Article on the neurobiology of mother-child attachment

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday's New York Times had a very interesting article on the neurobiology of mother-child attachment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/29/health/psychology/29bond.html

"This latest study is the largest and best of its kind and provides very strong evidence that maternal support has an opiate component," said Dr. Jaak Panksepp, an emeritus professor of psychology at Bowling Green State University in Ohio, who more than two decades ago was the first to propose that opiate receptors were important in forming mother-child bonds."

Also, from the author of the article:

"Warm, attentive parenting can in fact help baby animals overcome some genetic differences.  In a series of experiments, scientists at McGill University in Montreal have shown that baby rats repeatedly groomed, cuddled and licked by their mothers grow up to be less anxious than those that received less coddling.  In a study appearing in the current issue of nature Neuroscience, the McGill researchers report that this physical mothering early in life prompts long-lasting changes in the rats' genes that help the animals manage stress throughout their lives."

And:

"'The important part of all this is what we're showing that an attentive caregiver can actually alter the baby's genes, for the better,' Dr. Schore said."

Very interesting read!

Richard

p.s.  I believe that attachment and its neurobiological correlates are key to the success of long term therapy.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the link. I read the article. This will hopefully help with social policy, insurance for therapy, etc.

If "attachment and its neurobiological correlates are key to the success of long term therapy" (agreed), then I am apprehensive about some therapists who are out there. They aren't able to deal with the patient's attachment issues, they exhibit  countertransference, they retraumatize the patient, etc. A former therapist of mine worshipped Schore and tried to loan me his book. She was a huge narcissist who kept talking about herself during the session, even after I got angry with her. I knew more about her life than I ever wanted to know. She was very attached to me and gave me a necklace. She even told me that she wanted to give it her daughter but it was more my style! I also formed an attachment to her that should have been analyzed, but wasn't, since she kept talking about herself. It took me years to decide to leave, and I even knew what was going on.

I guess I'm venting.


bunny

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Bunny,

Thanks for your comment.  I’m sorry you had such a bad experience.  If much of the benefit of therapy comes from the consequences of a healthy attachment, who the therapist is—as a human being—is critical.   I’m afraid that most of the inadequate or hurtful therapists are not lacking in training or qualifications (often they have plenty of these), it is something about their “personhood” that gets in the way.  Obviously, this does not matter so much for cognitive behavioral or other short-term therapists—but if you are going to make an attachment to a therapist, first and foremost, you need to find a wonderful human being.  How one does this is another question…

Best wishes and thanks for all of your wisdom,

Richard

p.s.  no underachievement on this board!

[Anonymous]

Hi Richard,

You're right. The 'personhood' of the therapist is usually the problem. And thanks for your nice words and feedback.

 

bunny

[Anonymous]

It is my belief that many N mothers are actually very good in the early stages of motherhood - the baby is needy, and later adoring of the mother and is an excellent source of N supply. The Mother is in total control and therefore happy.

I think that the problems start later, maybe around 2 when the child begins to assert itself, to say 'No', and shows signs of separating that the problems begin.

I would welcome your comments on this

Jessie

[Anonymous]

It is my belief that many N mothers are actually very good in the early stages of motherhood - the baby is needy, and later adoring of the mother and is an excellent source of N supply. The Mother is in total control and therefore happy.

I think that the problems start later, maybe around 2 when the child begins to assert itself, to say 'No', and shows signs of separating that the problems begin.

My mother certainly prefers infants for the reasons you mention. However, she projects her N-stuff on infants from day one (observing her with grandchildren). She will even say a tiny infant is "spoiled" or "just wants his own way." So I don't think that N's make especially good mothers at any time.


bunny

[Anonymous]

My own n-mother was very good in caring for young infants...that was part of her narcissistic supply. But she did have the notion that too much nurturing would spoil the child. She would care for phyical needs very well, but never understood a child's emotional needs. And by physical needs I mean she would feed us, bathe us, but she never was a cuddly mother. My earliest memory is of her putting me in a crib in a dark room and shutting the door. When I cried because I was being left alone, she came back angry instead of comforting. That was the scenario every night for a long time, until my father installed a night light.

