My dream about Martha Stewart & my mom

[gabbenangel]

Last night I had a dream staring Martha Stewart and my mom.

I can only very vaguely recall the begining and middle of the dream I was working and moving or something. Then I'm standing in a kitchen observing my mom and Martha having a conversation. Martha was comending my mom on some aspect of her life and Martha asked my mom how much time she has to live and what her diagnosis is. My mom says that she is going to die in 10 months and that she has cancer. Martha, who I was secretly wishing would acknowledge me in the dream, turns her head and looks at me as my mom announces this information, I feel those deep sorrowful sobs rise up in me...Martha just stares...I project on to her that perhaps she cares and then I woke up...


Any ideas,

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 My first thought was that Martha was a "part" of your M. She was the part that you "wished" for in your M.Maybe ,some of the sadness is your sorrow that you will never have the "good mother(Martha Stewart) and when your real M dies---all the hopes and dreams for the "good mother 'possibility will be gone.
  Your M dying will bring with it a final death of any hope for a good mother-daughter relationship. Does it hit a chord ,at all?             Ami

[gabbenangel]

Hi Ami,

That hits a cord, however, I was thinking that Martha Stewart seems a bit like an N to me in real life...

The part when you refer to my mom dying...the giving up that she will ever be the caring person that I wished for...that hits home.

As a matter of fact I just had a conversation with  my mom, I had to tell her that I was not coming down to her house for Thanksgiving -- she got silent and then I could hear her weeping that whinny weep of hers. I told her that I have been going through a lot of painful emotional memories and that I did not think that it would be good that I come down there...she did not even acknowledge my pain she just started crying and then we had a fight...one of the twisted fights with her saying that I don't care about her and making me wrong for being angry and for changing my mind. She called me "the whinny little victim."  I feel as though I have just been kicked in the gut.

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 I didn't know that you thought that Martha was an N (in real life). That changes it. I think the fact that you wanted Martha to acknowledge you is significant. This might be a central piece in the dream. You want "acknowledgement' from her. I am still thinking that she and your M could be "one"person, though. What do you think?
   Your conversation with your M is sad. We always have to be "taking care of them". They get in to a rage when we don't. It gets "old".
  What about a M taking care of the child----huh?
  I am sorry that she "kicked you in the gut". The stomach is the key part of us for nurturing(in Chinese Medicine). I am not surprised that you felt "kicked in the gut"
  At times like this, we feel the worst--don't we----so alone---so motherless.
  I am so sorry ,Lise. You are not alone. I have been kicked in the gut thousands of times and knifed in the back,too. Keep writing and
sharing. I understand and many others do ,too. You have given so much to people on the board,already. You are very appreciated ,here.                 Love   Ami

[gabbenangel]

Thanks Ami - the burning tears are just streaming down my face....I think that the dream might have had a prophetic theme...because today I saw my mom in a entirely new way. I have never read so much about NS up until my run in with the N saint therapist. Now I can see my mom and her 3 year old tantrums....some N's are sophisticated at their deception...my mom just let's the manipulation hang out there...and then she denies it...her tone is so toxic especially when she puts me down. I think of  how much of my life she took...and yet she was yelling at me for not caring about HER feelings, "when are you going to grow up and get over it" You think that "you are the only one in the world who has any feelings"....etc... My sister is going to call me tonight and perform triage on my wounded heart - she understands.

The little that my mom understands or knows is that what breaks my heart the most is knowing how wounded she is...how much she hurts...but at the same time I am so tired of taking care of her....I just can't do it right now.

Thanks Ami!  My pain seems never ending....

I wish I had dog. I am single and I have zero kids...my friends comfort me from time to time...I miss having a dog.

