Dr. Grossman

[Certain Hope]

Hi,

I wonder... do y'all suppose that Dr. Grossman is really that surprised/shocked/taken aback/put off by the behaviour of people on this board?

Don't you suppose that a man as well-trained and experienced as Dr. Grossman is fully aware of the capacity of human nature for nonsense?

Seriously, I feel like alot of this is blown wayyyy out of proportion when it's simply another mini episode in the day/life of any therapist/parent/leader. Ever see what a pastor has to deal with in a congregation of supposedly God-fearing adults? And they have all sorts of rules to which to point!
LOL ... this ain't nuthin!

With love,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

If I am consumed with self, and have a lot of self-loathing...as you suggest, how would I know how to behave? Wow. Self-loathing would mean that on some level, I WANT other people to be abusive to me (because that feels deeply familiar) Sounds obvious now (thwacks self on head) but I guess that's what a lot of this rawness and rudeness has been about. Those who are offensive may be literally asking for a fight, because receiving emotional or physical blows feels familial.

I meant to say familial.

Hops

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))
(((((((((((Janet)))))))))))))

[Leah]

Well folks, it's interesting to say the least, and Dr Grossman, I take my hat off to you with sincer respect and admiration

for your hard work, time and intervention during the last 5 years (I think it's 5 yrs) for you are a very brave courageous person.

With deepest respect,

Leah

[JanetLG]

Hops,

I wasn't saying I necessarily *wanted* rules,  I was just pointing out that it might be helpful to have some. It's just so unusual to have a forum with no ground rules. I'd like Dr Grossman's reasons explained by him, that's all.

People have left this forum this week, because of the anarchy. So, something needs to be done - I just don't know what, so I was raising that point for discussion. I wasn't suggesting that people post what they want, even when it's abusive, and then 'wait for him to' sort them out.

Perhaps I'm raising this point because when I post on a dressmaking forum, it's a whole lot simpler than this one! People are polite, respectful, interested, and aware. You still get the occasional dummy, but it's a different type!


Carolyn,

No, I don't suppose Dr Grossman is surprised at all - I should think, like a lot of us, he's bored. Very, very bored.


Janet

[Leah]

Got a suggestion:   Why not refer to as   ' Guidelines '   ???

being Guided sounds so much nicer than

being Ruled.

Why not all work together at jotting up a short simple list of basic respectful and considerate guidelines ?!

Just a thought.

Leah

[mudpuppy]

One thing I've found that helps it to try not to contain the chaos.  So it flourishes, who cares?

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.
Trying to contain the chaos of human nature, when done by board members rather than a moderator, works about as well as trying to swat out a fire with a small greasy rag; all you do is fan the flames and burn yourself.

mud

[CB123]

Interesting thread--I thought at first that it was addressed to, Dr. Grossman and realize now that it is about Dr. Grossman.

Here's my two cents:

1) Just because we are adults, doesnt mean we have a clue how to do what we are trying to do.  I think that's the whole point of the forum.  If we knew how to have healthy relationships and how to heal from past traumas, we would find this forum boring and irrelevant.

2) The good news is, Dr. Grossman is also an adult and he will probably not be scared off by our petty little skirmishes.  I have the sense that he has strong boundaries and if someone asks him for help that he doesnt have time to give, he will probably say so.  I don't think he'll shut down the whole board because we are acting as damaged as he already knows we are.

3) A lot of the reason that we are responding to one another on the board as we are, is because we are scared to do it any other way.  Somewhere each of us has learned what particular protective wall is the best protection when we are really, really scared and in danger.  And, face it, everyone here--in spite of any bravado expressed--is scared at the depth of this conflict.  One poster uses sarcasm, one uses humor, one uses condescension, one uses bible verses, and several, I suspect, just run for the hills. 

4) We arent really talking to each other anymore--we are talking to our masks.  Trust me--N's don't have a corner on that tactic.  We all use it.  And there is very little real communication going on anymore. 

5) I don't think that Dr. Grossman can help us with any of this.  He can lock threads, delete threads, slap hands.  Those remedies will simply teach to us to fine-tune our masks (if sarcasm locks a thread, we will learn to not use sarcasm as a mask--but we won't take off the mask).  Basically the question that's being asked, and the solution that's being proposed, is: what kind of mask is acceptable.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. 

CB

[Leah]

People have left this forum this week, because of the anarchy. So, something needs to be done - I just don't know what, so I was raising that point for discussion. I wasn't suggesting that people post what they want, even when it's abusive, and then 'wait for him to' sort them out.

