Author Topic: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans  (Read 1647 times)

reallyME

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a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« on: December 30, 2007, 09:40:02 AM »
I've been reading Cesar Millan's book about dog "whispering" lately, along with some other dog type books, since I have a new Cmas lab dog whom I'm interested in training.

He talks about how animals are NOT LIKE humans and I was thinking about that this morning...are there narcissistic dogs?  How is it that dogs can raise their young on instinct, never generally abusing them, yet some humans are monsters toward their children and others?

I've never heard of dogs having to set boundaries with other dogs, although they do things like "mark" their territory, bark to warn against them intruding...stuff like that, but they don't take their puppies and hold their paws over a hot stove burner, don't torture their pups with sharp  objects, don't play head-games with their offspring, things like that.

Do dogs have the human species beat somehow?

~Laura

Overcomer

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 10:20:33 AM »
Well we had a docile girl lab mix and she was all alone all day long so we thought we would get a puppy for her to mother.  He is a boy and I will call him an alpha male.  Since he was little he has controlled the household.  We also have two cats and he keeps them ALL in line.  He chases them around.  He barks at other dogs.  Does that make him an N?  He wants all the attention.  He sleeps right in the middle of me and my H.  If I try to pet anyone else he gets between me and the other pet.
Kelly

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tayana

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 11:38:43 AM »
I was just thinking about writing a similar post on a related topic, so I'll just reply here.

I watch the Dog Whisperer program rather regularly, and I've tried some of the things on my dog.  I've also watched Victoria Strauss, who's another dog trainer.  People are often guilty of humanizing their dogs.  Dogs aren't human.  They don't have human feelings.  What I was going to write about was that with humans there is no such thing as unconditional love.  We can love each other, but there are always times when we act in ways that are cruel and hateful.  We are all guilty of that.  If you want true unconditional love, get a dog and train the dog properly.  It'll adore you.  It'll love you, no matter what you do to it.  If you beat it and walk up to it, it may hunker down in a show of submission, but it's still going to wag its tail and be happy to see you.

Dogs are pack animals.  In the wild they look up to the "alpha" male and female for leadership.  With humans, we become their pack.  That's the philosophy behind the dog whisperer's techniques.  The humans have to take on the role of the alpha.  Dogs develop a natural heirarchy in their pack.  The strongest get to eat first, get attention, etc.  Dogs don't feel guilty.  They don't do things just for spite, even though at times it seems like they do.   

I read someplace that dogs have about the same amount of intelligence as a two year old.  They can understand about two hundred words.  Some dogs might know more.  I don't think there are narcissistic dogs.  I think there are poorly trained dogs and poorly socialized dogs.  I don't think there are dogs that are just inherently bad.
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alone48

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2007, 12:54:31 PM »
Maybe dogs are just humans in the simplest form and haven't got around to getting messed up yet.

reallyME

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2007, 02:03:46 PM »
Tayana,

seems to me that those few feral children who grew up in the wild, raised by animals in this world, might have had a better life than half the domesticated human species that I've met.

~Laura

Bella_French

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2007, 05:01:39 PM »

I agree with alone; I think of animals as loosely similar to humans, but emotionally & intellectually they are a lot simpler, with different (sometimes superior) physical adaptions to our environment.  I don't think animals could have a `disease of the emotions' such as NPD, as they just aren't complex enough to be emotionally cruel or suffer in the way we do.

I've heard the word `Anthromorphization' used to descibe the way humans can assign human-like emotional complexity to animals. I agree they are not as complex as us, that is a given, but I've always wondered how much animals DO feel? I've watched animals lose their entire families and they DO hurt and mourn, but I think they get over it perhaps quicker than we would. But its not overnight, and it seems to differ according to the individual.

Animals are fascinating!

X bella


Hopalong

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2007, 07:21:05 PM »
this is a wonderful article on the topic...hope you enjoy

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/sep3/emotions.htm

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Lupita

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Re: a curious thought about dogs, animals and humans
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 07:24:49 PM »
Dogs behave very much like humans. In groups, they have a lieder, and followers, and they fight too for liedership and for females. We do not see it because we regularly have one or two dogs.

You can see it in underdevelop countries where there are a lot of stray dogs. Also with dogs cousins like wolves, coyotes, etc.

Same with humans, one human treats you in one way when alone with you and in a different way if accompanied by his/her friends/gang.