Our Shadow Side

[Certain Hope]

So, I guess that everyone,so far, says that we HAVE a shadow side,but need to keep it in check.             Ami

Hi, Ami,

That's not my answer, no... not the part about keeping it in check.
Not sure I can make myself clear on this in just a few words, but I don't believe that anyone can overcome the wickedness of the flesh by sheer willpower/trying to be good. I think of Jesus' words: "Without Me, you can do nothing."

Of course, I'm not speaking of mass murderers and such here, just "ordinary" wrong-doing, so to speak...
from the standpoint of the new birth experience, which is the event (and the only event, in my belief) which changes a person from the inside out.

It's like this - the harder I try not to do something (to keep myself "in check"), then the more I'm actually magnifying the wrongdoing (the more I actually am thinking about that thing I don't want to do). Rather than that, I believe that I need to keep my mind and heart focused on Jesus in order to magnify Him... and then the rest melts away. Sorry, it's hard to put into words, but I hope that helped.

Carolyn

[Ami]

Carolyn,
  You are saying that IN Him, you are strong----right?Your strength is from your position and reliance on Him,alone.Do I have that right?   
                                                                                Ami

[Leah]

Correct me if I am wrong in my thinking, as a believer, please do.

If one is a new creation in Christ Jesus, as a believer, and follower of Christ, a disciple with a teachable heart (know what I mean)

well then,

If this person displays behaviour of a 'shadow side'

then,

that person would be 'a wolf in sheep's clothing'

That's what just sprung to mind.

Could be wrong.

Leah

[Certain Hope]

Carolyn,
  You are saying that IN Him, you are strong----right?Your strength is from your position and reliance on Him,alone.Do I have that right?   
                                                                                Ami

Ami,

That's part of it, yes... but not only my strength, also my goodness. Remember when the Pharisees (I think it was) asked Jesus something and they addressed Him as "Good Master"?
Jesus responded to them with a question - Why do you call me good? He asked... "there is no one good, but God."

And another passage (of many, many passages) which tells us that there is no one good, for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

And so I'm saying that anything "good" which I can do is not accredited to my account apart from Christ, because without the new birth in Him, it's all filthy rags. Unless I am born again, I am a slave to sin... but in Him, I am a slave to righteousness.

Oooo Ami, Sorry... I can get really wound up on this topic... will try to keep it short and sweet.

Carolyn

[Ami]

No, Carolyn, Don't keep it short,as far as I am concerned . I need help to put this all together in my mind and to get a peace about it.
 Leah--we still have a flesh ----right?             Ami

[Leah]

Edit

[Ami]

Well. Leah--doesn't the flesh WANT us to do "bad' things?   Also, evil has access to our thoughts--right? So evil thoughts can "come " to us --right? That is not our fault,is it?           Ami

[Leah]

Edit

[Certain Hope]

Thank you, Ami... very much. I will try not to get too long-winded tho...

I'd recommend Romans 7 re: the flesh -  vs. 18-25 - where Paul explains:

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good {is} not.  
  For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.  
  But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.  
   I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.  
 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,  
 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.  
  Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?  
  Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.  

In reading this, please remember that the born again disciple of Jesus has received a new spirit and is to walk by the Holy Spirit, and not by the flesh.

Also, please note that Jesus said His disciples are to deny themselves, not crucify themselves.
 The actual death of the born again believer's flesh occurred on the cross - Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 5:24   Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Note the past tense used there... it's a done deal. The old man is dead    just sometimes his stinking corpse likes to reach up from the grave and grab us.

Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

Ami and Leah... please note that I am trying not to butt into your portion of the conversation here...

and I'm not looking for a medal, either - lol... just explaining that I'm posting responses to previous questions and not doing a very good job of keeping up. (((((((both of you))))))

Carolyn

[Ami]

So, back to my original question, Carolyn,, if a believer in Jesus has 'bad " thoughts --where are they coming from----the old dead corpse? 
                                                               Ami

[Leah]

Edit

[Certain Hope]

So, back to my original questionCarolyn,, if a believer in Jesus has 'bad " thoughts --where are they coming from----the old dead corpse? 
                                                               Ami

Yes, mostly, I believe Ami... exactly.

The flesh.

And the battlefield is the mind, which is why it is so critical that we keep our minds focused on the Lord Jesus and renew them daily to His truth.

One example which really registers with me is the apostle Peter. We always hear about how he failed to walk on the water...
but when I read it closely, I see that this man actually did walk on the water... for a brief moment, he did!
And then what are we told?
He considered the wind and the waves...
Well, what did Peter have to do in order to take the time to consider his physical surroundings?
He had to take his eyes off of Jesus.

And don't forget... we're not told that Peter sank... only that he began to sink... and then he called out to the Lord to save him.

That's an example worthy of note!

Another old saying which may help you = a quote from Martin Luther...
You can't keep the birds from flying over your head, but you can certainly prevent them from building a nest in your hair.

You see? It's not a sin to be tempted and it's not sinful to have bad thoughts float in and out. It's in that second look where we risk latching onto them, when we nurse the wrong thoughts and allow them to begin to take root (build a nest).

Carolyn

[Lupita]

According to cognitive therapy you can control your thoughts. You can replace your thoughts with more positive rational thoughts.

You have to identify the thoughts first.

Can you share what are the bad thoughts that you have?

I am trying to replace my negative thoughts. I have been partially successful. I have more good moments now than I used to.

Do you have bad thoughts of killing? commiting adultery? what are your bad thoughts?

You have posted so many times about that.


Coming back to what we were talking about, you cannot get to a conclusion now, there is too much to analize.
Environment, genetics, faith, education, parent relationship, race, culture, etc.

Did you know that there is more suicied among the white race than the african american race?

Do you know that white race dehidrate more eaasily than the rest of the races? The last race to die of dehydration is asian. The more resistant.

There are many things to consider.

[Certain Hope]

In reading this, please remember that the born again disciple of Jesus has received a new spirit and is to walk by the Holy Spirit, and not by the flesh.

But, the born again disciple can walk in the flesh, in rebellion or disobedience, or what ever.

Else, how come some born agains do some dreadful things.

My exNH for one.

Leah


PS >  Please don't feel the need to apologize to me for joining in the discussion, as you are more than welcome, Carolyn      No medals.

Thank you, Leah
It is easy for me to try to answer all the questions all at once and really become a buttinski, so... I was trying to keep pace.
This is an area of passionate interest for me, so I get really into it.

Yes, we must never forget the deadliness of sin and recognize that a repeated falling away into sinful lifestyles (emphasis on lifestyles, not the occasional slip) can lead to a seriously hardened heart which may refuse to heed the warnings/convictions/guidings of the Holy Spirit.

Carolyn

P.S.  My ex husband, npd, claimed to be a born again believer. I never saw a single sign of that, though.