More Anger

[Ami]

I feel "guilty" writing this b/c my F was not nearly as bad as many F's here.However, I feel  angry at him and it is a valid anger. I never felt "real" anger toward him.
 When he would buy me jewelry or presents as a kid, I would lose  them. I did not know why, consciously.
  My  M was the N(Yes, she has changed ,so I am not sure where that leaves her ,now, as far as a diagnosis),but when I was growing up, she fit Vaknin, perfectly. My F was the appeaser. I thought that he was wonderful . He WAS  compared to her. However, I could smash him ,now(lol) He is a blank person---a vapid person.This is just an example . When my H was abusing me and my son, my F's question was ,"What kind of life did he(my H) have? My friend,John said that any "man "would have gotten the SIL in a headlock and told him that he would  "kill "him, if he touched his D and GS, again. .When my M would rage, he would be as shut down ,a any of the kids.I always thought that he chose not to help me, but he really could not help it. I see that,now.                                                                                                                                    The biggest bite is my seeing how *I* am just like him in many ways--please, please, please---bleh. God Forbid, s/one will get angry at me. Then,I have to dance a jig to appease them, just like my F.I am a people pleaser and I am constantly trying to outrun shame..
   The worst part of this whole thing is seeing how MY wimpiness led to Scott's death. I let my H take Scott over, little by little. I stopped fighting my H.
 I really wimped out a long,long time ago when I was to weak to leave him, but I WAS too weak to  leave him .I did  not get in my H's face enough and go to battle for Scott.
  I was a wimp,like my F and that is why I can't stand to see my F.
 I guess that since I faced my anger at my M and reconciled with her, now I am facing my anger at my F.
  Being a concilatory wimp in a family is guilt by omission. I was that with Scott.
 I became just like my F---bleh.Now, I am like him ,too.
   

[alone48]

Ami,

I always loved both my aunt and uncle, but believed he was the "good" one of the two. She was the disciplinarian and took care of business in the family. She had a heart attack and when I went to the hospital to see her, she looked awful. I asked the nurse what was going on as this didn't look like anything to do with the heart attack. She answered " well, it's nice to know someone noticed and cares". It turned out that she had been addicted to pain killers and had been doctor shopping to get double prescriptions. I went to talk with her and she said she didn't want to go home because she was tired of taking care of everyone else. I told her I would come help her after she got out of the hospital, I had missed the whole point of what she was saying, She died the day she was to be released.

I started having my uncle over for dinner several times a week and began to realize that he had been able to be the "good" one at her expense, he actually was quite selfish, self centered, and not a very nice person. My question is, do we marry people that compliment us so that we can hide our flaws? Is it intentional or just a natural instinct that draws us to each other?

[Overcomer]

Am-I do not know if I will ever get the chance at being mad at my dad.  I have my mom for taking away his manhood.  But maybe he is the one who will not step up to the plate.  Now his health is so bad I think he will not live a long life.  Did your H drive Scott over the edge?  Any if he did I would be more than angry.  But right now your emotions are all over the place I am sure and anger is a big part of it. 

[Ami]

Dear Alone,CB and Kelly,
  This thread turned out to be so interesting. I was reluctant to post it b/c I felt guilty about "dissing" the good one(my F)--lol.
  Alone, I have two stories similar to yours with a friend and a cousin.
  It is interersting WHAT happened with my F. I expressed my true feelings to him about how he never stood up and helped me ,as a child, or with an abusive H. He apologized and told me that I was helping him by sharing my feelings with him. He said that he wanted to grow and I was a "teacher"(lol)
 He said that he would call me ,after he thought about it, and we could discuss it more.
 Kelly, I am very angry at my H. It is confusing to see my part in it, with my H. My books from a Biblical perspective say that a man needs to support the woman and be kind to her when she is in the vulnerable position of having and taking care of babies. He is responsible for caring for her ,in a kind way.
  I am trying to see the truth and then go forward. It is confusing,in many ways.       Love   Ami

[Ami]

Dear Kelly,
  I was thinking about your question about anger toward my H. My M said s/thing profound before she left. She said ,'Don't listen to any advice or viewpoints your H has to give you. Just ignore them."
 It is hitting me,now, what she meant.
  Our "connection" is not a life giving one. I see the types of things he is saying to me ,now. I  am really surprised how  life  "stealing" the whole relatiionship is and HAS been.
  I   see that he (and people) are victims of their circumstances, when they are in denial, and my H is no exception. The only thing that *I* can do is see the truth and get strong--both of which I am doing.
  I need to face that my H is not any sort of "soul" food , for me. He provides physical comforts,of which I am very grateful at the moment.
 However, emotionally, my H will pull me down to a dark place if I do not face the truth, which I am. It is a relief to face the truth. I am just sitting with it, right now. It is enough to just see it. My body and mind  are breathing a sigh of relief.
  Kelly, I am with you to help in ANY way I can.          Love   Ami
 

