Pregnant N sent me away

[hardtotrust]

Hi Izzy!

I don't feel time is flying by. On the contrary, that is part of the problem, I just can't wait to end this (at least what can be determined by the paternity).

As you said, I can't help making plans, but everytime I follow that path, I have to stop. So my mind keeps dancing around many possible scenarios, from one extreme to the other.

After what happened today, I got a lot calmer, because the possibilities narrowed a little. It looks like (at least for now) she isn't going to stop me completely from seeing the baby, if it is mine. One of the things that I was consumed by was that it could become a very frightening legal dispute. Now it is possible that it can be avoided. Let's wait and see.

Also, it looks like she still maintains officially that I'm the father (her aunt phoned her and when she learned that I was with her, she phoned me to invite me to lunch and it was a very friendly talk - her family, apart from mother, brother and sister, has some nice people).

Also, one of the things that has helped me feel this low, is that I have concluded, after this last experience last year, that my love life (including here my parents) has been a complete and total failure. And feeling this failure, at my age, not having kids, with the possibility that I was only used while she managed to to get pregnant or that I was only used and now I have a lost baby (lost to her manipulation and N), I got somewhat desperate, seeing nothing good ahead. I feel like I lost my opportunity while I was fighting my emotional issues and now it is too late in my life to achieve what I see most people already have around my age.

Your observation about N-Moms is very important. Before she got pregnant (and still now) many people said that she will change, that pregnancy changes women. Well, I guess if that were true for Ns, then we wouldn't have N-Moms, would we? So I had to get real about that.

Probably the baby will suffer. But if it turns out like her, maybe not. She's oblivious. Nothing reaches her. She lives in her perfect world with her perfect family, and there are no problems to care about. That's one of my fears, that I won't be able to reach my daughter.

Thank you!

Hugs!

[Ami]

Dear Hardtotrust,
 I can really hear deeper messages from your FOO, in your voice,such as 'You will never have life's riches", "You will always be  a"loser", etc. I hear very deep messages of pain. That is the place where you have to start your healing,IMO, looking at these deep messages and challenging their validity.
 Papillion talks about this, I think. He had to see himself as HE was, not as his family told him he was. That is what I am talking about, dear friend.
 I  have tasted all the good things life has to offer and I was left alone and dying b/c of my M's mesages ,in my head, which I believed. They overrode all of my successes.
 Everytime I reached one of life's milestones, college graduation, graduate school, marriage, two beautiful sons, nice house, etc, I thought I would "arrive", feel good about myself, but it never,ever worked. In fact, the more success I had , the WORSE I got b/c I realized that it was not helping me.
 I gave up totally ,once my sons could drive. I did not need to take them places and so I just gave up and stopped trying all the activities I had done before. I had friends,parties, was in a dance group, went to church,etc. I just gave up b/c I could not get out of"gray" and 'numb" and I had tried it ALL,IMO.
 I am saying all this to say that even if you had a wonderful wife and a wonderful baby,in the best possible circumstances, it would not touch the deeper pain, I don't think.
 The deeper pain is where your healing needs to be, as mine was.
 Now, I am healing. God sent a person to love me. I needed "first aid ",badly, and a flesh and blood person came in to my life to love me,unconditionally. Then, I was able to get God's love,more, b/c I experienced  a human unconditional  love.
  Ask God to heal you and send the people you need to help you.
  Trust me, YOU have value. Believe me, hardtotrust,until you can see it for yourself.     Love and a Big Hug     Ami

((((((((((Hardtotrust)))))))))))

[hardtotrust]

Please be very careful that you don't decide anything definite until it's a truth, My saying is, "The money's in the bank when the money's in the bank". Until then, anything can happen. Watch for game playing.

Very sensible advice, but right now I feel like a puppet, waiting for its puppeteer. Trying to get real.

And I'm sorry about your entire love life. I can run a race with you there, but have had more years to deal with the unfairness of life. Perhaps you can go easier on yourself and think happy plans for your future to fix that problem and keep your mind from twisting into a knot otherwise.

Ready for the race! 

Thanks. I'm touched by your words. I understand their weight, coming from your experience, from someone who has been there and knows what I am going through. I'm listening.

If you are not aware, the baby is now taking on the personality, feelings, etc. of the mother. At first I found this difficult to believe, but now I can.

I always think about that. But that frightens me when I think about what the baby is taking on indirectly from me. That's one of the reasons a few weeks ago I sent her a message sending good wishes to the baby. Trying to ease any tension.

It would be so much nicer to be happily in love with a sane woman and have your baby together, wouldn't it? but then you might be written up in the Guiness Book of Records!
Keep a happy thought
Hugs
Izzy

Thank you, Izzy!

I can really hear deeper messages from your FOO, in your voice,such as 'You will never have life's riches", "You will always be  a"loser", etc. I hear very deep messages of pain. That is the place where you have to start your healing,IMO, looking at these deep messages and challenging their validity.
 Papillion talks about this, I think. He had to see himself as HE was, not as his family told him he was. That is what I am talking about, dear friend.

