Sabotage - large and small

[Iphi]

On the topic that sunblue has started about how holidays really bring the Ns out of the woodwork, we started straying off into the subject of how incredibly chaotic and crazymaking it is to travel with an N, or maybe really a larger topic of Ns and the things they do to sabotage.

A number of the things lighter described her sister doing really blew me away.  Her sister gave lighter's passport to a stranger in a crowded airport.   

And she will do things directly after being warned not to do the thing.  She will do the opposite of the obvious best way to do something - doing things the obvious (no, really obvious) worst way.

I've been meaning for a long time to start a topic about N's and the sabotage thing.  In my FOO, the sabotage was always there like atmosphere, but it was never, never addressed.  Each event just happened and there was no reflection, no learning, no (ho ho ho) frank discussion and the next time there was no better plan, no different way.

The sabotage put me in danger many times, of various kinds, but it also put the N in danger.

Do people know what I am talking about right off the bat?  I will tell some stories later, but it will take a while to type. 

The current of sabotage was one of the most darkly crazy feeling aspects of life with my N-dad. 

It's something that I have never been able to wrap my head all the way around.  It took ages and ages just to trace all the different events and happenings and say - this is sabotage.  Much less figure out why.

I really look forward to hearing others experience and thoughts on this.

[Ami]

Dear Iphi,
  Could you explain more specifically  what you mean. Maybe,I am being dense ,but I can't get a feel for your question.  Thanks,Iphi                   Ami

[Hopalong]

Hoooo boy.
Simple classic example. Explaining sincerely and a mite desperately that I have a sugar addiction and really need to not have sweets left out on the counter where I have to look at them every time I go for water.

You guessed it. For years, "trails" of sweets. Baked goods arrayed sweetly on a napkin. Over and over and over.

ARRRRGHGGHGHGHGHGHHH!

Great topic, Ihpi. Thank you!

love
Hops

[Leah]

Sabotage of the success of losing some weight with the appearance of irresistible cream cakes or chocolate!

Pleasure in seeing the weight return!

"Ever Increasing Circle" of waist!! 

Looking back, can see how and why that was worked.

Love, Leah

[Leah]

I will say this...... we're identical twins (in case anyone missed that) which bolsters my case with Leah that people are born a certain way, with certain traits that can't be altered.

Dear Lighter,

Are you referring to my post on 'What and Why? thread ?

As I have not said that certain traits can't be altered, merely, that I am gratefully thankful, to have been the first born, after all.

We all of us, have the will to choose, to a certain degree, sadly, some would seem to have have no conscience, which may well be the differing factor.

Love, Leah

[alone48]

SAbotage, I do understand it but was always afraid to deal with it and thus it got away until the next time. Each time you remember, but it diminishes with time and you think you've made a big deal of somethning. You can't ever do anything right even if you follow it to the letter of the law, the law changes.

I planned a wonderful vacation with N, he was too busy and couldn't participate in the planning even though he didn't work. Had everything to a T, until the last minute when he finally had time to check out the hotel and found out there was some kind of germ epidemic and everyone was getting ill. I still don't know if that was true, but of course we changed hotels. This through a whole wrench in the vacation that turned into a disaster, therin lies the sabotage( he really didin't want to go anyway and just proved his point) ........many more examples

[Ami]

I  think that my H tried to push away friends who would make me stronger by acting "obnoxious" when they would call(or come over).
  People were afraid to call. They would ask me,"Is he going to be home?"
  I guess that sabotage  is a subconscious thing with people. I see that so much 'craziness" is just fear and shame.
  I can see that with my M. She was just trying not to 'drown". She was pulling me under NOT to hurt me,,but to save herself from fear and shame.
  I guess that sabotage  would be the same thing. In fact,I look at all my crazy behaviors. I was trying to run from fear and shame too-bleh                     Ami

 

[Leah]

Dear Ami,

Can so identify with the type of 'sabotage' you refer to.

My now exH would not communicate with a colleague from work who had dropped in for a coffee -- just same in his armchair, saying zilch ---- the atmosphere was tense, with me trying to make up for the void he created.  Ignorance, pure and simply, but, with a purpose and a plan.  Next day, at work, all eyes of Leah, and my colleague kept her distance from that day on.

He did not like my having friends at work, oh, he loved for me to go out to work, yes, but not to enjoy it.

My mother, upon reflection, created problems with my friends, and they too would not like to call, all with the exception of one, who my mother ensnared in her Nwebment!!  Because this friend was the daughter of her friend, and it is a very long painful story.

Sabotage for the purpose of control and manipulation --- and isolation.