[alone48]

Ami,

My son's parked car was hit Fri night and most likely it will be a total loss (bent the frame, rack &pinon etc). I was out of town, about fifty miles away, with some gf's when my son callled me at 11:00 at night. He was quite upset (he's 18) and wanted to know what to do. While he called the police I called my ex (his father) ans asked him to go be with him (they were probably about 5 miles apart) He begrudginly did, but then stepped up and seemed to be quite a bit of assistance. It was a hit and run and the kid that hit the car was found and brought to the scene. The policeman actually berated my son for calling it in as a hit and run, though the kid was brought back by another police man in handcuffs??? The next morning, I got up early to return home and assist, I called my ex to get an update on the situation. I thanked him profusely and advised of when I would be home.

The point of all of this is, my girlfriend who had been listening in  said " why are you thanking him, like it isn't his son too?" That's just our nature to be the giver and think when someone else gives that it's the exception, not what they should have done. I expect so little from others, but that doesn't seem to be the case of what others expect from me, did I set this up. I believe so. Not everyone I met was a taker, but when you allow it for so long, they start to expect also, like the N, even if they aren't N's.

[Ami]

Dear Alone,
  I am sorry about your son and the car. I am glad that his F helped. Your friend was right. It was his son, after all.Life can be such a bleh ,sometimes--can't it, Alone?       Love   Ami


((((((((Alone))))))))))

[alone48]

Ami,

Thank you so much, but it was only a car. I was so grateful he wasn't in it since the kid had to have been going pretty fast when it was hit. I have to tell you, I thought of you when he called, my thoughts and prayers are with you often.

[Ami]

Thank You, Alone. You have been such a good friend to me. It is good that we are taking as many lessons as we can from his death.I know that I am trying to. You are right about your perspective about the car, Alone  .         Love   Ami

[Ami]

I need this anger thread. I am coming out of  denial about my H. .I see that there are deep patterns in which  he will  give with one hand ,but  push me down ,emotionally (badly) with the other .I am forced to look back and try to make sense of what happened to Scott.   I need to sort it out in order  to go on .
   It was a '"normal" thing (in our family)that he would  try to "turn my sons against me". He really could not, until Scott got in to the last years of high school. My kids and I were  close b/c I stayed home . We built  bonds based on spending time and doing activities ,together.
 I was not strong enough or wise enough to get out, at any point along the way.My parents colluded with him and I  felt totally alone and paralyzed.I became weaker and weaker.
 I look back and see that my real problem ( and it WAS a real problem) was weakness. Scott did not see me as strong enough to go toe to toe with his F(to defend Scott) .
 Once, my H held a heavy chair over my head . I thought he would smash it on me . Scott was in high school. He was standing across the room and told me that he would have beaten up his F, at that moment,if his F did not put down the chair. I was in denial of how bad it was b/c I was too weak to do anything.
  So, these were the dynamics. Scott used to have dreams in which  he would beat up his F.
 What I did was abdicate my life.
 My older son could face and talk about the truth ,but Scott kept trying to put his F as a role model. For Scott to "side with his F", he had to "disllike" his B and me, whom he really loved deeply.iI was a huge conflict for him and he felt guilty and would express it to me, crying.
  When Scott was in high school, I started  abdicating my life even more.
 My H took Scott on college trips and Scott decided that my H would be his role model. He started pulling away ,emotionally ,from his B and me.
 Scott wanted to be a doctor like my H. Scott thought that he would be a faliure,if he could not be a doctor. Scott started getting crazy ideas ,like if he could not be  a doctor, he would be nothing. The irony was he could have easily been a doctor,if he wanted it.However, that is NOT the point. Scott got pulled in to "crazy" thinking b/c he stopped being honest. Then, his thinking  got worse and worse over the last two years.
  My role was weakness. I should have called the police ,COUNTLESS times.. I was too weak and Scott could have still been here ,if I had been strong enough to beat my H down.It was that simple, I think. If I could only have beaten him down,the way that I can do,now, with my M and him. So simple and yet ,so out of reach from where I was.
  Could I have beaten him down? I guess not. I was too weak, by my NM and  her lies, and then my H's lies  and ,then,  my own.I  bellieved the lies, in whatever order they came.By then, I was underwater.
  That is the story of my marriage. Now, my H wants me to tell him that it wasn't "his fault". Well, it was everyone's fault.He is very angry at me b/c I will not tell him that it was 'not his fault. He wants me to reassure him about his role and I won't. I am not the one that he should turn to to absolve his guilt. I have to face my OWN guilt and that is all.
   I have goals. One is to get strong, which I will. Scott paid for my weakness, and now ,in honor of him, I will get strong.
 I will go to a support group. I will take the Scripture,"Perfect Love Casts out Fear" and know ,again, that it WILL work, b/c the Scriptures always do what they promise.
 So, as I get strong,  I will see the way  ,IF my eyes are open and I have dispensed with fear.
 It is only a little over a week ,after Scott's death, but I  I know my mistakes , I think. . The path will open so I can go forward,in the right way.    Thanks for listening----so much.Any comments would be appreciated. Maybe, I am  seeing ,incorrectly. I am open to suggestions.                         Ami

[Ami]

All of a sudden, I was standing in the kitchen , a wave of dizziness came over me, and I realized  what happened to Scott. Also, I can never look at my H the same way,again. I am really afraid.
 My H had been trying to turn my sons against me since they were small, but to no avail.  He never suceeded, when the kids were small. As Scott grew older, Scott achieved all the things that made my H proud,grades, athletics.
My H started taking him over ,and part of that was 'turning him against his B and me". As I got more "underwater" by not facing the truth of life, my H ,finally, suceeded in getting Scott, as his ally.
  S/times Scott would call me and cry about how he felt that he has a horrible person b/c he never stood up against his F and protected my other son and me. *I* was the one who should have stood up-----NOT him,of course.Here was my fault,in the drama.
 Scott felt so guilty b/c he loved his B and me. Scott used to say that he was a wimp b/c he could not stand up.
  I see it all, now.
Scot could not live with the guilt of being "taken over' by his F. My H will not face any of this. I told my H that *I* am not the one for him to come to to absolve his guilt.
  I told him everything that I said here, and he hung up on me.
 I am really afraid of being "alone'. I am really afraid of getting a divorce, BUT I can't lie anymore. I have been forced out of denial and I am out.
  I am just scared out of my wits,but you can't unscramble eggs i.e. you can't put denial back in the jar, with the lid on------bleh.
                    Ami

[Hermes]

Dear Ami..
You are having a tough old time of it.  And I wish you lots of strength, and every good thing you could wish for yourself.  Things will happen by degrees, Ami, and one day this horrible person will be just the past.  Getting a divorce is no fun, that is the truth.  The idea of being alone can be terrifying, like an unknown journey to another planet.  But when you get to that planet, you find out how great it is.  Usually the fear is far worse than the reality.

I know you will find peace, the peace that you deserve, and a rich life that you also deserve.

All the best
Hermes

[Ami]

Thank you, Hermes, for your voice, all the way from Ireland. It helps to be heard about having a tough time of it. How about coming out of a lifetime of denial in a week(LOL)?
  Thanks for being there, Friend. I really mean it!                      Love   Ami

[Hermes]

Heh heh Ami.  Stranger things have happened.  LOL
I do hope you have friends there in real life to help and support you.  Just sitting down, having a coffee and chatting can do so much good.

As for fear, well what can I say.

Fear was a sort of unknown quantity to me, prior to the N-experience.  It may be hard to believe what I am about to tell you.

I have been driving since I was 17 (not today or yesterday I might add LOL).  Well, post N, I found that I could not get in behind the wheel, no way.  Unbelievable that one could be affected to that degree by an N-experience, but that awful experience pervades all aspects of ones experience.
 I had to book five "lessons" with a driving school, as I knew it was the only way I could maybe try again.  A nice instructress arrived on the first day, and off we went.  She said: "but you drive etc. etc."  I made up a story about how I had had a little accident and had lost my nerve.  (some accident LOL).  I told no one I had taken those "lessons". 
I am glad to report that I bought my own car some time after, and simply got back to where I was before the N.

All the best
Hermes

[Ami]

THAT is cute, Hermes, especially about making up the "little story". I have 3 D friends, but the board offers me a certain solace which  is different. You understand in a way that many people do not, or will not admit to,even to  themselves.
  I don't have to "explain" pain and "craziness" here. You, guys, get it(LOL), for better or worse!           Love   Ami