That's extremely difficult to me. I guess I still consider my N's authority figures. In a way, I still expect them to tell me what to do and to think. Sometimes I really suspect that I am an inverted narcissist.

Talking about FOO, the posts here helped me notice that one of the situations I'm reenacting is the one in which they get close to me, promise things, take what they need from me, and then go away, leaving me empty, feeling more needy than before (and then there are many "friends" that will tell me to be more understanding).

I  have tasted all the good things life has to offer and I was left alone and dying b/c of my M's mesages ,in my head, which I believed. They overrode all of my successes.
 Everytime I reached one of life's milestones, college graduation, graduate school, marriage, two beautiful sons, nice house, etc, I thought I would "arrive", feel good about myself, but it never,ever worked. In fact, the more success I had , the WORSE I got b/c I realized that it was not helping me.
 I gave up totally ,once my sons could drive. I did not need to take them places and so I just gave up and stopped trying all the activities I had done before. I had friends,parties, was in a dance group, went to church,etc. I just gave up b/c I could not get out of"gray" and 'numb" and I had tried it ALL,IMO.

I feel like that! I don't want to do anything, because deep down it will always be the same and I won't get what I really wanted in the first place.

I am saying all this to say that even if you had a wonderful wife and a wonderful baby,in the best possible circumstances, it would not touch the deeper pain, I don't think.
 The deeper pain is where your healing needs to be, as mine was.

Wow! Great remark! Listening to you, now, it is quite obvious to me that I'm feeding an illusion that if all that happened, everything would be alright. But we know better... You are right. I have to think more about it.

Now, I am healing. God sent a person to love me. I needed "first aid ",badly, and a flesh and blood person came in to my life to love me,unconditionally. Then, I was able to get God's love,more, b/c I experienced  a human unconditional  love.

I'm very happy to hear that!

Thank you, Ami!

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

Gosh Hardtotrust, what a rollercoaster ride of emotion. I can't really add atm to what Izzy and Ami have just said, and everyone else on this thread. I can only think that you're in for a very 'interesting'  time ahead. What lay before you is yet to unfold. Plenty of relaxation and thinking time required I suspect. Your early primary caregivers role in your personal self issues is another whole world of understanding you'll no doubt unravel, as well, as time goes on. I sometimes wonder that more of us aren't chronically depressed.

My thoughts are with you,

Papillon


"Suffering by nature or chance never seems so painful as suffering inflicted on us by the arbitrary will of another.”
Arthur Schopenhauer

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

Just checking in to say,"Thinking about you and I hope you're handling all the stuff."

Papillon

[Ami]

Just thinking of you, Hardtotrust
How are you doing, today?                                                                Warmly,   Ami

[hardtotrust]

Gosh Hardtotrust, what a rollercoaster ride of emotion. I can't really add atm to what Izzy and Ami have just said, and everyone else on this thread. I can only think that you're in for a very 'interesting'  time ahead.

Yep, can't complain my life is boring right now.

I will try to focus a little more on the relaxation time and understanding of myself.

I’m going through cycles, some excruciating moments, some moments a little calmer, as I feel now.

These days I’m thinking the baby is mine, need some reminders to be more cautious.

Yesterday she called me to find out which week of her pregnancy she is at... She is going to have an ultrasound and this one is mostly intended to determine the sex of the baby. So I had to tell her which week of her pregnancy this is and suggest a day to have the exam. The last one gave a 90% chance it is a girl, which was our first choice.

On Sunday there was a little girl at my church, she has some kind of problem, like a liquid in her brain, she was in a special wheelchair. Lovely girl. At one moment she extended her arm to me, it was very sweet. I felt I was ready to receive the baby, even if it is not 100% healthy.

Many people don’t understand. A “friend’ who is a “therapist” thinks that the only problem is that I still love her, won’t even listen to me. She doesn’t understand the number of issues behind all this and, more important, what the baby means.

19 weeks today. 21 to go. Almost halfway.

Thank you, Papillon. Thank you, Ami.

[Hopalong]

Hi HTT,
Forgive me for being a spoilsport but these indefinite terms got my adrenalin leaping. I guess for me, when it comes to parental access to a child, I would rely on nothing less than a concrete legal document and court authority. It's just too important to let tenous emotional assurances rule.

It looks like (at least for now) she isn't going to stop me completely from seeing the baby, if it is mine. One of the things that I was consumed by was that it could become a very frightening legal dispute. Now it is possible that it can be avoided. Let's wait and see.

Let's not wait and see! Let's go see a lawyer and ask what steps need to be done now...

hugs
Hops

[Gabben]

Hi Hardtotrust,

Well I am slowly working my way through this thread. I'm on about page 6. While reading I have developed respect for you and admiration for your genuine courage and integrity.

It is also apparent to me that you have done a lot of soul searching, healing and maturing throughout your life time.

