Author Topic: This Bothers Me  (Read 5361 times)

Overcomer

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2008, 06:53:26 AM »
My mom has actually grown in this area but growing up she used the dear of hell to make my bro and I conform.  I believe we were victims of spiritual abuse but did not know it until much later.  Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way.  It is a shame because he will call me and we will discuss world events in light of the way we were raised but he thinks if he mentions it to friends they will think he is out of his mind.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Leah

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 06:58:15 AM »

Here’s something that I have a hard time with. 

Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply. 

She believes people are hurting, poor, or sick because a) they don’t have enough faith to claim their “blessing” (money, health, perfect life, whatever) and/or b) there is secret “sin” in their lives.  She lives in a senior retirement home and stays away from people who are sick, scared or hurting.  She boasts about this within a religious context, meaning she feels that this type of individual can somehow contaminate her and "destroy her faith" if she is around them.  I do not understand the theological basis for her beliefs, never mind that Jesus Christ spent His time on earth in the dusty streets, helping the hurting, stinking, poor, heartbroken masses.  She flaunts her health, wealth and other temporal blessings and boastfully takes credit for them, since she is on “Jesus’ ” A list.

People like me, the broken-hearted, maimed, financially struggling, goofball, nobodies are getting what they deserve; her “God” sees them as powerless and not worth blessing.

This makes my head  and my heart hurt!  My older sister is just like her.  They don’t know what pain or struggles are….  :cry:
Violet



Dear Violet,

Your posting had a huge impact upon my heart last night.  In my quiet time, my inner thoughts, regarding my personal life experience and observance.  Impacted with such a realization, of what has always bothered me, a great deal, and confusingly so, at times.

Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply.    That's it!  

And, in a nutshell, why I did not fit into that church (as per my story on Spiritual Abuse thread) -- likewise, multitudes of other people could not fit in either.  No chance of being accepted because, we all of us, were not looking for Nsupply (had already ticked off many F Flags, last year) and would question their worldview etc., which was in contrast to the exegesis in the bible.  

The church veered towards wanting only 'important' people, of obvious material status, and cast down, those who were struggling, in life, or with life.  The N persons, had no time at all for the members who needed comfort, support, or solace.  Many times, after my escape, I had been brow beaten for expressing the truth, that they were cruel and manipulative and contolling, in their thoughts delivered, and from their actions.

They did that also, The N persons -- flaunted their health, wealth and other temporal blessings and boastfully took the credit for them, since their were on the “Jesus’ ” A list.  With loud proclamation of sowing seeds of money, with beget more money, a bigger house, a new car.  All the money gave them the blessings, and left the giving people even poorer.  Some went into debt, to sow their seeds, to get out of debt!!!


Fact is, their version of “Jesus” was merely their main source of Nsupply.  

Quite stunned last night, to realize, the harsh reality, the real truth.

Many many thanks.

Love, Leah


The one and only, Jesus Christ, went out of his way to spend His time on earth in the dusty streets, helping the hurting, stinking, poor, and the heartbroken masses.  Hence, The Beatitudes!!

« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 07:09:27 AM by LeahsRainbow »
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Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 07:37:56 AM »
That is really pitiful, Violet. I would rather have the N, who is "out there" strutting their N stuff than your type of N. That is probably the worse type of N( and the hardest to detect). It must be really hard, Violet.I am so sorry.            Ami                   



Thank you, Ami, for your kind reply.  Actually, I have worked through a lot of the bitterness and rage toward my mom.  She is pretty "manageable" but still quite exhausting.  I may have mentioned I visited her this past summer for the first time in 10 years (BTW, discovering this group of wonderful people has really helped assuage some of my conflicting and guilty feelings about my relationship with her, like I just knew it is NOT natural to NOT see your mother in ten years....).  Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to respond....  Violet

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 07:44:15 AM »
-- however, if I was to post this without admitting my own sense of envy at times or jealously I would be a hypocrite. For the most part I find joy in others gifts and successes, but if my own sense of self esteem is down, or as in the past, I have tied my sense of worth to achievements, then I am apt to be prone to feelings of envy at others successes.


Gab


Yes, Gab, I agree with you.  I know how painful it was for me to face the facts of my own feelings about my sister's wealth since my DH and I have always struggled financially.  I remember raging at God once, years ago, "You mean she gets all this here on Earth, AND HEAVEN?!"  I do not feel like that anymore, thank God, and mostly try to be (and usually am) thankful for what I have, except I really, really wish I had a) her housekeeper and b) their swimming pool because I am a really good swimmer and love it and she, my sis, does not even know how to swim!!  Oh, the irony....  V :?

