I experienced this again this morning with my H.

He tends to stop on green lights, sit there a few seconds and then drives.  When I say to him "the light is green, why are you stopping?" his response is always to give me a reason why he does it.  He can never just accept that what he does is WRONG, STRANGE, STUPID, or whatever.

So, his response is "oh.  I was waiting for that semi to turn."  (semi is car-lengths ahead of us), or "I was pumping the brakes"  (pumping required repeated pressure, not pedal to the medal on the brake)  or "I didn't stop on the green light..."  "YES YOU DID"  "no, um oh, I was anticipating it being about to turn red."  (it had JUST TURNED GREEN!)

see what I mean?  he is NEVER WRONG ...cannot allow himself to even FEEL what WRONG feels like.  The blame for things is always put on either another circumstance outside himself, another person, me...but NEVER HIMSELF.

This has been a problem even when we listen to marriage tapes or read books together, because he always notices what MY FLAWS are, but his, he will justify, give a reason for, or blame me for.

It is dreadfully FRUSTRATING to live with someone like that, who cannot seem to be willing to accept that he is less than perfect and is a human being.

Confounded

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 03:28:32 PM »
Straight from the Misery Loves Company Department:

reallyME, as horrible as it is to experience this, and I much as I would NEVER wish it on another human being, I am very happy to have your company.  Just knowing that I am not alone, that I didn't pick the only person among the 3+ billion men on Earth with this particular variety of madness, makes me feel soooo much better.  Thank you.

I hope this may come as good news to you.  Beware though.  I think it's also the bad news.  I'm am quite sure that it is completely involuntary and that they cannot do a darned thing about it.  The shrink told me that N's don't change. 

I am happy to report that fear of the long arm of the law has changed my H's thinking about whether it's okay to hurt one's wife.  No more of that, unless one allows oneself to be hurt by his words and behavior, which I still do, unfortunately.  For about a year I felt constant fear of physical danger.  So, to the extent that the elimination of that threat is change, then N's can change.  But it was only the fear of prison that got that done.  After the second arrest a lady judge told H, "Do it again and you're going to prison."  He has never touched me again.  But he views his arrests and my "getting him arrested."  I don't even bother telling him that he got himself arrested.  It does not compute.

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cannot allow himself to even FEEL what WRONG feels like

and

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someone like that, who cannot seem to be willing to accept that he is less than perfect and is a human being

They aren't trying to be this way.  It's some sort of brain malfunction.  In my H's case, 99 if not 100 times out of 100, I swear, you could tell him he's standing on your foot and he would think that a) you're giving him a hard time, and b) it's your fault for having your foot there.  He wouldn't apologize.  You might feel hurt by his actions.  You might think he's rude.  But what if you realized that his brain doesn't work right?  You might still be disappointed.  You might not like him very well, especially as oppposed to your Ideal Man.  But if you thought of it as being similar to being color blind, or dyslexic, or something like that, and NOT something that is voluntary, curable or in any way personal to you, would it make you feel better?  Because that is the way it is.  You know it's true.  You've asked him so many questions, wondering how he could view things as he does.  It's because that's the only way his brain can perceive it.  It doesn't work right.

Happy to have company.  Wish we weren't in this.  But at least we aren't alone.

Hopalong

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2007, 03:52:23 PM »
H Confounded,

Here's a blunt 2 cents, with gentle intention:

I vote you TAKE the higher-paying job, get yourself a PO Box (pay in cash), have all your work-home documentation mailed there (no paystubs for a nosy husband)...and open a new savings account in your own name at a different bank and have whatever portion of your paycheck you can get away with deposited there directly (and of course, statements mailed to your PO Box). When you bring home your income, just bring home the portion you choose to.

Sorry to be practical, but you make so many understanding excuses for a man who has been violent to you in the past, and is verbally abusive still.

hugs and hopes,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2007, 05:17:06 PM »
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So, to the extent that the elimination of that threat is change, then N's can change.  But it was only the fear of prison that got that done.  After the second arrest a lady judge told H, "Do it again and you're going to prison."  He has never touched me again.  But he views his arrests and my "getting him arrested."  I don't even bother telling him that he got himself arrested.  It does not compute.


I have to say again that, the ONLY people that can get my husband to show FRAILTY, are AUTHORITY FIGURES...it means police, counselors, teachers, large men, anyone he perceives as having any POWER, he WILL back down in front of...but, as soon as he's only with me, his ego is BACK in tact...or, FALSE EGO as the case is.

As far as what HOPS says, I understand that we do want to make excuses for these people, but one must realize that we are still wanting to see some GOOD in them...we want there to be that "white" spot in such a BLACK person.

I'm with ya, Confounded...even though my opinions are not always said with a lot of tact (still learning that one), I doo care, I do understand, I AM in the situation right now, and together we will MAKE it, my friend :)

axa

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2007, 05:33:36 PM »
Have to say that I agree with HOps.  I realise we all make our decisions when we are able but I would add that in my experience mental abuse/torture/gaslighting is every bit as bad as physical abuse.......... maybe more stealth, that is the difference.

Could I recommend a book called Stalking the Soul.  The author says where there is confusion there is ALWAYS abuse.  Seems to me you are worth more than that

axa

mudpuppy

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2007, 08:39:51 PM »
Hi confounded,

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I am happy to report that fear of the long arm of the law has changed my H's thinking about whether it's okay to hurt one's wife.


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But if you thought of it as being similar to being color blind, or dyslexic, or something like that, and NOT something that is voluntary, curable or in any way personal to you, would it make you feel better?

Let's stop and take a look at these two statements. The first is a factual statement. The second is an opinion or maybe hypothesis is a better term.
 Do the facts support the hypothesis? Emphatically, no. He CHOSE to quit hitting you when it looked like he might end up in the hoosegow. So his hitting you WAS voluntary and seems to me was most undoubtedly quite personal.
Now it may be that an Ns underlying condition is incurable, but each of them demonstrates repeatedly that their actions toward others (which is what we all have to deal with after all) are absolutely a free choice they consciously make.

If an N is standing on your foot it is not an accident,; he has chosen to do it. They know it hurts when they are standing on someone else's foot. That's the whole point of it in the first place.

mud

CB123

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Re: Why? Deliberately annoying behavior & gets angry when called on it
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2007, 08:55:26 PM »
Confounded,

I have followed your whole thread and am wondering why you are still with this man?  Is there something that compels you to stay?  I'm sorry that I don't recall your whole story, but are there children involved or convoluted financial things?  Is there some reason why you can't just say: "I'm through now", and extricate yourself?

It doesnt sound like you even LIKE him very much at this point.  It doesnt sound like you can relate to him on any level--intellectually, emotionally or physically.  What do you think?

Love
CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010