Love, Leah

[Ami]

Dear Leah
  It is b/c the "victim" cannot get too 'smart" or they won't be the victim ,anymore---bleh                Ami

[wiltay]

Sabotage is an everyday weapon for Ns I think.  It's always extremely childish, which makes it easy to dismiss coming from someone you think is an adult, IOW it has to be some misunderstanding or fluke.  Until it happens again and again and again.  That's been my story with the male Ns I've known who have seemed to view me as a rival, a competitor of some sort, who has to be messed with or I will beat them at something. There's a contest going on that I'm not even aware of. 
Bill

[Leah]

Sabotage is an everyday weapon for Ns I think.  It's always extremely childish, which makes it easy to dismiss coming from someone you think is an adult, IOW it has to be some misunderstanding or fluke.  Until it happens again and again and again.  That's been my story with the male Ns I've known who have seemed to view me as a rival, a competitor of some sort, who has to be messed with or I will beat them at something. There's a contest going on that I'm not even aware of. 
Bill

Bill,

Sabotage carried out to 'knock you out of the frame" i.e. remove the competition

when someone feels put out by the 'new kid on the block' getting all the attention.

Seen that happen in the workplace and elsewhere, all in all, it's absolutely dreadful.

Agree with you, extremely childish -- immaturity at its worst!

Leah

[finding peace]

This is a very painful topic for me.  As a young child I can remember being so hurt by my FOO’s acts of sabotage.  And there were many, many, many. 

My brother would sabotage me with my friends – he would out and out lie about me.  I can remember people coming up to me and telling me about these rumors circulating through school about me that he started  – always made me wonder what I didn’t hear.

I never could understand why he hated me so much (other than being born).

My mother would lie about me to my father so he would rage at me instead of her – my brother did the same thing. 

If I needed something for school, she would deliberately buy the wrong thing.

She made me cut my hair very, very short.  Wear boys clothes, and mock me incessantly. 

I never could understand why she hated me so much.

One year my parents claimed they didn’t have enough to buy me a coat – of course, they could afford coats for my siblings, and their cigarettes and alcohol, but they couldn’t buy me a coat.

One year they bought new down comforters for everyone in the family except me.  I was left with a ratty old blanket that had definitely seen better days. 

If there was left overs for dinner and I was still hungry, I was only allowed to have the food if my brother didn’t want it – he always wanted it.

When I was a little girl, I so badly wanted a canopy bed.  My M refused to get me one.  My sister got one.  Will never forget the smirk on my mother’s face when she did this.

If I asked her not to let my cat outside – she would let my cat outside.

So many acts of sabotage of some sort - so many seemingly minor on the surface – but the totality of them are devastating.

Sadly – I learned very well.  I learned that the only way to survive in that house was to sabotage myself. 

Good news is I am so done with that!

Peace

[wiltay]

But Leah, this is someone who pretends to like you and professes their friendship towards you in many ways.  They pretend they only have your interests at heart while all they want to do is damage you.  This isn't workplace rivalry, it's the devil pretending to be your buddy. 
Bill

[Leah]

Sabotage is an everyday weapon for Ns I think.  It's always extremely childish, which makes it easy to dismiss coming from someone you think is an adult, IOW it has to be some misunderstanding or fluke.  Until it happens again and again and again.  That's been my story with the male Ns I've known who have seemed to view me as a rival, a competitor of some sort, who has to be messed with or I will beat them at something. There's a contest going on that I'm not even aware of. 
Bill

Bill,

Sabotage carried out to 'knock you out of the frame" i.e. remove the competition

when someone feels put out by the 'new kid on the block' getting all the attention.

Seen that happen in the workplace and elsewhere, all in all, it's absolutely dreadful.

Agree with you, extremely childish -- immaturity at its worst!

Leah

Posted by: wiltay 
But Leah, this is someone who pretends to like you and professes their friendship towards you in many ways.  They pretend they only have your interests at heart while all they want to do is damage. 

Yes, Bill, and it does happen in the workplace too, and as i said, elsewhere -- in FOO and friends and relationships.

BullyOnline mentions every aspect of human interactive situations where N's and P's and such, all behave in this way.

Sad, but oh, so very true.

Leah

[Leah]

Oh, (((( Peace ))))

No wonder I was a trigger to you.

Your mother and mine must be sisters!

Except that my father made me wear boys shoes.

Never had a pretty pair of shoes, not that it mattered, because I never had any pretty dresses, only clothes suitable for working in.

Boys coat for school too.

((((((( Peace )))))))


Love & Hugs,

Leah