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 07:53:15 AM »
Hi again, Violet,

I agree 100 percent with Gabben's post re: envy.

The false "prosperity gospel" teaching which is so popular today has caused alot of pain to many folks, but my religious mother doesn't buy into that... yet she sounds exactly like your mom when it comes to her view of the downtrodden.
Basically, she seems to think that if they would only straighten up and be as good as she is, they'd be fine.
For those with whom she can't find any particular fault (especially women... and they are very few), she blames their troubles on their spouse.

Carolyn

Hi, Carolyn,
Thanks for the post.  I appreciate your comments and am thinking about what you wrote about your mother.  Why must there always be BLAME?  Why can't it just be about humans being what they are, frail humans?  My Nmom always tries to affix blame, I do not get it....
Is it so she won't have any responsibility to try to help them alleviate some of their pain or offer any practical help?  Do you think this might fit your Nmom?  PS. I have also been wondering if I am traveling down the Blame Game road by revisiting so much of this, this worries me because I had to fight against this for years after ....  I am trying NOT to blame, just trying to put it all in perspective.
Violet

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 07:59:47 AM »

hi again, Violet

Envy sits deep at the root, regarding the "Postive Confession" ~ "Prosperity Gospel"

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734

again, from personal experience in the spiritually abusive chuch, some years ago, now.

Hope this is of a help to you.

Love, Leah


Hi, Leah,
Thank you for taking time to respond.  I will look into the link you provided.  I believe the label "Prosperity Gospel" is what they ascribe to.  I am sickened and shocked by it, but it seems quite pervasive in what passes for "christianity" in the USA, at least what I have personally witnessed.  I do not attend church but I do believe the Bible.  I do not understand how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of entitlement.
Thank you for the link, Leah, I will look at it a little later.  Violet

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 08:02:09 AM »
What an amazing insight, Violet:

Quote
Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply.

Thank you for this...it has really flashed in my mind, illuminating a lot of old painful confusing things.

Glad you're here...I'm sorry for what you're going through.

Hops
Hello, Hops, thank you for commenting.  Thank you for welcoming me.  I appreciate your words of sympathy.  V

Leah

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 08:08:17 AM »

hi again, Violet

Envy sits deep at the root, regarding the "Postive Confession" ~ "Prosperity Gospel"

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734

again, from personal experience in the spiritually abusive chuch, some years ago, now.

Hope this is of a help to you.

Love, Leah


Hi, Leah,
Thank you for taking time to respond.  I will look into the link you provided.  I believe the label "Prosperity Gospel" is what they ascribe to.  I am sickened and shocked by it, but it seems quite pervasive in what passes for "christianity" in the USA, at least what I have personally witnessed.  I do not attend church but I do believe the Bible.  I do not understand how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of entitlement.
Thank you for the link, Leah, I will look at it a little later.  Violet

Oh, thank you, Violet

Rare for me to receive such affirmation and validation, breathe of fresh air, and life, for me.  I am grateful.

I resonate, once again, with everything you have just shared.  I too believe the Bible, and enjy my study time, and try my best to be, as a born anew Christian, each day; to follow the true actual teachings.  Never again, with I surrender myself to any church organization or whatever.  There is only one whom I surrender to.

Likewise, it baffles me, how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of grandiose entitlement.

Humility, of heart and action, is clearly, the thread woven throughout.

Many many thanks.

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

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Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 08:17:42 AM »
  Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way. 

Thank you for writing, Overcomer.  My personal view about Christ is He came to do just what He said He did, not to give everyone on the A list a Mercedes Benz.  I believe the first words out of His mouth when assuming His public ministry were something like, "I came to heal the broken hearted, to set the captives free, to restore sight to the blind, to bring good news to the poor, to liberate those that are bruised...."  Sorry, a paraphrase and I hope I am not coming across as preachy.  In other words, IF Christ was truly the Son of God, He came on a mission, and the mission if I am reading it correctly is one of rescue, help, wholeness, restoring, and everything that is GOOD, like setting us free from the inner things that are destroying us, such as envy, rage, bitterness, anger, hopelessness, hatred, in short everything that is BAD.  Forgive me if I step on anyone's toes, these are just my inner thoughts, I am not a church goer but I like reading the Bible very much.  Even though I do not understand most of what is in the Bible, I DO believe these words are true, what do you think?  Is this a realistic view?  Violet

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 08:19:53 AM »
Yes, indeed, envy.  It is so corrosive and eats into people.
..