I must have had separation anxiety anyway. My N-mother adopted me as an infant. I find the discission of biochemistry and nurturing to be fascinating...especially with the information I now have about my birth mother insisting she be allowed to care for me in my first few days of life.

As I grew into the person I was born to be, she seemed to dislike me more and more. I really felt as though I was a nuisance to her, rather than someone she loved. If she couldn't brag about me to her friends, I was useless to her. That continued well into my adulthood.

[October]

I agree absolutely with your comment about attachment being so important, and in particular that with a mother.  My own mum was not there for me, and I had a substitute in my brother, just 18 months older than me.  Then in turn I mothered my younger brother.  Which means that now I can get on fine with either married or gay men, but cannot relate to single men, or those who are too interested in me, if you understand that.  Brothers are fine. Anything else I don't know what to do with.

Why is it therefore that I have had one therapist after another get all twitchy at the thought that I might become - horror of horrors - dependent on their support, or even fall in love with them, while I am telling them that I don't do dependent.  That I do not connect with people, and that my pattern is to always walk away from them to avoid being hurt, because the pain of connecting is too high a price to pay.

Even so, I have had one therapist (my first, before I knew the rules well enough to stop what he did) accuse me of developing an unnatural obsession with him, and of being in love with him.  I leave you to imagine how hurtful that was, and how traumatic the whole process of self examination in case he might be right - what has he seen in me, what have I said, what have I done.  I could easily have been driven mad except for a third person who knew us both, and who said very clearly that the t was mistaken, and that the issues were his and not mine.  It made me very careful after that to label my behaviours, and to ensure that professional boundaries are very carefully established and kept - for my sake.

Why do therapists get so worried about dependency?  I have a daughter, and am not at all bothered about dependency, because I see it as a natural part of any relationship, and one that changes with changing circumstances; you need me today, I need you tomorrow.  What is wrong with that?

If I am not allowed to even begin to relate to a t, there is nothing for me to gain from any therapy, imo.  The worst of all was psychotherapy, when I was told to expect 'gentle counselling'.  It was hugely damaging.  I couldn't understand why it was happening, or what the t was trying to achieve, and he explained nothing; he just sat and glowered at me for 15 sessions, while denying the reality of what I told him,  and left me in a very bad state.   Can't even begin to understand that one.

However, current t seems very much better. She listens.  She understands why I need information, and she explains what she is doing and why.  And if I am not able to talk she helps me find coping strategies instead.  I think the t will not last very long, but meanwhile I am growing stronger, bit by bit.

[October]

I agree absolutely with your comment about attachment being so important, and in particular that with a mother.  My own mum was not there for me, and I had a substitute in my brother, just 18 months older than me.  Then in turn I mothered my younger brother.  Which means that now I can get on fine with either married or gay men, but cannot relate to single men, or those who are too interested in me, if you understand that.  Brothers are fine. Anything else I don't know what to do with.

Why is it therefore that I have had one therapist after another get all twitchy at the thought that I might become - horror of horrors - dependent on their support, or even fall in love with them, while I am telling them that I don't do dependent.  That I do not connect with people, and that my pattern is to always walk away from them to avoid being hurt, because the pain of connecting is too high a price to pay.

Even so, I have had one therapist (my first, before I knew the rules well enough to stop what he did) accuse me of developing an unnatural obsession with him, and of being in love with him.  I leave you to imagine how hurtful that was, and how traumatic the whole process of self examination in case he might be right - what has he seen in me, what have I said, what have I done.  I could easily have been driven mad except for a third person who knew us both, and who said very clearly that the t was mistaken, and that the issues were his and not mine.  It made me very careful after that to label my behaviours, and to ensure that professional boundaries are very carefully established and kept - for my sake.