Sometimes I have to wonder if a cigar is not just a cigar, meaning that we do unconsciously attract relationships and situations that parallel our childhood drama or the dynamic of our family but sometimes things just happen and it hurts.

Your brave.

How many days left?

((((((((hardtotrust)))))))

It is good to have you here on the board.

Gab

[hardtotrust]

I guess for me, when it comes to parental access to a child, I would rely on nothing less than a concrete legal document and court authority. It's just too important to let tenous emotional assurances rule.

Let's not wait and see! Let's go see a lawyer and ask what steps need to be done now...

Hi Hops!

I agree with you! Every possible legal measure should be taken as soon as possible. But in my case, right now, there is none. All I can do is to get ready for the different possible scenarios. At this moment, the main doubt is if she will accept the DNA exam or if I will have to go to court to force it. Together with my lawyer, we are already studying the legal measures that will be taken if she doesn't agree with the exam.

Thank you for not letting me be passive, Hops!

Well I am slowly working my way through this thread. I'm on about page 6. While reading I have developed respect for you and admiration for your genuine courage and integrity.
It is also apparent to me that you have done a lot of soul searching, healing and maturing throughout your life time.

I'm moved by your words, Gab.  They mean a lot to me, especially today.

145 days to her due date!

Thank you very much for such kind words!

[hardtotrust]

Little update:

As I said before, she phoned me yesterday to learn which week of the pregnancy she is at. I instructed her and explained which day it would be better to have the ultrasound in order to determine if it is a boy or a girl.

Today she pops up at my work. 

She's never been there before.

She is signing a contract with the government branch I work at. As she was at the building, she visited me.

During our talk, suddenly she tells me: "So, you can see the ultrasound later on the video cd, OK?"

Alright, one more punch. I ask "I guess tomorrow is not my day, so?" She says she has invited her mother, aunts, grandmother etc.

We talk a little more, I say goodbye. As I am walking away, she says "You can go if you want". I turn around and walk away.

Later she sends a message saying she sometimes acts coldly and invites me to go. I don't answer. She phones me later asking if I will go. I answer "We have already talked about it" (her usual answer to my every attempt to talk). She asks if that means I won't go. "We have already talked about it". She laughs, I say goodbye.

Later she sends another message "By 'We have already talked about it' do you mean you will wait for the delivery and DNA? My baby is a blessing". Answer: "Strange thing to say it's a blessing and prevent the father from being close, taking this connection away from the baby".

I was really upset today. I can't promise, but I'll try to get more distant again. I'm thinking again about the rational path: wait for the birth and have the DNA exam.

This week it was really hard preventing myself from buying pregnant clothes to her and things for my PB . I am also putting on hold returning to singing and guitar lessons.

[papillon]

Hi Hardtotrust,

There is so much on your plate. So many people with so many different view points. Your friend, the therapist sees it her way. It's like the 5 blind men and the elephant analogy. Do you know that one? One feels it's side and says "it's just like a wall". The next one feels it's trunk an says "no, it's like a fire hose". The next one feels it's tail and says "no it's not, it's like a rope." The next one feels it's leg and says "no, it's like a tree trunk". The next one feels it's ears and says "no, no,no it's like a fan."

All our different angles are valid from our own personal understanding and personal viewpoints, but only you know all of your complexities.

Hoping you find some peaceful time to think and sort it all out in a way that works for you, and hopefully make time to exercise, sauna and relax.



Papillon

It is exercise alone that supports the spirits, and keeps the mind in vigor.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

[hardtotrust]

Thanks Papillon!

I was just thinking of you and reading some of your posts.

I really appreciate everything I have heard here. Yes, there are many different viewpoints, but I think they all apply, if not now, a moment later, as the situation changes. They complement each other.

Sauna... I don't even remember the last time I went to one. Good idea!

Thank you!

[Hopalong]

Together with my lawyer, we are already studying the legal measures that will be taken if she doesn't agree with the exam.

Whew. I'm really glad to hear this, HTT...

I think you're right, that the rational approach is going to be better for you.
So much sturm und drang doesn't help you prepare either for fatherhood or for stepping into the next chapter of your life as a not-yet-father.

Either way, what matters is to build the new belief that you can cope, and not just cope, but find happiness.

Hops

[debkor]

Hi HTT,


I'm so sorry to hear what you have been going through.  So much on your plate. 

I have been reading through your post and I was wondering do you know everything about the Dr's and her pregnancy? 

I don't know how old you both are but I did notice that you say she was getting near age to make the decision to have children now.

I know this is a long shot, long long shot but!!  Do you think she had any testing? Like these.

Amniocentesis / Chorionic Villus Sample (CVS) Prenatal Paternity Test

I had both.

I had the amniocentesis after my first child being a trisomy #18 and had the CVS with my last child because of my age 38. 
Now this was voluntary test but I took it to make sure my baby was ok.

Just wondering because then you can establish paternity but I don't think you can court order her to do it.  It can be risky.

Love
Deb