Don't we ALL manipulate sometimes?

[reallyME]

I've been wondering, pondering (I know, uh ohhhhh)

When we ask someone something and are expecting a favorable answer, do we not phrase our question so as to MANIPULATE the person's favorable response?

When we post on this board, do we not manipulate to get people to see our side?  Even by just saying what we do, someone will feel lightly urged to see things our way

At least that's how I see it.

I think LIFE is manipulative.  I KNOW sales jobs ARE.  I SEE that children ARE.  N's and BPD's definitely ARE.

Am I?  Well, when I say "I don't mind private messages, bring em on!" doesn't that seem like I want to manipulate people into sending me private messages so i can have attention?  Probably so.

If I say "Go ahead and TRY ME"  I'm egging people on to come at me.

If I say "I don't give a rip"  that's manipulating people by making me appear so strong and noncommital

See what i mean?  Don't we ALL manipulate in some way even when we're just communicating?

Just a thought and by the way, I LOVE pms so bring em on!

Cheers,
Laura

[alone48]

RM,

Yes, you are so right. I have often thought if N were to read this board, he would certainly have a different slant on things. I try sometimes to remember that I definetly want to present it correctly, but of course you tell it how you see it. N had called me manipulative and it threw me, but yes I guess in his eyes I am. I wanted him, so I tried to do what I thought would obtain that goal. Would the question not be, do we manipulate for the purpose of harming or to only be seen in a better light? If so, does one outweigh the other? Again just ranting, had a long emotinal weekend.

[reallyME]

thanks for responding Alone.  I appreciate you.

I know I became manipulative with X toward the end, because i so wanted her to realize that, just cause I was maybe the first one who ever dared to point out the flaws in her home situation, doesn't mean I was the only one or that it was all in my "perception" of things.

I know what I saw and heard and experienced.  I remember it even to this day and will someday be writing about it in a book, but the point was, X would not even consider what I was showing her about herself and how she treated people, me, others, herself.  so, yes, I'm sure my forcefulness in trying to get her to SEE TRUTH, felt very manipulative to her.

ANyone who feels pressured to see something they don't want to see, is going to feel manipulated somehow I think.

~Laura

[changing]

Hi Reallyme-

Life is so full of manipulations, it is true- symbolic and actual. But sometimes a rose is a rose is a rose...
Are you saying that communicating with an agenda of gaining consensus is a manipulation? I would think that planting falsehoods or exerting coersive pressures would be manipulation, but simply persuading openly...? Will have to think about this.

Love,

Changing

[alone48]

I believe we all manipulate, the motivation may be the real question. Small children manipulate their parents, gf with bf, etc. Maybe we should use a different word than manipulation, sounds so sinister.

[Izzy_*now*]

a bit off topic, but related to your post.

I noticed that you told Ami to leave her mother alone as she lives far away.

It is is the past.

Can you do the same about X? I remember that whole miserable story from awayyyyyy back and found it most disturbing!
Izzy

[reallyME]

There is a difference between Bean and me.  X in my case is long gone.  Ami was recently planning to move her mother closer to her, remember?  Her mother is very much still in contact with her and even recently, PHYSICALLY.

I haven't seen X in about 3 years now nor heard from her.

[changing]

Reallyme-

I still think that a nebulous definition of "manipulation" might perhaps make a cogent discussion of it somewhat difficult. It would help me if you could define your terms  a bit more. Does manipulation in the sense you mean it, include all forms of persuasion, or only those which utilize trickery in order to attain a hidden agenda?

Thank you,

Changing

[reallyME]

Well, changing, I guess I was just making a point that we all do things, expecting intended results...not that all manipulation was bad, but that most human interractions are "manipulative" of another person in some way.

~Laura

[Bella_French]

Laura,

I think theres an enormous difference between influence and manipulation.  Manipulation is an act that limits another person's power to choose, and disregards the rights of others. Influence is the art of getting what you want from others, but its inherently respectful.

A person of `Influence' accepts `no' for an answer, and often with good cheer. The relationships is not upset because of it; that person is not made to feel threatened or uncomfortable for saying `no'.

A `manipulator' will not accept `no' for an answer , because they do not respect the rights of others. They will often become surly,  reject the relationship, act coldly, use pressure or threats to get what they want.

Respectful people don't manipulate, they influence.

Abusive people manipulate.

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
  I was thinking about this question. It is really a form of the question that I always ask about our "shadow side". I guess that we all have the potential to do everything. I guess the important point is what we "give" in to. Would like to hear people's comments.
 Thanks Laura,for your fearless honesty,once again.        Love   Ami

[Leah]

Laura,

I think theres an enormous difference between influence and manipulation.  Manipulation is an act that limits another person's power to choose, and disregards the rights of others. Influence is the art of getting what you want from others, but its inherently respectful.

A person of `Influence' accepts `no' for an answer, and often with good cheer. The relationships is not upset because of it; that person is not made to feel threatened or uncomfortable for saying `no'.

A `manipulator' will not accept `no' for an answer , because they do not respect the rights of others. They will often become surly,  reject the relationship, act coldly, use pressure or threats to get what they want.

Respectful people don't manipulate, they influence.

Abusive people manipulate.

Thank you, Bella,

For explaining with such clarity the difference between 'Influencing' and 'Manipulating'

As you rightly highlight, the truth, that Respectful people don't manipulate, but rather, they influence, to good effect and outcome.

Leah

[reallyME]

Ya know, Ami

I'm not so sure lately just how "fearless" my honesty is.  There are a few people exhibiting some tough defense mechanisms on here that I find quite daunting, to say the least.

~Laura

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
  It helps me to remember that I am here to find my voice. I have made wonderful friends,of whom I consider you one. I have had warm times.I have helped people and people have helped me. However , the most important thing for us is to discover that part of us that we had to give up--our voice. If people don't '"get"you, it doesn't matter. Some will. Some won't.You are  very special to some,like me, and many others,too. You are here to find your unique "song ", Laura. That is how I see it, anyway.               Love   Ami

[Leah]

For me, personally, the reason I am here is to share, support, learn, and grow.

It's NOT all about the 'board' and 'other people's current mode ot thinking, or not'

I am grateful for Bella writing with such clarity something that I have struggled to explain, myself, in real life, as a human being.

How much more do we really need to excavate beneath the 'board'?

Surely, the digging part is done?  

Thinking Positively and 'outside the box' ........... It would be so much better to build on a new foundation, maybe?  Hopefully.

But then, that just something positive that occured to me, so ignore or compost, as one wishes.   

Leah