Why do therapists get so worried about dependency?  I have a daughter, and am not at all bothered about dependency, because I see it as a natural part of any relationship, and one that changes with changing circumstances; you need me today, I need you tomorrow.  What is wrong with that?

If I am not allowed to even begin to relate to a t, there is nothing for me to gain from any therapy, imo.  The worst of all was psychotherapy, when I was told to expect 'gentle counselling'.  It was hugely damaging.  I couldn't understand why it was happening, or what the t was trying to achieve, and he explained nothing; he just sat and glowered at me for 15 sessions, while denying the reality of what I told him,  and left me in a very bad state.   Can't even begin to understand that one.

However, current t seems very much better. She listens.  She understands why I need information, and she explains what she is doing and why.  And if I am not able to talk she helps me find coping strategies instead.  I think the t will not last very long, but meanwhile I am growing stronger, bit by bit.

[Spirit]

Yes this is very helpful in understanding certain questions I have about my childhood and my mothers nurturing or the lack of it. I have no memorries atall of her lifting me or holding me. She was never warm to me or anyone else. She has no friends and she is so uncomfortable with children. Mention children and she would RUN. Even if a child wanted to play with her.. she would smile sweetly give him/hre a book and disappear int othe kitchen sayinmg that she had to cook food for the childs sake. I remember once when one of my relatives was not well and asked my mom to bring her kid from school... she felt so uncomfortable ..cos she claimed that 'she was not familiar wit hthat situation.. and that the kid was very naughty adn that she didnt want to take the relsponsibility   My dad is just the extreme.. he dwells on kids.. he would even intervene int oother families and claim that thier parenting is bad.. and would try plant himself as a caretaker parent

Another thought I got from Octobers reply.. I am very uncomfortable with single women.. when I am left in that situation I usually try to run.. perhaps thats my experience with my mom.. I knew she would dump me and wanted to get myself away inorfer to please her. Some how I am good with kids even though I am initially very shy. I can get along with married women, gay men, couples or even group of women. Single women or bunch of single guys with al lthat macho talk.. run is my instinct.

[Anonymous]

I can get on fine with either married or gay men, but cannot relate to single men, or those who are too interested in me, if you understand that.  Brothers are fine. Anything else I don't know what to do with.

Maybe every man gets a "brother" projection and then he's off limits.

Even so, I have had one therapist (my first, before I knew the rules well enough to stop what he did) accuse me of developing an unnatural obsession with him, and of being in love with him.

What a *jerk*. That's the reason I vented earlier in this thread. The quacks out there calling themselves therapists!

It made me very careful after that to label my behaviours, and to ensure that professional boundaries are very carefully established and kept - for my sake.

It sucks that *you* have to be careful and ensure the professional boundaries. I'm seeing a male therapist for the first time. I told him that I'd be horrified to develop a crush on him, yet feared it would inevitably happen. He was very calm about it.

Why do therapists get so worried about dependency?  I have a daughter, and am not at all bothered about dependency, because I see it as a natural part of any relationship, and one that changes with changing circumstances; you need me today, I need you tomorrow.  What is wrong with that?

They shouldn't be worried about dependency. They should be able to deal with it. But there are loser therapists out there.

However, current t seems very much better. She listens.  She understands why I need information, and she explains what she is doing and why.  And if I am not able to talk she helps me find coping strategies instead.  I think the t will not last very long, but meanwhile I am growing stronger, bit by bit.

Why won't she last long?

bunny

[October]

Hiya Bunny

I am sure you are right about the brother projection.  And it seems to be to protect them, rather than me.  I think I have inherited some strange ideas about what women are.

Gay men understand straight away - no problems at all.  With many of them I can go fairly quickly past being acquaintances to emotional intimacy, without strings.  But the only straight man I achieved emotional intimacy with was my first t, who allowed the relationship to develop from t into friendship, so that he could tell me about his experiences (in my sessions!) and then could not cope with what I knew about him, so he dropped me like a stone, and dumped me on someone else (the third person, who was not a t, but a friend).  

