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Does the N ever receive HER just deserts?

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Anonymous:
Clueless,

You have empathy for other people. This rules out NPD right off the bat. People with severe narcissism literally cannot walk a mile in someone else's shoes. They cannot imagine how another person feels, let alone care about it. Other people's feelings, to them, are merely a projection of their own needs, demands, and fantasies. I don't think you're in this category. You clearly have empathy and compassion for other people, including narcissists.

Dissociating isn't a classic sign of narcissism. It may be a sign of something else (PTSD for example) and it could be explored in therapy.

Selfishness is a very important thing in appropriate doses. People who want to be "unselfish" usually are the most selfish of all, because they drive everyone crazy by being unable to make decisions, form opinions, tell us what they want, etc. Give me a healthily selfish, assertive person any day. It's true that pathological selfishness is a big problem. I doubt you're in that category.

Being extremely defensive is a problem as you point out. But it's not a permanent condition. With good therapy, it can be diminished greatly. I used to be as prickly as a cactus before I developed more mature defenses. Now I am able to tolerate much more because I'm not as vulnerable and fearful. It's mainly about learning better ways of protecting and enforcing boundaries. It's doable.

Are you in therapy...? Sorry if you already mentioned it and I overlooked it.

bunny

Clueless:
Oh bunny,

Do I have empathy? Sometimes people I knew used to say that I was compassionate, but if you give a helping hand or a listening ear without your whole heart is that the same thing? I'd meet people and think " hey, for some reason this person seems to like me. They keep on talking to me... and if they were going through something (parents putting on the pressure, lonely or something) I'd listen and try to help. But since my mum died I still had this feeling like " what do they really know about anything? Their parents are still alive, or their  'problems'  are trivial - if only they knew how good they have it." I wouldn't let anyone help me with my pain because I had learned not to express emotion so well that I wasn't even aware of my pain.

Since her death I've supressed all my feelings with hard work at school (top notch student) travelling, and since the breakdown with alcohol and cigarettes. I've been in therapy for 4 years, but the shrinks came up with the diagnosis of dissociation/ depersonalisation. I have a very black/white view of the world. My attitude is: if I hadn't done this, then that wouldn't have happened etc.I'm a control freak. It's also true that I have a tendency NOT to listen to others, and to believe my own opinion at all times, so maybe I'm trying to convince myself that I'm an N! But why wiould a healthy person WANT to do that?

Since the breakdown I've experienced such intense feelings of shame that I've virtually turned myself into a recluse. I just cannot communicate with people anymore. All I do is react defensively, extremely negavtively - like I said, only MY opinion counts. Even if not an N, feel extremely low. Empty. Afraid/ paranoid. Don't have one stable identity, or so it seems. I'm obsessed with the breakdown rather than continuing with my actual life.

Anyway, nice to hear from you, thanks for support/ encouragement,

clueless

bunny:

--- Quote from: Clueless ---Do I have empathy? Sometimes people I knew used to say that I was compassionate, but if you give a helping hand or a listening ear without your whole heart is that the same thing? I'd meet people and think " hey, for some reason this person seems to like me. They keep on talking to me... and if they were going through something (parents putting on the pressure, lonely or something) I'd listen and try to help. But since my mum died I still had this feeling like " what do they really know about anything? Their parents are still alive, or their  'problems'  are trivial - if only they knew how good they have it." I wouldn't let anyone help me with my pain because I had learned not to express emotion so well that I wasn't even aware of my pain.
--- End quote ---


Empathy/compassion doesn't mean you only think positive thoughts while listening. You can also feel angry and judgmental toward the person. Empathy is understanding that person's situation, even if you don't think it's as bad as they think it is. Compassion means you won't further punish them if you happen to feel resentful. You hold back and treat them respectfully instead. For me, empathy and compassion are not easy. I sometimes feel like, Yeah, yeah, cut to the chase, when they're talking. These are my own defenses against anxiety. It doesn't mean I don't have empathy or compassion. But I'm feeling anxious.



--- Quote from: Clueless ---I've been in therapy for 4 years, but the shrinks came up with the diagnosis of dissociation/ depersonalisation. I have a very black/white view of the world. My attitude is: if I hadn't done this, then that wouldn't have happened etc.I'm a control freak. It's also true that I have a tendency NOT to listen to others, and to believe my own opinion at all times, so maybe I'm trying to convince myself that I'm an N! But why wiould a healthy person WANT to do that?
--- End quote ---


Maybe you're trying to hold yourself together with some rigid thoughts. If it works, keep doing it until you get the right kind of help to find a better way.
What does the diagnosis mean in terms of getting you some help? Let's say you dissociate and depersonalize. How do they work with it?




--- Quote from: Clueless ---Since the breakdown I've experienced such intense feelings of shame that I've virtually turned myself into a recluse. I just cannot communicate with people anymore. All I do is react defensively, extremely negavtively - like I said, only MY opinion counts. Even if not an N, feel extremely low. Empty. Afraid/ paranoid. Don't have one stable identity, or so it seems. I'm obsessed with the breakdown rather than continuing with my actual life.?
--- End quote ---


It sounds like you'd like some better ways to deal with other people because this is no longer working too well. Although in this exchange with me, you strike me as a reasonable person.

bunny

mighty mouse:
Gosh Clueless,

It seems like you would have seperation anxiety after losing so many people. And moving around a lot and to a new country. That's a lot of stuff to pile on. You must not have felt rooted anywhere.

Although I beleive in therapy, I do know that sometimes they get stuck in a way of thinking and can't offer anymore than they could 4-5 weeks into the process. When I was younger I had some therapy, but because my Husband's TV station kept changing hands, we always had new insurance providers. What I found by going to many therapists is that they all together gave me a better experience than just one person did.

Of course you may not want to change therapists since you've had so many changes in your life situations. But it helped me is all I'm saying.

Good luck to you on your journey.

MM

Clueless:
Hey guys,

Thanks for all your support! I have yet another layer to add: the breakdown happened after I'd spent 5 yrs living in yet another country where I'd built up a new life. Then I came home (after a failed relationship and a lot of other stuff) only to find myself living w. a woman who could not cope w. being alone. She was extremely jealous/possessive and SHE really rammmed in the no feeling stuff - even though I'd just had a major breakdown and was confused and TIRED! Couldn't get away from her for 4 yrs., ex-boyfriend v. loving but also jealous, which scared me too. All I know is that I'm very scared of feeling what I really think I feel: when I lived with that woman she'd ignore everything I said and tell me " what was best" for me. If I said anything she didn't like she always had the " you have no feelings anyway" reply, even though I was in full blown mourning for all the friends I'd lest in England. I felt like I'd died, but she kept putting the boot in. The thing is, I believe I have some major issues, but after 4 yrs of her I didn't know which way was up anymore. Now I think I'm just like her, except that I'm the passive version to her aggressive version...

I don't know... I see other people, and they are happy and loving and I'm just negative and afraid - aarghhhh!

As for the depersonalistaion, what happens is that I have a different persona for different people, and that's something I've had for yrs. If i was in a room with my ex, my school friends and my family I'd literally go nuts. With my ex, who was very loving and kind but needing a little reassurance Inormal) I' d be overly critical, distant, dismissive. With his friends I was catatonic or extremely restless. And NEVER talked about what I was actually feeling at the time...

Wanna go back into therapy, REALLY discuss issues: first few yrs I just gave the "story" version of my life: when I was 4 this happened, when 6 this happened and btw I disn't need a breakdown/therapy cause I don't have time. I've been thru shit but now I dish it out and I don't like it...

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