Well, one PM that I received this week was saddening, a dear precious gentle lady, too afraid to come onto the board, who has been hovering for many many months at the sideline.

Wisely, in confidence, which is assured.

It's only us MEMBERS that prevented the lady from joining us.

Accountability and Responsibility

Leah

[mudpuppy]

Not only do the chaos and the tit for tat threads scare off newbies, they cause people who do post about real problems to be ignored or barely heard.
Voicelessness is just as much about not being heard when we do speak, maybe more so, than not speaking at all.
Its pretty hard to hear someone in trouble whimpering quietly when all we hear are the squeals and garbage cans getting knocked over by the alley cats outside our window.

mud

[Leah]

Not only do the chaos and the tit for tat threads scare off newbies, they cause people who do post about real problems to be ignored or barely heard.

Voicelessness is just as much about not being heard when we do speak, maybe more so, than not speaking at all.

Its pretty hard to hear someone in trouble whimpering quietly when all we hear are the squeals and garbage cans getting knocked over by the alley cats outside our window.

mud

Dear Mud,

So very true, sadly.

Leah

[Certain Hope]

It's not the alley cats dumping the trash and making a ruckus that worry me.. it's the pedigreed puddytat who's shredding the carpet behind the divan!

Carolyn

[JanetLG]

Bean,

I'm not 'imagining' people leaving - they told me before they left. Others told me they are afraid to post any more. Some told me they haven't posted for ages, as the tone of the forum has deteriorated so much. It was what I was referring to in the 16-page long thread the other day, when I said I'd had 'bucketloads of support' - remember that? That's when they said it, mainly, and in the few days since.

Obviously, it's private. Doesn't mean I'm making it up by not telling you who it was, though. I'm respecting their privacy, whilst telling the truth.


Janet

[Leah]

I don't know...

I think I can imagine lots of people leaving because of chaos.  But I can also imagine people staying because of it.  Look at how all of us were drawn to it.  (!)

Just trying to stretch those imaginations a little.  There's other (more positive) ways to look at things.  The gloom and doom may not serve us, that's all.

sometimes there are hidden gifts, that's all

bean

Another way to look at it is ...... " how can we make things a little more pleasant for ourselves, as members, so that we enjoy ...... "  ?

Things don't have to stay the same, year in, year out .... do they ??

What about 2008 ??

Leah

[lighter]

hey lighter,

sorry you seem to be having trouble expressing yourself.  One thing I've found that helps it to try not to contain the chaos.  So it flourishes, who cares?  

Again, sorry you are troubled and feeling grief over this.

bean

Bean:

I didn't spend my formative years dealing with chaos

and chronic scapegoating

and chronic gaslighting.

I'm so uncomfortable with it.... I truly gag through the days it's presenting itself.... I swallow vomit and that's uncomfortable for me. 

I feel pregnant again and I'd like to say that going NC's possible, but it's not.  A year of vomiting in my mouth

I didn't develop coping strategies apparently.... to handle this type of situation.... at least no once I KNOW what it is.  

Confusion worked for a while.... but you can only be confused for so long before things become pretty clear.

I don't see alternatives, that don't make me vomit, besides NC.

Empathic listening and hearing seems to be a complete bust when addressing the chronic gaslighters so..... what's in between?

Hmmm...... how would Sheriff Andy Taylor handle the situation?

Must give that one some thought.

I fear he'd use little humorouse stories, that make us laugh

[Lupita]

Do you think it would be a good idea that when somebody tells us, please, do not tell me that, that we just do not tell that to that person?
But, many times somebody says that please, do not tell me that, the other person gets mad and says that you shouls hear what you do not want to hear or you should do this or do the other, or that everybody told you what to do and you do not do it.....etc.
In my case when somebody irritates me I do not fo into her threads. Also, when somebody triggers me on my own thread I erase it. Or withdrow for some days, but I have never answered to people who trioggered me. Then the person who least bothers me ask me if she was the one, and the one that really bothers me never asks me. Also, a member gets offended by the attention that other recieves, with the only fact that do not pay attention to that thread you are saying something. If a thread does not find people interested, the person will not post about that very frequently. If a thread gets constant attention, the attention it self is giving the thread what the thread is looking for.

As you can see, I have never interacted in any conflict. This is something that friends might consider the possibility to think about.

If somebody gets offended, please forgive me, that is not my intention. And please, do not ask me who ffended me. I will never tell.

For the first time since I came to the forum I am displacing an idea for the general people here. Usually I only go to my own thing. Please do not get offended by me. That is the last thing I want to do here.



God bless you all.