The t was a vicar, so I wrote to the bishop to say what had happened, because I thought he should not be counselling other women, but the bishop just told me to let him go, and that this often happens with women and vicars.  I felt really sordid and dirty - which I suppose is the sexuality I was taught about myself.  Like I had tried to seduce this 'innocent' man.  It makes me blush to think that anyone thought I would do that.  My daughter was friends with his daughters.  I knew his wife.  I made them a cake for their wedding anniversary party in the church hall, and for his induction at his new church.  

Sorry, must stop thinking about it; ptsd makes you stick on one subject too long, sometimes.  (often).  But as you can see, it hurts.  



In answer to why will the t not last long, this is NHS provision, and the NHS in my area does not provide long term support, even for people like me with cptsd.  The only long term provision is for eating disorders, so I have a clinical psychologist who specialises in eating disorders, but who has made herself available to me because I need more than 12 week support.  It is not open ended.  At present the notional length of support gives me until September.

Last time I saw my psychiatrist he said I was being too negative in thinking that I could not be cured in 12 weeks - or even 6, he said.  Stupid man.  He told me to return to see him a month later, but I didn't see the point.  Two months later and he hasn't noticed.  When I told this to my current t she smiled and said what makes you think he is in charge?  I said I  had no idea who is in charge, or who is making these kinds of decisions.  Sadly, I still have no idea.  She only said it is not him, it is 'us'.  But I do not know who that means.  Meanwhile, I don't care.  I take each week as it comes, and try to gain what I can while I can, before the next t desert of months or years comes along.

So no chance to relax or feel safe.  Just a brief respite, and then I am on my own again.

[October]

It sucks that *you* have to be careful and ensure the professional boundaries. I'm seeing a male therapist for the first time. I told him that I'd be horrified to develop a crush on him, yet feared it would inevitably happen. He was very calm about it.

bunny

Aren't they always calm about it?  They just love it!!  There is such a lot of arrogance and tacit superiority about therapy, and very little partnership in healing, which is what I always try to find, usually without success.

And if you say it won't happen, they just label it denial and imagine that you are madly in love all the time.  Just as any question about the type of therapy is labelled acting out.

I am very wary of t these days, as you can see.  

[Anonymous]

But the only straight man I achieved emotional intimacy with was my first t, who allowed the relationship to develop from t into friendship, so that he could tell me about his experiences (in my sessions!) and then could not cope with what I knew about him, so he dropped me like a stone, and dumped me on someone else (the third person, who was not a t, but a friend).

This is highly unethical. I'm very sorry you were abused by this creep.
 

The t was a vicar, so I wrote to the bishop to say what had happened, because I thought he should not be counselling other women, but the bishop just told me to let him go, and that this often happens with women and vicars.

 

Please check out this website! There are articles about unethical and colluding clergy, including in the UK and Australia:

http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/articles_clergy.asp

Last time I saw my psychiatrist he said I was being too negative in thinking that I could not be cured in 12 weeks - or even 6, he said.  Stupid man.  He told me to return to see him a month later, but I didn't see the point.  Two months later and he hasn't noticed.

Being too negative??! (sound of mind boggling) Words escape me.

When I told this to my current t she smiled and said what makes you think he is in charge?  I said I  had no idea who is in charge, or who is making these kinds of decisions.  Sadly, I still have no idea.  She only said it is not him, it is 'us'.  But I do not know who that means.  Meanwhile, I don't care.  I take each week as it comes, and try to gain what I can while I can, before the next t desert of months or years comes along.

I agree that he isn't in charge. You're in charge of your own life. I don't exactly know what's meant by "us" unless she's referring to you and her as a team working together. Perhaps you can ask her.

I'm really sorry that you only get 12 weeks, that is a shame.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Aren't they always calm about it?  They just love it!!  There is such a lot of arrogance and tacit superiority about therapy, and very little partnership in healing, which is what I always try to find, usually without success.

I don't think they're all like this. If they were, I wouldn't see a therapist. I would dump mine quickly if he appeared to obtain gratification from any of my statements to him.

bunny