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  I have 2 fur babies--Henrietta(13 yr old ,black Standard Poodle) and Mimi(Yorkie puppy). I have cried so many tears huggung Henrietta.
  Can you get a dog?
  I am just starting to see how I decided to go as far as "not be able to eat" so I could give my life to my M.I chose to completely denude myself so I could make her feel "normal" and "better than I". After all my pain and angst---you know what? She was exactly the same as when I became numb at 14. She did not care or even "know" that I had sacrificed my essential life and core for her.
 She was exactly the same as if I had been "selfish" and taken care of myself. She was completely unchanged.
   Your M sounds like an N. It is always about how THEY feel. Do they feel badly about themselves? Watch out---you will pay and good.
    You "made" them feel badly about themselves by "being a person".
  It is HORRIBLE. There is no way to mitigate it.It is just TERRIBLE to have a "thing" like that for a M.
  At times like you are going through----------I think of eternal life where there will be so much love that we will never "yearn" again.
  I wish that I could send Mimi through cyberspace b/c Mimi wants to get on your lap when you cry. She wants to snuggle and she even kisses all your tears away.
   Love to you,Lise. Your M is "stupid" not to realize what a wonderful  relationship she could have with her D if she could only act like "half "a person,at least.            Ami



(((((((((((((Lise))))))))))))))))))))

[Gabben]

Oh your yorkie sounds adorable...my tears just fell thinking about that sweet unconditional love of a dog.

My mom is definitely a N...I just never really labled her before as much or looked so deeply in to the specifics of N.

There is so much on this board that I want to respond to and other threads that are interesting but I have a huge deadline at my job tomorrow and I will be away from this forum -- responsibility calls.

Tonight I go see my compassionate ex-nun therapist who loves my tears and has so much wisdom and insight.

Thanks Ami...I'll get back to you and everyone later tomorrow after I meet my deadline.

Peace and love,
Lise

[lighter]

I used to dream my father was shriveling up into black celery sort of pasta, which was odd, I realize that.

He was dying and looking at me with this sad, too bad too sad nothing to be done face.... and I felt so helpless.  He didn't want me to feel badly..... just let him go.  Awful stuff.

I think losing our parents is a primordial fear..... look at the different cultures way of remaining in touch with their anscestors after they pass. 

I don't think your mother is really dying but I do wonder about her need for perfection..... how she might lord that over you and look down on you, minimize your feelings and act like a cold sterile elitist bitch when you get emotional and she doesn't want to deal with it?

Not sure but hope you feel better.

[Hopalong]

Lise...ohhh.

For me, Martha S. is about toxic frozen womanhood in compulsive pursuit of joyless perfection, sexuality destroyed.

She is a horror figure to me.

I remember, though, a professor who told us once, "There is no such thing as a bad dream, because dreams are safety valves for your mind. You dream about your hopes and fears, and both are valuable."

Hops

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  I loved Amber's interpretation.                        Ami

[Gabben]

You already had Martha pegged as an N (I agree, btw). So Martha was separating that N part OUT of your mom - I'm thinking to emphasize it... get you to see it clearly. And the 10 months to live, cancer - may represent the death of your illusions about the relationship. (of course, it's EASY to see that connection, in light of your phone call).

I agree Ami and Amber...this above is a really good interpretation. Just last night my therapist said for me to try get on a gut level how disturbed my mom IS and to "see" what I have not been willing to see, it helps to take the power and sting out of her bite. So yesterday's conversation with this dream and your insights have created a new beginning (which is all death is anyway) to a clearer vision of reality.

Thanks for your encouragement and insight.

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  I AM seeing how very sick my M is. It does help to realize that it was not my fault that I was treated so badly.It was her. She treated me like she treats herself--badly----bleh                 Love  Ami


((((((((((((((((Lise))))))))))))))))))

[gabbenangel]

Hi Amber,

Actually I am in the mood for some Martha analyzing/bashing right about now - this could be fun.

I like this...Martha is TOO perfect and was seeming to pass judgment on the whole world that they too "SHOULD" be perfect...but of course she is like the taunter from homemaker hell, she shamelessly knew no working mom or career woman would ever be able to keep up with all that she always made seem so easy. Behind the image of perfection was a staff or team helping her. Behind the scenes was a woman who had a reputation for coldheartedness and behind scenes was a woman obsessed with being the center of attention.

Another thought about Martha, that confirmed her N, was when she was convicted of the trading scandal, it typifies N behavior such as acting above the law. I give Martha credit although I'm not trusting it is due, is seemed that when she knew that she was guilty and her image was forever tarnished, she caved in, she accepted the judgement, did her time and won back some respect...was it a ploy or image patch job or was she really sorry for the wrong that she did?

Lise