Best to all
Hermes
Hello, Hermes, I agree with you, envy is corrosive, never thought about it like that, really.  Also bitterness which goes hand in hand with envy, IMHO.  Thank you for commenting.  Best thoughts....  Violet

Leah

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2008, 08:22:36 AM »
  Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way. 

Thank you for writing, Overcomer.  My personal view about Christ is He came to do just what He said He did, not to give everyone on the A list a Mercedes Benz.  I believe the first words out of His mouth when assuming His public ministry were something like, "I came to heal the broken hearted, to set the captives free, to restore sight to the blind, to bring good news to the poor, to liberate those that are bruised...."  Sorry, a paraphrase and I hope I am not coming across as preachy.  In other words, IF Christ was truly the Son of God, He came on a mission, and the mission if I am reading it correctly is one of rescue, help, wholeness, restoring, and everything that is GOOD, like setting us free from the inner things that are destroying us, such as envy, rage, bitterness, anger, hopelessness, hatred, in short everything that is BAD.  Forgive me if I step on anyone's toes, these are just my inner thoughts, I am not a church goer but I like reading the Bible very much.  Even though I do not understand most of what is in the Bible, I DO believe these words are true, what do you think?  Is this a realistic view?  Violet


Chiming in ........ As a Bible reader and believer .......... Absolutely!     

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Hermes

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2008, 08:28:43 AM »
Indeed yes, Violet.  Lots of people are fond of second-guessing Jesus LOL.  He seems to me to have been a very sensible, and very charitable, person.
I don't go to church either and well, a long time ago, I had to learn all the gospels off by heart, whether I wanted to or not . L.

A new local priest here has a large 4X4, a fancy rig.  Someone asked me had he been to call.  I smiled, and said I doubt it, seeing as I had said to someone, who no doubt brought the news back to him: "well, to the best of my knowledge Jesus entered Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (and a borrowed donkey at that).  He did not enter on what was probably the 4X4 equivalent back in those days, a fancy Roman chariot drawn by 4 magnificent matching horses".  

I sometimes think: "what would Jesus say if he came back here now".  Shake his head I should think, and leave as quickly as he could!  LOL

Hermes

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2008, 08:30:53 AM »

Likewise, it baffles me, how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of grandiose entitlement.

Humility, of heart and action, is clearly, the thread woven throughout.

Many many thanks.

Love, Leah


Hello, Leah,
Yes, it baffles me as well, and makes we wonder if Narcissism is more widespread than I realize?  How could these beliefs become so mainstream?  Greed and envy are at the heart of it.  I remember once many years ago, after trying to explain to my sister why I could not believe the way she did, that I did not want anything to do with a religion that was actively encouraging me to be more greedy, since I was always fighting against my own inner desires for material gain, but she did not understand what I was trying to say.  V

Hermes

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2008, 08:36:07 AM »
Well, Violet, we live in a consumer society, where there is huge pressure to consume more, advertising, all the rest of it.  There are many selfish people (not necessarily narcissistic), out there, people who are easily influenced by every passing fad, so are so insecure that they feel owning material things will make them happier/better. 

All the best
Hermes

Violet

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Re: This Bothers Me
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2008, 08:37:51 AM »

A new local priest here has a large 4X4, a fancy rig.  Someone asked me had he been to call.  I smiled, and said I doubt it, seeing as I had said to someone, who no doubt brought the news back to him: "well, to the best of my knowledge Jesus entered Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (and a borrowed donkey at that).  He did not enter on what was probably the 4X4 equivalent back in those days, a fancy Roman chariot drawn by 4 magnificent matching horses". 

I sometimes think: "what would Jesus say if he came back here now".  Shake his head I should think, and leave as quickly as he could!  LOL

Hermes

Hermes, I was going to reply with: "LOL," but that simply does NOT do justice to your comments, so here goes:

Ha, Ha, ha, hee, hee, heh, a ha ha ha!!  Tears squeezing out, and hee, hee, hah HAH, HA....hee, hee, hee.......  Thanks for the belly laugh, I think I really needed that, wow, humor really DOES help a lot doesn't it?  I do hope your comments made it back to that priest with the fancy rig....   This made my day!  Violet