Author Topic: Forgiveness  (Read 1590 times)

axa

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Forgiveness
« on: January 03, 2008, 06:59:35 PM »
I am not sure if this thread is about forgiveness but would welcome comments.  It was prompted by Hops thread.  I think I have been confused about forgiveness.  Recently I had a call from XN's daughter who asked that we become friends and forget what happened between us.  My "instinct" was to say that everything was ok and we can be friends BUT I said I needed to think about it.  In truth nothing has changed, my old way of being would be to rush back in and let bygones be bygones but she has not changed and I have.  I think I equated forgiveness with letting down my boundaries and leaving myself open for further use/abuse.  I have great sympathy for this girl and in my heart feel love for her but I am in no doubt that if the chips were down she would betray me again.  I am glad that I have seen this.  Do I forgive her for her behaviour towards me?  I understand that she has had so little parenting that she would do anything to get what she wants.  I understand she misses me and would like to be my friend.  I forgive myself for being so naive and having no boundaries around her and I do not trust her because she does not really get how much she hurt me.  I choose not to be friends with her but wish her well in her life and hope that she finds someone who can be a guide for her but it won't be me. 

Looking back on my life I have "forgiven" those who abused me so easily in the hope that they would see how nice I was and love me back............ what a waste.  I think as someone who has been entangled with Ns all of my life I need to be much clearer about forgiveness and letting my boundaries down.  The best predictor for future behaviour is past behaivour unless one is aware.

Axa xxxx

Certain Hope

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2008, 07:36:34 PM »
Dear Axa,

My first thought is that - on our part - forgiveness is a matter of relinquishing any intent or *right* (for lack of a better word at the moment) of exacting punishment from the person who damaged us... with no vengeance, no demands for restitution.

This is an entirely separate matter from making righteous judgments about our own lives, complete with responsible choices to not foolishly place ourselves into harm's way... which means, in the case of some people, we must deliberately choose to not engage.

An old saying I've always appreciated:  Some folks you just gotta feed with a very long-handled spoon (lest you get your arm chomped off).

Love to you,
Carolyn


Ami

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 08:31:46 PM »
Dear Axa,
  I forgave my M, but I do not trust her. I forgave her b/c I think  that she could not help how she treated me .I could not get out of my own "emotional" problems. I felt like I was underwater and I could not get to the surface.  She ,I believe, could not get out of the problem ,either.So, from facing my own weaknesses, I was able to forgive her.       Ami
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

alone48

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 08:36:51 PM »
After my father died, my brothers basically disowned my stepmother. She is strange, but gave my dad 18 years of pretty comfortable homelife, so I felt I owed her something. I told her "I will keep you in my life as long as you no longer try to take advantage of me (mostly $$) she understood and some 15 years later we still have some contact. I really found it hard to set those boundaries and I didn't like her all that much. If you're close to your sd then it proably would be alot tougher. Just taking that step to tell her you needed to think about it was HUGE!

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 08:50:40 PM »
Thanks for this thread, Axa.
I find forgiveness easy, remembering the part about past and future behavior a lot harder.
It's sometimes as though I'm emotionally senile.

With my brother, I do forgive but he keeps repeating the same offense. Pure N.
Sly indimidation, invasion. He's not punching me under the stairs any more, but jeez,
I do not forget my childhood. I'm afraid it's marked our relationship for life and I will never trust him.
While we lived separate adult lives, both out of the nest, I began to forget and so forth. But
being in the actual building where all the memories are, and his current behavior, brings it back.
In honesty, I'd like him to forget I exist, and once Mom's gone and the stuff settled,
I likely won't want anything to do with him. He's zeroing in now but he'll likely vanish
after that. I have compassion for him. But I finally developed some for myself.

I am all for forgiveness for the sake of the one forgiving and because I want it too.
I guess I believe that if you're strong enough to forgive, then you should also be strong
enough to do it wisely, and discern when it can include reconciliation and when it should
mean contining to protect yourself with firm boundaries.

I don't think there's any danger in forgiving when there's a balance of self-love.
It's when all the membrane around your sense of self ruptures in the act of forgiveness,
and you not only turn the other cheek but offer them your own dagger to stab you with...
that's not so good.

Oy.
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

changing

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 09:13:05 PM »
Our Ami seems to have gotten to the essence of this- forgiveness does not mean stupidity or cupidity or unwarranted trust and sacrifice of one's security. The forgiving is a method of freedom for you to redirect your focus from their conduct to your own happiness, without having to put one's head on the chopping block- "I forgive...but do not trust" as Ami said, is wisdom indeed.

Love,

Changing

Gaining Strength

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 12:33:05 AM »
Axa - I fully believe that until I am able to truly forgive my father, my mother, my brothers and my late husband that I will be bound to them in very negative ways.  But you raise a very important issue about forgiving and the confusion between forgiving and being a doormat. 

I think I am able to distinguish between the two best when it comes to my father.  My father is very dangerous.  He (for whatever sick reason) had a desire, perhaps need to destroy me so when I talk about forgiving him it as nothing to do with being in relationship with him - that is not possible.  I may be around him (though I much prefer not to) but what I must do day after day, minute after minute is to put up a shield and protect my being from him.  Forgiving him releases me from being enmeshed with him - it does not mean that I must put myself in his path ever again.  It means I no longer hold him responsible for my wounds and my woundedness.  As long as I do then I am also giving him my power.  When I take responsibility for my woundedness then I can help with my own healing.

That is my take on forgiveness and doormatness.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 10:18:59 AM by Gaining Strength »

Hopalong

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 06:45:41 AM »
Quote
Forgiving him releases me from being enmeshed with him - it does not me that I must put myself in his path ever again.

Bingo, GS. Well said.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: Forgiveness
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 08:40:57 AM »
Thank you, Changing. What happened to me was very "easy". I did not struggle to "forgive" as I always had in the past. Once I saw how hopelessly lost *I* was, I forgave my M for being hopelessly lost ,too.
 I look back before I found the board .I was teetering off the edge. It was  horrible . When you feel like you are "losing your mind" and you have no earthly idea how to 'grasp" it,it is like being in the middle of a horror movie.
 I realize ,now, that my M is there. That has made my "forgiving' of her almost effortless. I don't trust her, as I said, b/c she would hurt me today, as easily as she has in the past. She never really changed. I see that. I have become stronger,  is what happened. She "surrendered"---NOT changed.There is a huge difference,of course.She is the same N,as she always was.She just can't hurt me anymore(not TOO much,anyway)
 Thanks for noticing ,Changing.       Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung