Safe People

[Leah]

In truth, Leah, and in Christ, and as I told you the last time I replied to one of your posts to me, I do not feel very good after interacting with you. I will continue to search my own heart about my feelings, and in the meanwhile, that's all I have to say about it.

Carolyn


That is not true, and you know it, Carolyn

However, it has answered something that has been a concern.

As to you why, suddenly, you have been cold to me, after YOUR email telling me that if I were to post anything again that was incorrect on the board, then you would let me know by PM and not straight onto the board.

To which I replied, that I did not mind either way, that you could point out something Spiritually Incorrect on my part,

either out onto the Board, or by PM, as my only true concern was that I did not lead anyone astray.

In light of what you say, now, I am happy to post the PM from you, and to you, which was the last PM's either way between us, onto the board, for the sake of honesty.

I have prayed about this, as your cutting me off, puzzled me, as I did not understand why.

The Lord always brings things out into truth.

And you never ever said that to me, you may have thought it, in your defensiveness, though why that should be, was a puzzle, which I truly understand, as you shared on your thread entitled "Buzz Off!" -- though I did not know, at the time, that it was a personal thread, so I posted onto it about my parents, as for me, it was validation and enlightenment, about my parents.

So I offered it up to the Lord, that I know, in the Bible.


Remember, I never Pm'd you, it was you who iniated PMing with me, with scripture.


Your recent coldness toward me was confusing, but, I chose to understand you, with compassion.

In Christ, in truth,

Leah


PS >  What confused me was, that you posting that you always felt like a whole person around me, and valued my postings, and scriptures etc.

[Certain Hope]

In truth, Leah, and in Christ, and as I told you the last time I replied to one of your posts to me, I do not feel very good after interacting with you. I will continue to search my own heart about my feelings, and in the meanwhile, that's all I have to say about it.

Carolyn


That is not true, and you know it, Carolyn

However, it has answered something that has been a concern.

As to you why, suddenly, you have been cold to me, after YOUR email telling me that if I were to post anything again that was incorrect on the board, then you would let me know by PM and not straight onto the board.

To which I replied, that I did not mind either way, that you could point out something Spiritually Incorrect on my part,

either out onto the Board, or by PM, as my only true concern was that I did not lead anyone astray.

In light of what you say, now, I am happy to post the PM from you, and to you, which was the last PM's either way between us, onto the board, for the sake of honesty.

I have prayed about this, as your cutting me off, puzzled me, as I did not understand why.

The Lord always brings things out into truth.

And you never ever said that to me, you may have thought it, in your defensiveness, though why that should be, was a puzzle, which I truly understand, as you shared on your thread entitled "defencelessness" -- though I did not know it was a personal thread, so I posted onto it about my parents, as for me, it was validation and enlightenment, about my parents.

So I offered it up to the Lord, that I know, in the Bible.


Remember, I never Pm'd you, it was you who iniated PMing with me, with scripture.


Your recent coldness toward me was confusing, but, I chose to understand you, with compassion.

In Christ, in truth,

Leah

Leah,

Now I hear you calling me a liar.

The last post which you directed to me was on your thread re: Hypercompetitiveness, here: 
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6914.0

And here was my reply:

Leah,

You may be correct... perhaps I'm not understanding.
Perhaps I do understand, but simply disagree with you.

I guess that's irrelevant.

You are not alone in feeling alien or in sensing that poularity often comes at the cost of never standing up for ones self.
I don't even care so much anymore about standing up for myself... but I surely don't want to be blown over by someone else's windstorm.

Mostly, I don't like the way I feel after reading your last post here, so I will work that out within myself and leave it at that.

Carolyn

Yes, I told you that I did not feel very good after reading your post. And now I am feeling that same way again. I am not blaming that on you, I am simply acknowledging my feelings and my need to deal with them.

I have never emailed you.

I have pm'd you.
You have pm'd me.

My turning off all pm's had nothing to do with "cutting you off" or suddenly treating you coldly. That was a personal decision which I made last December, based on a number of different factors.
I don't know why you presumed that it was a personal affront, but you could have asked.

As to the rest of your post here, I don't even know what it is that you're alleging I never, ever said to you.

Carolyn

[Leah]

Dear Carolyn,

With all due respect, you PM'd me, last year, in the midst, remember?

In Christ, in truth,

Leah

Dear Carolyn,

With respect, this was about PM's only.

Leah

[Certain Hope]

Dear Carolyn,

With all due respect, you PM'd me, last year, in the midst, remember?

In Christ, in truth,

Leah

Dear Carolyn,

With respect, this was about PM's only.

Leah

Leah,

In that event, I have already responded to you about pm's, as previously posted:

Leah,

I do not recall every pm'ing you to tell you that I thought Gabben was baiting or gaslighting you.
I do recall pm'ing you to say that I felt you were under seige by the enemy of our souls, Satan, who is a master of all manner of deception, including gaslighting and baiting.

If I did indeed pm you last year to say that Gabben was guilty of these things, then I was wrong,
and I must apologize to both you and to Lise... because even if I thought that, at the time, I should not have said so to you.

On that note, I will repeat that my pm's are turned off, and have been so, all members blocked, for some time, and for one very important  reason - as I have stated before - I do not trust myself and my own level of maturity to maintain a right heart, mind, attitude, and speech at all levels... yet.

In truth, Leah, and in Christ, and as I told you the last time I replied to one of your posts to me, I do not feel very good after interacting with you. I will continue to search my own heart about my feelings, and in the meanwhile, that's all I have to say about it.

Carolyn

[Leah]

Dear Carolyn,

The last PM, that you  sent to me, regarding my spiritually incorrect book posting, was January 19 2008
not last December.

Leah

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Would you please be so kind as to Confirm that I have nothing whatsover to do with the personage of "Yamen"

Yamen is Shy, Watcher, Observer, and a host of other names--not Leah.  I have deleted Yamen's message (see Yamen's post for the reason).

Best,

Richard

[Certain Hope]

Dear Carolyn,

The last PM, that you  sent to me, regarding my spiritually incorrect book posting, was January 19 2008
not last December.

Leah

Leah,

With all due respect, so what?

Perhaps I turned pm's back on in order to not publicly point out an error? I have, on occasion, removed the block. All that's required is to remove the asterisk from the field - takes but a second.

Clearly, I do not recall the date of the last pm you and I exchanged. I don't see what that has to do with your assertion that I labeled Gabben a gaslighter and baiter in a pm to you last December. In fact, I'd say it has absolutely no relevancy at all.

Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

Post deleted.

Yamen, Shy, Watcher, Observer—and various other names.  I have asked you to post under one name.  You are one person with one view of the world.  I, and many others, would appreciate hearing that view.  Your pretending to be many people all of whom share the same view, however, is not allowed on this board.  E-mail me.

Richard

Whoever you are, Shy, I do hope you'll take Dr. Grossman up on his offer to email him and register with one account. Truly, your voice is important and I, for another, would like to hear more from you.
Also, I wonder about your last choice of names... were you wondering why I said "Amen" to one of Gabben's posts on this thread?

Please join us.

Carolyn

[Leah]

Would you please be so kind as to Confirm that I have nothing whatsover to do with the personage of "Yamen"

Yamen is Shy, Watcher, Observer, and a host of other names--not Leah.  I have deleted Yamen's message (see Yamen's post for the reason).

Best,

Richard

Dear Dr Grossman,

Grateful thanks.

"Shalom"

Sincerely,

Leah

[Gabben]

Thank you Dr. Grossman.

My apologies Leah -- I was wrong.

I am sorry that my suspicion regarding the unknown poster was wrong and that it caused you pain. I never want to hurt you again.

Lise

[Certain Hope]

Once again, not to totally lose track of the original intent of this thread,
Back to the book...

We first addressed the deep human need to bond, and how that may have been disrupted.
I know that was definitely the case for me, as was this second issue.

The second of the four ways in which our development may have been affected is -

2. Our boundaries were not respected.

Boundaries are our spiritual and emotional property lines.
They tell us whre we end, and where others begin.
They help to keep good things in us, and bad things out.
We take responsibility for what is ours, and not for what isn't.
When we are clearly defined, we can carry our own loads, and we know when it's appropriate to help others with their burdens. (Galatians 6:1-5)

Yet our ability say NO can also be sinned against.
We can be hurt in our ability to set limits, establish consequences, and not rescue others.
Here are some ways our boundaries can be injured:

Aggressive control:  someone hurting us if we say no.

Passive control:  someone leaving us if we say no.

Regressive control:  guilt messages if we say no.   (I'd never heard this term, but have felt always that the guilt goes hand in hand with abandonment.

Limitlessness:  someone never saying no to us.

These dynamics are common in most relationships, and are extremely destructive to our ability to conduct our lives responsibly.
But how do boundary injuries hurt our safety?

Basically, if an unbonded person can't take love in, a boundary-less person can't keep love in.
Like a cup with no bottom, the grace and care the boundaryless person receives often cannot stay inside to nourish and sustain her.

Some of the tendancies of boundary-less people are:

... feeling abandoned when there is distance. Inability to stand apart, to be alone, to hold firm in conflict.
(So when they're in an argument with a rageaholic who's screaming like a banshee, boundaryless people are cast into a panic state that they must get out of by complying with the wishes of the screamer!)

... using isolation as their only limit.    (this was all I knew!)

(Often people with weak boundaries will give in repeatedly to some irresponsible or demanding person. Then, out of the blue, they'll pack up and leave the relationship with no warning.
This is because they were unable to set and keep limits at early stages when there were problems. They didn't have the resources to, at the right times, "speak the truth in love".) (Ephesians 4:15)       [ exactly!]

This also destroys our safety. If your boundaries have been injured, you may find that when you are in conflict with someone, you shut down without even being aware of it.
This isolates us from love, and keeps us from taking in safe people.

[Leah]

Thank you Dr. Grossman.

My apologies Leah -- I was wrong.

I am sorry that my suspicion regarding the unknown poster was wrong and that it caused you pain. I never want to hurt you again.

Lise

Dear Lise,

Your apology is sincerely accepted, and I am crying, tears of joy, for answered prayer, that I have waited for, for so long, which is a teaching in itself, as in, to be still and wait upon the Lord.  Which I know you will understand.

Please, let's put everything behind us, and move onwards, afresh, as we both love God, and are His.

It's the only way I know, that is peaceful.

All I ask, is that if in future, I unknowingly post something that is a trigger (after learning today what a trigger is, and does) just please let me know that it is a trigger, and don't think that I have done it on purpose, as I would never do that, in all honesty, with sincerity.

I do make mistakes, as I am imperfect, always have been, and always will be.

Love, Leah

[Certain Hope]

Those of us whose boundaries were not respected, thereby negatively affecting our development, may exhibit the following symptoms:

blaming others, codependency, depression, difficulties with being alone, disorganization and lack of direction, extreme dependency, feelings of being let down,
feelings of obligation, generalized anxiety, identity confusion, impulsiveness, inability to say no, isolation, masochism, overresponsibility and guilt, panic,
passive-aggressive behavior, procrastination and inability to follow through, resentment, substance abuse and eating disorders, thought problems and obsessive compulsive
problems, underresponsibility, and victim mentality.

Whew.

I wasn't going to include that list, till I read through it again and saw that there's not a single thing on there which hasn't been a personal issue at one time or another throughout my own life.
And I wondered - how is it that those closest to me didn't say, whoa - let's see what we can do to work through this, it's killing you!

Well, how could they? They're the ones who failed to instill the proper boundaries in the first place.

And somehow there's peace in that. They weren't malignant, in the beginning... my parents, I mean.
They just expected me to be able to fake my way through life as they had.

What a wake-up this has been.

Carolyn

[Gabben]

We did it!!!!!!!!!!

I'll write more to you later Leah. I'm slacking here at my job and must work.

Your last post was pleasure to read.

Peace and hugs,

Lise

[Gabben]

Carolyn,

I'm going to take the time to read all of this that you wrote and posted regarding the original thread topic. I'll reflect and get back to you later.

Thank you for this subject.

Lise