Don't we ALL manipulate sometimes?

[Bella_French]

Laura,

I think theres an enormous difference between influence and manipulation.  Manipulation is an act that limits another person's power to choose, and disregards the rights of others. Influence is the art of getting what you want from others, but its inherently respectful.

A person of `Influence' accepts `no' for an answer, and often with good cheer. The relationships is not upset because of it; that person is not made to feel threatened or uncomfortable for saying `no'.

A `manipulator' will not accept `no' for an answer , because they do not respect the rights of others. They will often become surly,  reject the relationship, act coldly, use pressure or threats to get what they want.

Respectful people don't manipulate, they influence.

Abusive people manipulate.

Thank you, Bella,

For explaining with such clarity the difference between 'Influencing' and 'Manipulating'

As you rightly highlight, the truth, that Respectful people don't manipulate, but rather, they influence, to good effect and outcome.

Leah

Thankyou Leahsrainbow!!

I struggled with the question myself after a relationship with an N.  N's project so many of their own motives onto others. They see the worst in people, because they don't understand goodness and empathy. If you've been around that kind of abuse,especially in a family or romantic relationship its a struggle to reclaim your own goodness. Sometimes it hard to see it in other people as well.  I've been loved by a good person for 5 years now, and that really helps.

X bella

[Leah]

Thankyou Leahsrainbow!!

I struggled with the question myself after a relationship with an N.  N's project so many of their own motives onto others. They see the worst in people, because they don't understand goodness and empathy. If you've been around that kind of abuse,especially in a family or romantic relationship its a struggle to reclaim your own goodness. Sometimes it hard to see it in other people as well.  I've been loved by a good person for 5 years now, and that really helps.

X bella

Bella,

My problem has always been that I have always looked for the good in people, and so, afterward, I would get slighted for being naive / gullible.

Still prefer to think of good in people.  Not everyone is an N in real life.  I know some truly wonderful people who are respectful in every way.

And thankfully, due to my life choices from a teenager, I have empathy, again, that has been abused in the past, however, healthy boundaries makes a huge difference now.

So very glad to know that you have been loved by a good person for 5 years now, that's truly wonderful, and heartwarming to know.   


Love, Leah

[Bella_French]

Dear Leah, I can relate. I have a kind of inner pendulum that swings from too much trust to very little trust. But you're right; boundaries really help. Now if only people would respect them, lol. People love a good listener, and someone who understands. They want to dive in close, and I rarely know how to stop that. I really have so much to learn.

You are so wise leah; its a pleasure chatting with you!

x bella



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[Leah]

Dear Leah, I can relate. I have a kind of inner pendulum that swings from too much trust to very little trust. But you're right; boundaries really help. Now if only people would respect them, lol. People love a good listener, and someone who understands. They want to dive in close, and I rarely know how to stop that. I really have so much to learn.

You are so wise leah; its a pleasure chatting with you!

x bella


Oh, thank you ever so much, Bella

No one has ever called me wise before, not sure that I am really. 

People have always seemed to want to share their problems, even while standing at a bustop    and I always seem to have been a listener, from a teenager onwards.  Maybe that is due to having interacted so well with adults, from a very young age, in my parents business.

However, my learning is life-long, always learning something new, which I love so much.

Respecting boundaries, now I was just thinking on that subject, while pondering my thoughts and words in response to your thread.   

It is a real pleasure chatting with you too.  Thank you.

Love, Leah

[Whistler]

I think we all manipulate sometimes- I think manipulation is dishonesty, any way you look at it- I guess it depends on the intent and the toll it takes on the other person:

For example, when my wife and I first started having marital problems (when I had gotten eveidence she was seeing someone else), she would tell me how much she really loved me. I believed her- she wanted to kep the marriage going for her own economic purposes.

The worst manipulation tactic was she stayed at a vacation spot for a month after I came home- I had to go back to work. I got the most beautiful card/ love note from her. She told me how much she loved me. how she wanted to be my wife forever and on and on. I had that card on my dresser and would re-read it at night. I felt hopeful.

As it turned out, she was afraid I'd move out before before she got back from vacation- she wanted to keep me "hooked in." And then she went right back to seeing that guy when she got back from vacation.  The humiliation I felt when I figured it out is beyond words.

[Bella_French]

Thats so awful Whistler!!! Its so rough to be manipulated by someone you trust and love, fr the sake of money.  I had a live-in boyfriend once who was having an affair, and had made up his mind to leave me. He didn't let on for months, and in that time had me paying off his debts and he removed our most expensive possessions from the house (he made up a good excuse that I believed). When I finally discovered the truth, I just couldn't believe it. I just couldn't. It was the worst betrayal of my life. The worst part about the financial ruin I experienced was that I was in no position, emotionally, to sort it out. I was a wreck.

Sorry to rant, but i can relate!!!

[Ami]

Dear Whistler and Bella,
  Life just really hurts,sometimes, doesn't it?                Love   Ami



((((((((((((Whistler, Bella))))))))))))))

[Whistler]

Manipulation is dishonesty- I guess we all do it.

But, as a few of you have pointed out, it depends on the extent and damage done.

After I confronted my wife about her possible involvement with another man, our relationship was obviously stressed. But I wanted to believe her.

I came home early from summer vacation because I had to work- she stayed there with son for another month. One day I got the most beautiful, romantic card from her-
She told me how much she really loved me, how much she wanted to be my wife.... on and on. I kept that card on my dresser for months and re-read it every night

I came to find out when she came back from vacation, she went right back to seeing the other man- and she just wanted to keep me "hooked in" for economic purposes
and didn't want me to move out (which we had discussed at one point). The love card was a manipulation.  I felt sooooo humiliated.

I guess my frusatration is/ was that when I would tell these things to people they wouldn't believe me. Counselors believed her. And because I am a man, I must be the one who is being abusive (that is the message I feel I get)

My wife is/ was so manipulative it was beyond most people's belief.  I ended up with PTSD myself - but I'm a guy and I think people would laugh at that.  I was told by one counselor after I said my wife had pushed me and blocked my way out of the room-- "Oh, a big guy like you is afraid of a little woman?" THAT's NOT THE POINT-
Yes, I could have thrown her across the room- and gotten a DV charge against me- but the stress was overwhelming.

I had all of the symptoms of PTSD - thanks for listing those.  The funny thing is I can't find a counselor who will believe me- I was told again "you know, you could have been imagining that."

I know this is going to sound harsh- but it's true to a certain extent- if I were a woman, most people would believe me right away- I would find help easily.
I feel so angry- I still feel "voiceless."

[Whistler]

Sorry I thought I accidently erased my first post.